Anyone Have A Rb25 Highflow From "sliding Performance"?

[Dale FZ1]

In effect Gary, the cause of the extensive/expensive failure you documented here was a car poorly specified/upgraded for track use?

It gives clear warning to those wanting to do some track work that a suitably enlarged/baffled sump is a must for engine life in that environment. I can't ignore that regardless of whether he had a turbo failure, a rooted big end was going to mean the end of day and engine out repair job. It just so happened that his overall engine spec meant there was a multiplication of failures (and expense).

I agree that the BB construction offers service life superiority - my understanding from literature sourced in the early 90s was THAT was the primary reason Garrett sunk money into the technology. Performance benefits were evidently viewed as an added bonus rolled into the package.

We should consider that manufacturers involved in rally use turbos sourced from companies other than Garrett (eg. Mitsubishi, IHI) and those running Group N production class would be using series production plain bearing turbos as per their homologation papers. Turbocharger reliability does not seem to be a problem in that competition category.

FWIW, my money is with a BB upgrade, but I have no experience with Slide's product. I'm not sure if Slide has made any claims that he will equal the overall power/response ability of BB units, just that "normal use" (my description) reliability is assured provided that full flow/pressure oil supply is given to the unit. That stands to reason given that the assembly is really meant to be floating and spinning in a film of oil without metal-metal contact. Technically very different to the BB core.

I would like to see Slide accept the offer of a back-to-back test; surely an interesting experiment. I suggest that it would be something of a Dutch auction if turbos with big differences in spec were compared, but Slide should have a reasonable idea of the rated capabilities of his product (as do other sellers).

Take up the offer, Slide. If a typical GCG (or other) unit is rated @ 420 - 450hp then surely you have something equivalent? At the prices you have secured a nice little piece of the market, and good for you. It appears there is an opportunity to cement that position.

cheers

[Cubes]

Realistically its half the price.

As with everything its up to the individual and what trade offs they are willing to put up with. An extra 1k in the pocket or a slightly better spooling turbo. A little like rebuilding an rb25 or rb30.

Myself.. After thinking long and hard I couldn't bring myself to purchasing a GCG turbo for the given price they ask of $1950.

Tim Possingham (x owner of rpm and has been in multiple mag reviews. remember the stock ic vs fmic pressure drop test?) years ago had a little turbo that I believe used the VLT style turbine housing, I believe it was extrude honed hence the price, the setup cost ~$2900 but cracks 300rwkw.

I would prefer to grab a genuine garrett item (gt30 or 35 with atp internal gate setup) if I am looking at paying around 2k for a turbo as for the little extra more over the gcg item. But where do you end lol... I may as well go on to say for a little extra more I should go external gate as its better.

All though $1750 is starting to get close to what I would pay its still not close enough.

[paulr33]

whilst i do agree with some of the comments

looking at an off the shelf garrett

say in cubes example gt30 or 35

then what manifold, dump, gate, flange does it use

and waht about oil and water lines

all of these have ot be taken into consideration and add onto the cost

all of a sudden the 1800 turbo is now a 2600 turbo kit

[Cubes]

whilst i do agree with some of the comments

looking at an off the shelf garrett

say in cubes example gt30 or 35

then what manifold, dump, gate, flange does it use

and waht about oil and water lines

all of these have ot be taken into consideration and add onto the cost

all of a sudden the 1800 turbo is now a 2600 turbo kit

With regards to the manifold.. stock.. ATP offer a t3 bolt up 5 bolt that uses their custom internal gate setup. How well it really works I have nfi.

but yes thats the trade off.. At least one could be assured the gt30 would crack 270rwkw where as from what I've seen the GCG's struggle to crack 250rwkw. For example... An auto r33 I know of has hit 220rwkw on 14psi (sure its an auto so power is down a little) then there's a few others with manuals that have only managed 240rwkw (one R34 I know of that has 260 dur. tomie cams) before det sets in.

But as I said.. where does one stop.. we could go on and on saying this is better than that but at what cost.

There will always be those that are only willing to spend 1k, then those that are willing to stretch another 1k for just that little bit better and then those that will spend yet another 1 maybe 2 or 3k.

This conversation really is a little silly... So far Slides turbo's have proven reliable, we must compare apples with apples.

Most turbo places offer a bush type highflow? What do GCG Offer?

If they start blowing seals or bearings die then there is a place for discussion. At the moment they really cannot be bagged.

I think I am a little baised as I've seen how Bl4ck32's well put together bush turbo can do, and thats spool like a stock turbo yet provide so much more go. Hell it even spools better than my VG30DET turbo.

[paulr33]

sure it makes power, but how much more lag is induced ?

[Cubes]

I really don't believe bush has *much* of an influence on lag.

There's another well built turbo that has springed to mind. Whatsisname's bush vlt style turbo that made 291rwkw.

That was pulling hard and was all in by 4000rpm. Its a real pitty sau has dropped all the old attachments as there was a good dyno comparison from the same dyno that had Whatsisnames setup plotted against Steve's 323rwkw GT3037S. Whatsisnames had more mid range but obviously Steve's killed it in the top end.

The VG30/R34 turbine on the back of the GCG highflows spool the same as that yet don't quite make the same amount of power.

So it all comes down to the wheels selected etc as to how well it makes power and spools.

What the specs were of that turbo I have no idea, I do believe the Tim Possingham turbo that Freebaggin runs was based on that but slightly better.

From memory Tony Riggioly or however his name is spelt had the turbo put together using his specs.

But there we go again.. we must compare apples with apples, a bush hybrid vlt style turbine housing with different specs is obviously going to spank the gcg if its been designed to make x power.

What I'm trying to get at is I can't see a point in comparing the two turbos.. The GCG item has proven its self to make a solid repeatable 240rwkw, the Slide turbo's will soon also make their place within the market and every one will know what they are capable of.

[pshrdeta]

Another issue I've noticed is that the gcg requires you to send in your own turbo-adding another 300$ to the price in that you can't sell the turbo you already have-making it over double the price

[dangerman4]

1 - $150 vg30 turbo

2 - send to gcg and pay $1800

3 - they convert it into a gt30 using the vg30 ehaust housing

4 - bolts straight back in original position same dump etc

5 - get tuned.. 275 kws at the wheels full boost by 3200rpm

[Cubes]

Dangerman4,

Unfortunately this isn't the case.

The std gcg items behind a manual generally are all in by 3500rpm or so where as the VG30/R34 turbine housings are in by close to 4000rpm. And 275rwkw I believe is unrealistic and will only lead to dissapointment. Speak to GCG, expect 250rwkw.

Either way.. They are two different turbo's at different price points. How can they be compared.

As I said earlier...

There will always be those that are only willing to spend 1k, then those that are willing to stretch another 1k for just that little bit better and then those that will spend yet another 1 maybe 2 or 3k.

The turbo's are aimed at a different customer.

[dangerman4]

Dangerman4,

Unfortunately this isn't the case.

The std gcg items behind a manual generally are all in by 3500rpm or so where as the VG30/R34 turbine housings are in by close to 4000rpm. And 275rwkw I believe is unrealistic and will only lead to dissapointment. Speak to GCG, expect 250rwkw.

Either way.. They are two different turbo's at different price points. How can they be compared.

As I said earlier...

The turbo's are aimed at a different customer.

i was only letting people know what i have bolted to my auto 33

still with standard cams, although it is at 20psi.

[Cubes]

Yes auto's will a turbo spool earlier than manuals.

You made this post only a month or so ago and stated you run the gt3071r-sp, thats not the gcg highflow item.

As can be seen here at post 33.

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...c=114193&st=20#

and a pic of your turbo.

http://image-cache.skylinesaustralia.com/f...-1145751218.jpg

[dangerman4]

Yes auto's will a turbo spool earlier than manuals.

Its interesting you made 275rwkw as some time ago I spoke to GCG and they told me that 250rwkw is pretty much all I should expect, if I wanted more go for a gt30.

Can you post a dyno sheet as I'm keen to check it out, I have a few laying around here of gcg setups so it will be good to compare. Yours will be the highest output and of all a damn auto.

You made this post only a couple months ago and stated you run the gt3071r-sp, thats not the gcg item?

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...opic=114193&hl=

hey cubes

if you read my post above it clearly states using a gt30 compresser cover on the vg30 exhaust housing

which makes a gt3071r-sp.

for the same price as a high flow it flows a lot more air.

its just a option that i dont think a lot of people know about.

[Cubes]

Ahh yes. My bad, I made an assumption and didn't read it completely.

The route you have taken is much better than using the std comp cover and has been known to make the power you have indicated. I remember there was a bit of a debate regarding the horsepowerinabox turbo's that are essentially the same as what you have.

They use the smallest gt30 and machine up the rb25 or vg30 turbine housings.

Is there any reason you didn't go the higher flowing 76mm 52t or 56t comp wheel?

The 52t 76mm comp wheel is the one HKS use in their HKS3037S.

But yes there is modifications to the inlet and turbo outlet piping required with your setup which people who buy the gcg and slide turbo's want to avoid.

With regards to your spool... Try a different ebc.

[dangerman4]

Ahh yes. My bad, I made an assumption and didn't read it completely.

The route you have taken is much better than using the std comp cover and has been known to make the power you have indicated. I remember there was a bit of a debate regarding the horsepowerinabox turbo's that are essentially the same as what you have.

They use the smallest gt30 and machine up the rb25 or vg30 turbine housings.

Is there any reason you didn't go the higher flowing 76mm 52t or 56t comp wheel?

The 52t 76mm comp wheel is the one HKS use in their HKS3037S.

But yes there is modifications to the inlet and turbo outlet piping required with your setup which people who buy the gcg and slide turbo's want to avoid.

With regards to your spool... Try a different ebc.

yea you have to change the inlet to suit the 4 inch comp cover, but the exhaust bolts straight on.

a have purchased a 18psi actuater so that should solve the boost dropping off.

i will install it in the next few days and then re dyno.

i will post up the results when done

[Cubes]

Can't wait to see the results.. May even sway me back to the idea of a similiar setup as to what you run.

--------

For now with regards to this threads topic.. Speculation is crap, hurts business and could prevent another turbo supplier from selling something that works and is damn cheap, lets wait for results and let it be.

[AlexCim]

What everyone here is overlooking is that the fact that slides turbo is not a DIRECT swap.

The difference between a Japanese bush bearing turbo kit, slides and a gcg is as follows.

When i fitted my GCG... I had to change... ZERO (apart from the copper washers which is given) parts. Every bolt, every nut, everything just went back on.

The japs sell a turbo, they sell it in a kit. THey come with the dumps, elbows, bolts, washers, gaskets etc etc. These kits are 2000+. So the GCG looks more appealing now.

Slides turbo, from what ive read, there needs to be some modification to the oil and water lines and some of the banjo bolts (please correct me if im wrong). This *stress* COULD *stress* bring the cost up a bit. Additionally, *stress* MAY *stress* be overlooked by some people when installing the turbo, especially when its 2nd hand...

I am awaiting some results of tests....

[Sydneykid]

Gary the reason why i asked for the specifications was that it would be like me selling one turbo and trying to compare it to a completely different one, which is the case.

This would obviously give different results and would be like comparing apples to oranges.

To be fair.....Exact internals, exact housings then we can see true numbers and true power differences.

Aaron

Hi Aaron, I thought this was pretty simple. The guys on here are comparing an $890 turbo with a $1750 turbo from GCG, and saying that the $890 turbo is better value for money. So all I wanted to do was stick an $890 turbo on one of my cars and compare it with what it currently makes with the GCG turbo (without changing anything). That will tell the guys whether the $890 turbo is good value for money or not.

I am not really interested in a PERFECT comparison of bush bearing versus ball bearing, Garrett already did that in the graph I posted earlier. Since they sell both plain bearing and ball bearing turbos and have nothing to gain, in this instance I believe Garretts results. For those who missed it;

So send me whatever turbo you have been selling (and will continue to sell) to the guys for $890. I will personally do the R&R of the turbos, I will do the dyno runs and I will publish the results. If your turbo makes within 10% of the current power from 3,000 rpm to 7,000 rpm I will pay you for it, post up the dyno comparison and I will endorse it on SAU in anyway you like.

But if it doesn’t make within 10%, what will you do?

cheers

[Cubes]

What a lot appear to be overlooking is that the slide turbo's are not aimed at the same customer as the gcg highflows.

They are at different price points.

A lot people that buy these slide turbo's would simply not upgrade if it meant they had to pay 2k for a turbo.

For a $400 or so over a stock item or if buying from the wreckers @ the same price one is most likely to go the slide upgrade route.

[Sydneykid]

What a lot appear to be overlooking is that the slide turbo's are not aimed at the same customer as the gcg highflows.

They are at different price points.

A lot people that buy these slide turbo's would simply not upgrade if it meant they had to pay 2k for a turbo.

For a $400 or so over a stock item or if buying from the wreckers @ the same price one is most likely to go the slide upgrade route.

Whilst I agree on the price point difference, I don't agree with you (most unusually) in regard to them not being aimed at the same customer. There are at least 5 guys posting in this thread who are doing the price versus performance comparison. Do I spend $890 in 2 weeks of saving up? Or do I wait for 4 weeks of saving up and spend $1750? I haven't seen anyone say "my turbo is dead today and I only have $890 to spend".

If you really think doing a performance comparison is a waste of time, I won't bother, I have plenty of other things to do.

cheers

[paulr33]

i wanna know how much to rebuild when it fails