Anyone Have A Rb25 Highflow From "sliding Performance"?

[Cubes]

If you really think doing a performance comparison is a waste of time, I won't bother, I have plenty of other things to do.

cheers

Sorry Sk, I did get a little carried away, just a bad hair day.

A performance and response comparison I believe would be awesome.

I don't believe Slide offers a single off the shelf highflow, he offers a few different combinations based on what the customer whats out of the turbo, if its an auto/manual etc.

Then there's to boost question; Wind as much boost in to it until it stops making power?

[discopotato03]

Probably impossible but I'd like to know what the compressor and turbine flow rates are because that tells the story without giving away his specs . Sooner or later someone will buy one and whip the covers off for a seedy photo and measure session and then the cats out . There are limits to what can practically be fitted into the Hitachi's std housings so someones "XTR" type will probably be hard to beat .

Rebuild costs ? If the wheels / centre housing/ turbine shaft are not damaged its a clean up kit and balance job . When the shaft and bearing housing are not reusable or need grinding its going out the door backwards . I agree with Gary , save for twice as long . The fact that Turbo X falls in like a standard one is a huge bonus .

Cheers A .

[otto]

SK is offering to anwser the question burning on everyones lips "how does slides turbo mesure up to the gcg hiflow"

as these are 2 turbos that seem to be a direct replacement to the stockie i think its a fair comparo.....I really hope slide takes up the offer so our questions can be awnsered

I personally would like to upgrade my turbo but want a direct replacement so these two turbos would be my major options..one is alot cheaper and the other is claiming better performance and possibly service life...It would be nice to see a real life (well close to anyhow)comarison of the two.

Sounds like a golden opportunity SLIDE if your turbo is only a little behind the gcg your still on a winner(I surely would strong consider your turbo over the gcg) as your more compeditively priced and imagine if it outperforms it??????

Edited June 12, 2006 by otto

[Slide]

how much is it to rebuild when the bearings fail?

Paul

Providing that the oil line/banjo bolt modification is done the cost of repair is nothing within the warranty time.

Obviously if there is some other contributing factor causing the turbo to fail we will be able to diagnose it.

Another issue I've noticed is that the gcg requires you to send in your own turbo-adding another 300$ to the price in that you can't sell the turbo you already have-making it over double the price

Exactly.

If your turbo is ok and you are just after an upgrade you can sell your turbo on the forums reducing the total "cost" of this turbo even further.

What everyone here is overlooking is that the fact that slides turbo is not a DIRECT swap.

The difference between a Japanese bush bearing turbo kit, slides and a gcg is as follows.

When i fitted my GCG... I had to change... ZERO (apart from the copper washers which is given) parts. Every bolt, every nut, everything just went back on.

The japs sell a turbo, they sell it in a kit. THey come with the dumps, elbows, bolts, washers, gaskets etc etc. These kits are 2000+. So the GCG looks more appealing now.

Slides turbo, from what ive read, there needs to be some modification to the oil and water lines and some of the banjo bolts (please correct me if im wrong). This *stress* COULD *stress* bring the cost up a bit. Additionally, *stress* MAY *stress* be overlooked by some people when installing the turbo, especially when its 2nd hand...

I am awaiting some results of tests....

In no way are we comparing our turbo's to GCG as they are 2 completely different turbo's.

This appears to be a sparking rivalry with Gary and bush bearing turbo's and his fondness for GCG turbo's.

Doing this test will simply and only give a power reading of 2 "DIFFERENT" turbo's.

The oil line and banjo bolt modification is covered extensivly prior to sale and should only cost under $20.

2 Banjo bolts need to have the restrictors drilled out (which anyone can do if they have a drill and a 6mm drill bit and follow the instrictions).

And the oil feed line from the block to the turbo has a restrictor in it (engine side) which needs to be drilled out of the oil ring base and have the top welded back over.

If $20 doesnt make it a bolt on turbo kit then so be it.

If the oil line and banjo bolts are sent to us as some customers have we do it free of charge.

Hi Aaron, I thought this was pretty simple. The guys on here are comparing an $890 turbo with a $1750 turbo from GCG, and saying that the $890 turbo is better value for money. So all I wanted to do was stick an $890 turbo on one of my cars and compare it with what it currently makes with the GCG turbo (without changing anything). That will tell the guys whether the $890 turbo is good value for money or not.

I am not really interested in a PERFECT comparison of bush bearing versus ball bearing, Garrett already did that in the graph I posted earlier. Since they sell both plain bearing and ball bearing turbos and have nothing to gain, in this instance I believe Garretts results. For those who missed it;

So send me whatever turbo you have been selling (and will continue to sell) to the guys for $890. I will personally do the R&R of the turbos, I will do the dyno runs and I will publish the results. If your turbo makes within 10% of the current power from 3,000 rpm to 7,000 rpm I will pay you for it, post up the dyno comparison and I will endorse it on SAU in anyway you like.

But if it doesn’t make within 10%, what will you do?

cheers

Gary as i have said in a previous post this is not a general comparison and would simply be pointing out the difference between 2 DIFFERENT turbo's.

I offered to match the GCG specifications so we can see exactly what difference there would be with everything the same excluding the bearings.

Regarding a Dyno run comparing the 2 different turbo's to compare them and your offer i am more than happy to send you a turbo and allow you to test it and buy it under the above offer.

However keeping in mind the car it will be running on was tuned for the GCG turbo and not one of mine.

Please call me Gary and i would be more than happy to discuss this with you and appreciate the offer of you providing your time.

This brings an example to mind where audio giants have show cars.

The reason why Pioneer Kenwood Clarion Sony etc never compete in sound competitions is simple.

It can go 2 ways

They can look like losers for not having the best performing gear or they can look like winners for having the best.

The underlining fact though is that they will never be the same and obviously perform differently.

I am definately interested though on how my turbo's performs against a turbo twice the cost and as i have said am more than happy to do so and will be happy to discuss this more with Gary.

Gary I am also very interested why you want to compare 2 obviously different turbo's so much without having an apparent connection to GCG.......

Aaron

[tridentt150v]

What everyone here is overlooking is that the fact that slides turbo is not a DIRECT swap.

When i fitted my GCG... I had to change... ZERO (apart from the copper washers which is given) parts. Every bolt, every nut, everything just went back on.

Why does everyone think they have to change their copper washers???

Unless they are shim thin from repeated use, just anneal and re-use, in fact they are almost 100% gauranteed to be better than a 'new' off the shelf item that has been:

1. Work hardened during manufacture.

2. Work hardened during transport.

3. Absorbing O2 from the day they were made until you bolted them in place [which enbrittles them].

If you don't believe me, buy a new one, and compare its 'softness' to one you have annealed, the annealed one wins every time.

Annealed=heat till cherry red and then squelch in cold water.

This means that a GCG doesn't have to cost you that much. Also for the record, my GCG hiflow only cost me $1170 just over 12 months ago. It depends on the turbo model, so not everyone is going to spend $1800 etc.

[BHDave]

Why does everyone think they have to change their copper washers???

Because i'm not going to go out and buy a blow torch for 20 bucks when i can buy 10 copper washers for 50c

[JaFF]

well even for interest sakes I'd like to see this go ahead. I can see where slide is coming from in terms of the differences in the turbos but purely from a price perspective it will be interesting to see just how much difference there is in performance for your money.

Cheers

[Robo's]

This would be an interesting comparison and i would love to see the results. Obviously the CGC is going to win, but by how much?? Not everyone is going to fork out the extra for the CGC but for a small upgrade, these turbos might be ok for some.

Certainly you couldnt compare a dyno comparison with the same tune either. And i would little bit annoyed for Slide if Gary done the dyno testing since he has a strong connection with CGC.

[Sydneykid]

Hi Aaron, in circuit racing we are always looking for something better, if it’s also cheaper that’s a bonus. Not that that is the case in this instance, there is no race application here. As the guys on SAU know I do lots of comparisons, mostly suspension related, but plenty of times I have done other areas of interest. In the race team we have access to lots of equipment, flow benches, dynos (engine and chassis), computer simulation, shock dyno, spring rate tester etc etc. So in some ways I am in unique position as I don’t sell stuff, so I can do unbiased testing to very high standards.

I will emphasise that I have no association with GCG, other than we buy turbos from them and I arranged a Group Buy with them. I have used their ball bearing high flow turbos on a number of cars over the years and found the results to be both satisfactory and duplicate able. I certainly don’t work for GCG or get paid by them in any way.

In this particular instance it is a unique opportunity to compare a 250 rwkw rated plain bearing turbo (sold at a great price) with a similarly rated ball bearing high flow (that some consider the benchmark). Sure Garrett have done a similar comparison, but this time we get a dyno graph on an RB25DET (the most common Skyline engine on SAU). The results will be discussed for a long time, that’s for sure.

Changing tune before and after changing parts is always a debateable point. If you do change tune, there is always the suspicion that the tune is responsible not the part that was changed. Some parts definitely require tuning to take advantage of their different specification. I am not so sure that 2 similarly rated turbos fall into that category. Remembering that what we are looking for here is the difference in power output over a wide rpm range. This will show any boost build differences through that rpm range. Which is 50% of the plain versus ball bearing debate. The other 50% is durability and I am not in a position to test that in a short time frame.

I will not have time to fabricate parts or modify bolts or pipework, so please make sure you send me the turbo and whatever is necessary to do the swap. If that means $910 instead of $890 then so be it.

I will talk to you over the next couple of days, it’s a little hectic around here. We have a new car in the race team, it needs to be ready to race at Oran Park next weekend and it has no suspension in it.

Cheers

[Slide]

Im happy to supply everything required.

[mad082]

This means that a GCG doesn't have to cost you that much. Also for the record, my GCG hiflow only cost me $1320 just under 12 months ago. It depends on the turbo model, so not everyone is going to spend $1800 etc.

i'm pretty sure they stopped making that model. so the $1950 model is the only option available from GCG.

Edited June 13, 2006 by mad082

[AlexCim]

As the guy above said, i replace the washers coz it costs sweet f**k all to do it.

better to be safe than sorry bro

[tridentt150v]

Safe than sorry???? Its better to anneal the washers absolutely no argument end of story. I'd never never use any copper washer before I annealed it, just doesn't make sense. Do a search on copper anealing and why you should do it on the web. There's plenty of reference material explaining why you should anneal.

New washers are NOT ready to be used immediately. If you buy new copper washers, they should be annealed before you use them. They are more likely to fail if you don't anneal them.

Apologies to all, for the [sort of] thread highjacking.

[Cubes]

Gas stove is good enough to bring them up to temp?

[tridentt150v]

Gas stove is good enough to bring them up to temp?

Cubes is correct, copper is very easy to heat up, it is a good conductor [electricity, signal, heat].

You can use your mom's kitchen, a gas heater, a camp stove, oxy acet., a wood fire/heater.

Just take a bit of bent wire and a cup of water to the pub and use their wood fire........lol.

[AlexCim]

Well, for future reference, Ill use new washers and then just anneal them.

[dangerous_daveo]

Cubes is correct, copper is very easy to heat up, it is a good conductor [electricity, signal, heat].

You can use your mom's kitchen, a gas heater, a camp stove, oxy acet., a wood fire/heater.

Just take a bit of bent wire and a cup of water to the pub and use their wood fire........lol.

Mum...

Sorry but that one just really really bugs me.

[stolen_s15]

If the CGC vs Slide hiflow comp goes ahead it would be fantastic. No doubt they are 2 turbos that so many are considering fitting. Would be really great to see a back to back comparison. DO IT!!

[Quinny]

I am looking at getting a hi-flow turbo, and have been looking at the GCG one, but this one has kindled my interest.

I will be running Power Fc, ARC front mount and EBC, along with my 3" into 3.5" exhaust.

I want to run up to 15 psi depending on the fuel system. I would be interested to see the results in a direct comparison between the two.

I think if the bush bearing turbo can be reliable at 14-15 psi as a daily driver, then I think it is definitely worth considering.

[Slide]

Pm replied Ben

The VG30 Highflowed turbo's will happily run at up to 19 psi

Aaron