Anyone Have A Rb25 Highflow From "sliding Performance"?

[Slide]

How can you ensure that shite-loads of oil is able to go thru this turbo (so it doesnt fail), ie what exactly needs to be done? Worried about that factor!

Also, how long should the car idle prior to turn-off after a normal street drive?

cheers.

The Factory oil setup to the turbo has restrictors in the banjo bolts and oil lines.

By removing these it increases the flow of oil through the lines to the turbo and is a vital part of the cooling and lubrication.

The engines oil preasure forces the oil through the dedicated lines which will continue to do so until you have no oil preasure, this could be a result of a few things like underfilling oils to dangerous levels or when the engine is on its last legs which is not hard to tell

As far as lubrication and oil cooling goes aslong as the instructions are followed the waranty stands at 1 year RTB and is a compulsary modification for these turbo's.

It is very simple to remove the restrictors and instructions are given with the turbo at point of sale and have also been previously posted in this thread.

There is no babying period that is really required for these turbos but to prolong the life of your engine it is recommended you let the car come close to opperating temp before giving it a hard time.

And as far as cooling down goes a simple turbo timer set to around 1 minute 30 seconds + will be suffice.

This is recommended regardless of having an aftermarket turbo.

Cheers Aaron

[WogsRus]

4 days left till i go to Europe, Then 2 months of waiting. Upon my return it Skyline time baby, and one of these turbos is my first purchase.

[Tangles]

Cheers Aaron

Ta - excellent info. thankx.

[666DAN]

A nice shiny braided oil feed from Pirtek was $65, flows as much/more as the modded stock one without the hassle of drilling and it looks good as well

[Tangles]

To Satanic & 666 Dan - what made you fellas choose this turbo over say a ball-bearing hiflow? I would have thought that the 2 of you were quite particular about what goes on to your car, ie quality mods etc.

In my case, I try to minimise the $$ I spend, but yet want quality. Im sort of thinking this 'seems' to be a quality piece of kit and flow a lot of air. I also figure that I only drive around 7000kms a year in my Stagea, with say 1000kms of that 'on boost'. Therefore Im thinking the turbo wont have a hard life with me, and might therefore actually last for a fair time and therefore be a cost effective modification....

Just need to sell my bike first! Plus I must add that Aaron has been very upfront with the turbo information and therefore has nothing to hide, sounds good Slide!

[666DAN]

Personally I'm not even phased in the slightest about using the plain bearing, the use of quality parts (garrett core) and the fact it appears to be a well built unit is more than enough peace of mind, also you get a 1 year back to base warrenty.

The real test of how it performs on the car is proven to me day in day out, and I'm extremely happy with it (even though the gf isn't happy with the rapid acceleration)

There has been lots of mention about the bearing not tolerating times of no oil pressure etc etc, but I think even in the example SK gave of the car that stalled and baked the bearing this would have happened with a BB turbo as well, the car wasn't restarted for quite some time and would most probably have damaged a BB core equally. The cost of sorting a plain bearing out though is a lot less though.

If you look after the supporting systems and in this case make sure the oil flow is increased, I can't forsee too many issues with it, unless you thrash the car too hard and stall it lots.

With 7000kms a year I'd say you'll be more than happy as the turbo would remain in as-new condition. I've racked up about 2500kms on it now, runs as good as gold....as expected.

[Tangles]

^^

Ta - thats an excellent writeup. Im leaning this way for sure! Thanks mate

[Slide]

Thanks for the great feedback guys makes me happier waking up in the morning knowing everyone is happy

[Malecki]

I just bought one of these for my rb25det. Aaron is a top bloke and goes through every detail with you, Satanic and the boys at NBP will be fitting it for me this weekend, i will let you guys know how it turns out

[discopotato03]

Aron I'm not really sure what you mean by problems with shaft/housing/bush dimensions , I'm a bit rusty with plain bearing cartridges but I thought all those old T3's/TB31's/TA34's and small shaft TO4's used 1/4 shafts and a standardish bushes . I suppose the plain bearing T25/28's used a smaller shaft - um ...

As I'm sure you know buying Garrett cartridges can be cheaper than assembling one from new components though prices can be all over the place - worse than supermarket chains !

I know Garrett has been pushing what they call T3/T4R ball bearing cartridges cheaply in the US , they are basically the 76T TA 34 turbine with a choise of TO4E compressors - water cooled as well .

One different one actually uses a TO4 P trim turbine with the old 60T TO4S (60-1) compressor .

I sort of reckon the TA34 family are a good look for high flows but the GT turbines and compressors are far better aero wise . Having said that the Buick GN's were not so bad in some ways ....

I don't want to sound like a smart alec but those housing pics are Hitachi RB25 or VG30 , the only thing T3 is the mounting flange .

Gary's experience of more power EVERYWHERE with decent turbos is absolutly correct , mainly because the turbines in the Hitachi's are so woefully small . Anything you can do to offset exhaust restriction pays off from idle up , its to do with pumping losses and reversion I believe . When you start to compare the GT BB turbines with the ceramic Hitachi's they look much larger as do the passages in their native GT turbine housings . Anyone that ever put a 2530 on an RB25 found the difference hard to believe particulary since its compressor is slightly smaller than the Hitachi's - different story on the turbine side though .

Anyhow bush or ball I think response is better when the spec is slightly generous on the hot side and a bit conservative on the cold side . Had I realized this years ago my bitzer hybrid plain bearing turbos would have been more effective . On a last note take every old 8 blade TO4B compressor and hit it with a hammer , they should never be used in petrol engine hybrids .

Cheers .

[humble]

Hi All

i have to apologise for all who will see this post as being useless although i would like to ask discopotato03

to please break down that last post in english for all of whom (me ) have no idea what that meant..

if you could please put itt in sort and sweet phrases i.e. i dont like the turbo or i like the turbo and this is why

that would be much appreciated for the newbs to the turbo world

thanks Ian

Edited June 6, 2006 by humble

[discopotato03]

1) Early 70's T3's share the same turbine shaft and bush bearing dimensions with std shaft T4 turbos , larger series T4's used larger diametre turbine shafts and bush bearings to resist breakage with larger series compressors . Plain bearing T25's and T28's were based on the smaller T2's internal core and shaft dimensions . I was curious to know if someone was attempting to use the T3 sized shaft and bearings in a T2/25/25 core .

2) As I said if Garrett plain bearing cartridges are going cheap it can be more cost effective to go buy/bolt rather than rebuild a worn cartridge . Its common to find the shaft/housing worn for all sorts of reasons and the machining + balancing operations can sometimes cost more than just buying a new cartridge and fitting the original housings .

Garrett are a business just like a supermarket chain so at times parts or units will be cheap and other times expensive . This is very frustrating for businesses that service turbochargers because they are trying to keep prices down while Garretts supply and demand tactics are unpredictable .

Its pretty certain Garrett never intended ball bearing turbo cartridges to be serviceable , they wanted total control by selling only cartridges or complete units to dictate price .

3) T3/T4R's . Do a search on these . Garrett is trying to tap into the T3/TO4E market in the US as the plain bearing bastard hybrids as like grass seeds over there . As I said most of them use the incorrect Turbonetics term T3 Stage 3 (actually TA34 76 trim) turbine with a small selection of 76mm TO4E compressors ie 50/54/57 trims . If your in the US and your "T3/T04E" keeps shitting itself you can buy a bolt in cartridge that has basically GT25BB internals with your same wheels - all you have to do is add the water lines and banjo bolts . Pitty the wheels aero technology and balance of compressor to turbine may be up the wall . The interesting one is the P trim/60-1 because it uses the larger turbine shaft and ball bearing unit like TO4Z's , GT40R's and GT42R's do . You could look at it a bit like a TO4Z but with the 409535-1 or 60-1 compressor .

4) The TB31/TA34 series turbos could be likened to the later development of the old dinosaur 1973 era T3's - from a turbine point of view anyway . These turbines are far better aero wise and people love to put them in reprofiled T3 exhaust housings , they are same shaft dimensions as T3 though they are normally longer at the threaded end and have a left hand thread . The turbine housings used on the Ford Sierras are not strictly speaking T3 housings but integrally gated housings designed for those turbines . They may have had a T3 flange and fitted the hot end of a T3 bearing housing but internally are different . If for example you changed the Sierras turbine housing with a machined out VLT housing performance goes backwards - big time .

Buick Grand Nationals used a 4.1 L version of our early Commode V6 and had a Garrett Turbo based on the large series T3 turbine (~ 65mm diametre vs the baby 59mm version we got on FJ's/Z18's/VLT's) in an unusual looking exhaust housing with a 3 bolt mounting flange . Its the turbine housing that suits those 65mm turbines that takes to those TB31/TA34 turbines because they are dimensionally similar .

The compressor wheel from the GN turbo happens to be quite good and is of the TA34 family . Its part no is 410299-0004 , it was known years ago as the T3 hi flow wheel but is a little laggy when teamed with the small series 59mm T3 turbine . From its map it maxes out at ~ 45lbs air at 2.2 bar though its highest efficiency "island" is wide and long - from approx 17lbs/1.4bar to approx 34lbs/2.2bar and around 5-8lbs wide on the horizontal scale . I'll get back on the trim number which I think is either 60 or 80 - more likely 60 . Actually just found it 69mm OD , 52.5 inducer diametre 58 trim and 6.25 bore size . Its sort of like a 2/3 scale 60-1 airflow wise and the large trim number makes for good efficiency .

The rest looks self explanatry but ask if not sure .

Cheers A .

[Robo's]

Disco

Well said, wish i could understand all your numbers though

[WogsRus]

all i know is i can't wait to get my gruby littel hands on one of these units. They should be fun.

[humble]

dico

thank you very much for that.. as Robo's said the numbers are a little overwhelming at first but some research will fix that..

nice mate thanks

oh what is your opinion on the slide turbos as you seem to have extensive knowledge on turbo's

Thanks

ian

[Sydneykid]

There has been lots of mention about the bearing not tolerating times of no oil pressure etc etc, but I think even in the example SK gave of the car that stalled and baked the bearing this would have happened with a BB turbo as well, the car wasn't restarted for quite some time and would most probably have damaged a BB core equally. The cost of sorting a plain bearing out though is a lot less though.

Many times in testing we have had to do a rapid engine shut down, puching the envelope and getting stuck in the sand trap is one reason. I have seen 3 GTR’s kill plain bearing turbos from oil surge related starvation. Since we went to ball bearing turbos we have not had one failure. I have NEVER seen a seized ball bearing turbo due to premature (sudden) engine shut down.

My view on plain bearing turbos may well be tainted by 15 years of experience with them failing, regularly. On the Sierras we used to have to change turbos up to 4 times in the course of a race weekend. I can still remember loosing 2 races because of turbo failure, even though we changed the turbo between races.

If you can live with the demonstrably slower response, the higher oil change frequency, the higher turbo maintenance and the greater risk of failure….then pocket the saving and move on. If you can’t, then there are alternatives.

cheers

[humble]

from what i read on the GCG website, before it was altered, i noticed that the rebuild used ceramic hi-speed bearings and load ball bearing.

i just recently checked it to show a friend and found that the site had been altered/updated..

anyone shed light on theseceramic hi-speed bearings?? are they ball bearings with ceramic coat??

Oh and also ... not all of us would be hitting sand traps or stalling whilst taking a drive down the HWY with and Automatc car.. and from what i have gathered during my short time in the turbo world most do an oil change/minor service every 5000km or there abouts...

would there be any other factors that would cause the plain bearing to b unworthy? i woudl like to know as i have a family to carry round and dont want to spend minimum $1750 for a rebuild, which could also need more money spent fixing actuators etc, if i can get a decent turbo that needs a little more care for half the price. in saying this i also dont want a turbo that will $hit itself in a few months

as stated above newbie to all of this compared to some of you so need all the info there is from everyone ho has had EXPERIENCE with THE turbos that are being discussed

thanks for the great info so far all of you

ian

[paulr33]

all the info you need is in gary's post, he clearly states the drawbacks offered from plain bearing turbochargers. i have seen auto cars stall before. it also come wind up as quick as a ball bearing unit, i think a graph showed a 2~ second advantage to the ball bearing unit, which is a long time or "lag lag lag" waiting if you get what i mean

[666DAN]

If you can live with the demonstrably slower response, the higher oil change frequency, the higher turbo maintenance and the greater risk of failure….then pocket the saving and move on.

Done and done!

My car isn't a track car, my car is automatic...I'm at the low-risk end of the scale with the plain bearing...plain bearings can also be reincarnated after oil-baking even without removing them from the vehicle....dichloromethane is your friend!

[humble]

i know that is goind to sound stupid - im driving the family round and ocasionally giving it when out with some of the fellas....a little lag wont hurt i dont think with 4WD and 3200 stall and shit kit..1750kg...if its just for fun and not serious 'i want to fully slaughter everyone bro' racing then its ok ???

ture Gary has offered alot of info as usual,, thanks ... but im talking street car not track sierra's or mad GTR's...

any thoughts on the GCG ceramic comment??

thanks Ian