Embroidery

[3intheBack]

This is completely related to the 'Embroided floor mats" thread but I just wanted to have a thread with my name as the starter...nothing personal.

My sister is an embroiderer and logo digitiser. The second job title is the bit that will interest you all.

Any clown can embroid a hat or shirt if they have the machinery and skill - but what if you want to have something special embroided. A computer program is needed to convert the digital picture into digital stitches that the sewing machine can understand and reproduce. Very few people can do this digitising and it is where most of the cost of embroidery is involved.

If you have ever had something 'different' embroided then you will have 'experienced' the setup fee. making one off jobs a luxury few can afford.

So, what I (or she) can do for you is take any digital photo and convert it to a 'digitised' image that you can take to any embroiderer and have them sew it out for you.

Now before you clog my mailbox with images...

...the program to do this cost heaps - a bit less then a JUN2.7L stroker.

I want to do up a CD (funkeymonkey style) with a number of logos - all Stagea related which you can buy for negligible cost (say $10-15) and you can embroid away to you hearts content. These logos are useless on any program other than an embroidery machine.

I need to find out the feasibilty of this first by having y'all answer a few questions.

1. Does anybody know what copyright laws I/we may infringe by doing this?

2. How much do we need to slightly change an image to avoid a lawsuit or are there any other loop hole we can jump through?

3. What logos would you like to have?

In answer to question 3, obviously we will have:

1. Two Unicorns ( Black/Red and all silver)

2. Stagea (all caps)

3. RS

4. RS4

5. RS Four

6. Nissan logo (could be in trouble with that one)

7. Slogan - "A Luxury wagon that is sporty yet functional" etc.

8. An outline of your car - like STAGEN has on his avitar.

The images that will come on the CD can only be stretched or shrunk by 10-20% when stitching, so you need to think carefully about what sizes you want - ie where are they going to used - on a cap or on a rear cargo mat.

If we need different sizes then they have to be created the correct 'actual' size.

There is a viewing program which is free to download on the net, so when you get your CD you will able to see them on your screen - but they cant be modified like photoshop.

Could extend this to include brand names, ie Nismo, Dolphin, Dayz, Calsonic etc

The images cant be rude or in bad taste, ie. a skyline peeing on a honda.

Not to be selfish but I want to keep all images Stagea related. (for now)

[munchstagea]

1. Does anybody know what copyright laws I/we may infringe by doing this?

2. How much do we need to slightly change an image to avoid a lawsuit or are there any other loop hole we can jump through?

I am a graphic designer, not a lawyer so these comments are not legally binding! Overall I think you are pretty safe.

1. Yes you will be infringing copyright and possibly even trademark, the real issue is will anyone care? Will Nissan be bothered to sue you? Probably not, but selling them (or the CD that they are on) will make you case look much worse if anything was to happen... You'd be making money out of selling their property. You are a very small fish though so I wouldn't be too worried, it is a form of brand worship rather than using the Stagea logo to sell your own product.

2. A lot, it can't even resemble the original, all the talk you hear about making a small change to a logo and then your safe is just not true and will not stand up in any court. Even if you took the horns off, changed all the colours and flipped it over you'd still have no chance if Nissan decided you ripped that off from the Stagea logo!

In the end it comes down to intent, are you making yourself a target, keep it low key and low cost, I don't think you would have any chance of coming close to the volume that would raise any eyebrows from the copyright owners in this case. I could be wrong?

Oh, and how about people pay you sister for her labour and then they get the CD for free? Do you see what I am getting at here? Don't sell Stagea logos...

Cheers

Luke

[3intheBack]

Wasnt hoping to make money out of it. I assumed that there would be a limited market - dozen guys or so. So this would cover 'Sis' costs.

[munchstagea]

Wasnt hoping to make money out of it. I assumed that there would be a limited market - dozen guys or so. So this would cover 'Sis' costs.

Yeah, just answering on a technical level, probably heavier than it needed to be, don't stress over it.

I think it is a cool idea, not sure what I would personally use them for though...

Luke

[AlexCim]

just like the free AMG when you buy the $300,000 tyres

[Swiper the Fox]

I am a graphic designer, not a lawyer so these comments are not legally binding! Overall I think you are pretty safe.

1. Yes you will be infringing copyright and possibly even trademark, the real issue is will anyone care? Will Nissan be bothered to sue you? Probably not, but selling them (or the CD that they are on) will make you case look much worse if anything was to happen... You'd be making money out of selling their property. You are a very small fish though so I wouldn't be too worried, it is a form of brand worship rather than using the Stagea logo to sell your own product.

2. A lot, it can't even resemble the original, all the talk you hear about making a small change to a logo and then your safe is just not true and will not stand up in any court. Even if you took the horns off, changed all the colours and flipped it over you'd still have no chance if Nissan decided you ripped that off from the Stagea logo!

In the end it comes down to intent, are you making yourself a target, keep it low key and low cost, I don't think you would have any chance of coming close to the volume that would raise any eyebrows from the copyright owners in this case. I could be wrong?

Oh, and how about people pay you sister for her labour and then they get the CD for free? Do you see what I am getting at here? Don't sell Stagea logos...

Cheers

Luke

Tell me how John Penlington gets away with his "Nismo.com.au" seat covers...does he have an agreement with Nismo...me doubts it. Does he get away with it...me thinks so.

[munchstagea]

Tell me how John Penlington gets away with his "Nismo.com.au" seat covers...does he have an agreement with Nismo...me doubts it. Does he get away with it...me thinks so.

Do Nismo make a similar product? Probably not. Is he lacking creativity or just cashing in on brand junkies, I'd say, hell yeah! Sounds like he is getting away with more than ripping off a brand name... And, yes legally, he is infringing copyright, if someone that has the rights to the name could be stuffed, it would at the very least cost him time in court. "Getting away with it" that wasn't the question now was it...

[66yostagea]

i would be in for a disc of the double unicorn.

If i get the disc, is it possible to upsize or downsize the embroidery?

Say you wanted seat covers and a large cargo mat.

[mcnamg]

This is completely related to the 'Embroided floor mats" thread but I just wanted to have a thread with my name as the starter...nothing personal.

My sister is an embroiderer and logo digitiser. The second job title is the bit that will interest you all.

Any clown can embroid a hat or shirt if they have the machinery and skill - but what if you want to have something special embroided. A computer program is needed to convert the digital picture into digital stitches that the sewing machine can understand and reproduce. Very few people can do this digitising and it is where most of the cost of embroidery is involved.

If you have ever had something 'different' embroided then you will have 'experienced' the setup fee. making one off jobs a luxury few can afford.

So, what I (or she) can do for you is take any digital photo and convert it to a 'digitised' image that you can take to any embroiderer and have them sew it out for you.

Now before you clog my mailbox with images...

...the program to do this cost heaps - a bit less then a JUN2.7L stroker.

I want to do up a CD (funkeymonkey style) with a number of logos - all Stagea related which you can buy for negligible cost (say $10-15) and you can embroid away to you hearts content. These logos are useless on any program other than an embroidery machine.

I need to find out the feasibilty of this first by having y'all answer a few questions.

1. Does anybody know what copyright laws I/we may infringe by doing this?

2. How much do we need to slightly change an image to avoid a lawsuit or are there any other loop hole we can jump through?

3. What logos would you like to have?

In answer to question 3, obviously we will have:

1. Two Unicorns ( Black/Red and all silver)

2. Stagea (all caps)

3. RS

4. RS4

5. RS Four

6. Nissan logo (could be in trouble with that one)

7. Slogan - "A Luxury wagon that is sporty yet functional" etc.

8. An outline of your car - like STAGEN has on his avitar.

The images that will come on the CD can only be stretched or shrunk by 10-20% when stitching, so you need to think carefully about what sizes you want - ie where are they going to used - on a cap or on a rear cargo mat.

If we need different sizes then they have to be created the correct 'actual' size.

There is a viewing program which is free to download on the net, so when you get your CD you will able to see them on your screen - but they cant be modified like photoshop.

Could extend this to include brand names, ie Nismo, Dolphin, Dayz, Calsonic etc

The images cant be rude or in bad taste, ie. a skyline peeing on a honda.

Not to be selfish but I want to keep all images Stagea related. (for now)

I think that in reality all your sis is doing is reformatting the images what we do withem is our business but a good example here is lambswwol seat covers you see for sale in shopping malls they have nissan, ford and other brands on them but you can bet your ass they arent officially licenced and you dont see the auto giants suing them

[Ska]

I'd be up for a CD, but also wouldnt mind having the images in 3 size formats so that they can be used in multiple applications, such as hat/beanie - small, floormats - medium and boot carpet - large.

I guess it all depends on what size they are and how many we can fit onto a cd. You havent got access to a dvd burner, do you....?

Anyway once you have all the legalities sorted or not, just tell me where to put my $10-$15 and I'm in.

[3intheBack]

is it possible to upsize or downsize the embroidery?

Say you wanted seat covers and a large cargo mat.

The images can only be reduced or enlarged a max of approx. 20%.

Ska is on the right track - you would need different sized images to suit the different applications.

My idea is to do two - one pocket size, which can be changed to fit on a beanie or cap. ( eg 6cm square)

Size two will be 10-12 cm square, which can be enlarged to a max of 15 cm - big enough for a seatcover.

The resizing can be done by yourselves using the free software (called Tru-sizer).

I will also include two types of each image size - one of an outline and one filled in. Eg look at the Stagea logo on the rear quarter glass - that is an outline. The emblem on the grill is 'filled in' balck and red. The filled in images will cost u a lot more to embroid.

A brief explanation of how it works is in order (and I dont have sis here to correct me)

You've all seen an embrioded logo. And you've noticed that there are hundreds, even 000's of stitches. The images on the CD arent just an image (like the type you would print out), rather, they are a static program that tells the machine were to put the stitch. To cover a large single block colour area, say 10cm across, the machine cant put one stitch across the entire length or it will be loose and the threads would catch on everything. So the pattern tells the machine to put in the appropriate number of stitches to cover the desired distance.

So, you should be able to see now why you cant change the original size of the image given to you (on the CD) by much. If you increase the size all you do is increase the length of the stitch, so it will look loose and the image will warp out of shape with use. To change the size of the logo to match the size of your application ie 6cm square logo on a hat or 15cm square logo on a seat cover, you would need two different digitised images - the small image will tell the machine to put in, say, 20 stitches to cover a 3cm length and the seatcover digitised image will be set up to tell the machine to put in 100 stitches to cover a 15cm length.

Each one of these digitised images has to be individually set up and tweaked by the digitiser (person) to make it work right - much like blowing up a digital photo - when you do it, certain elements will distort and have colour changes which need to be corrected if you want to print it.

Just so you understand how much of a bargain this is - if you went to an embroider it would cost in the vicinity of $10 per 1000 stitches - a 6cm logo, in outline format only, uses around 4000 stitches. A 6cm logo which is filled in with a block colour, uses up to 8000 stitches. So the fee is $40-80 per logo and this is setup only, before the cost of embroiding it on your garment. Also, just like the wedding photgrapher - you pay for the negatives but you will never get to keep them for yourself, because they dont want you going to another shop to have them developed.

With the images I am sending to you, they are yours to keep and take to whoever you please. And there will be a number of logos - not just one.

We could do a really large logo - like word "Stagea" in the rear cargo cover - 30cm wide, but this will start to cost you as a one off special as the actual font has to be created by hand and will involve many 000's of stitches.

I hope all this helps and stimulates some more discussion. I hope I havent been more technical then one of SK's posts.

[neostagea]

yeah i'd be in for a cd if it gets made just pm me with details if it goes ahead

[2rismo]

Wouldn't your sister know the ins and outs of Copyright and Tradmark issues if this is what she does?

[3intheBack]

She has people wanting to do this thing all the time. Usually they turn a blind eye to it. If they dont ask any questions then they dont need to feel responsible. As they say - at the end of the day, they dont know what sort of arrangement the client has with the owner of the trademark, and they are not the ones selling the trademark onto someone else for a profit. The client can simply say this is for personal use.

I know none of this (ignorance) matters a rats ... when it comes to the letter of the law. But she is happy to do it and the main thing is if I make a couple of bucks (literally about that much) we are going to pass it onto her boss who owns the software.

Either way I am going to do this for myself. I just wanted to post it up here and share my joy with my fellow wagoners.(cause that's the kind of guy I am) Plus having others input would be nice. Mostly, this was prompted by the Embroided cargo mats thread - if people are happy to pay that much for a one off item with a high set up cost, then I thought for a small price they could have something more useful in more applications, which would be theirs to keep.

[66yostagea]

I rather think that Nissan (JAPAN) would be more than pleased at a group

promoting , in any way, the NISSAN name here or anywhere.

In fact if you asked Nissan Japan for some promotional $$$$$$$ they might come to the party.

Look at the name Nissan has got out here thru SILVIA, SKYLINE, STAGEAS,

(the three esses) not to mention 180's. Here in Oz grass roots motor enthusiasm seems to have more Nissan afficondios than the other marques.

If youlike i'll write to Nissan. Who else among you has had an RMR30 for 23 years. Bullet proof.

[66yostagea]

where are we up to here?

I"m keen to do something. Also have ideas for other embelishments (thats a BIG word).

[funkymonkey]

I've got some of the stagea logo's in vector format (EPS) somewhere on my website... gotta dig it up.

[3intheBack]

Sorry lads, Like Shan (Service manual saga) I'm leaving town this Saturday for a couple of weekends. Besides running a coach company of 32 buses, I also drive them every so often. So I havent been able to get much done.

This will definitely go ahead - legalilties have been sorted and duelly (sic) ignored. Best thing would be to email any logos you want to:

[email protected]

Jpeg format preffered. 300 dpi or above. It doesnt have to be perfect as the image is only used as a guide when put into the digitising program.

[66yostagea]

Sorry this is so big.

I thought of this for Three in the Back

I am working on some other bits and will keepyou posted.

[Ska]

That really looks great Hugh!