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[mad082]

i just call it boost cut. i know it isn't caused by boost but by the afm reaching max voltage, as it dropped 2 psi after i did my dump pipe and cat.

i know you can make over 200kw with the stock ecu, its nothing knew i am just curious as a stock stock ecu wont make that amount of power

did you read what you said? you say it can, and has been done, but it's not possible. make you mind up. and if you think it can't well you are wrong. i have a fully stock ecu that does it.

[paulr33]

its not a stock ecu

there is something else about the engine you arent aware of

cams

turbo

ecu

airflow meter

something on the fuel rail

something in the injectors or settings

something has been altered

to;

a) make that power

b) avoid the excess airflow protection

c) post up afr's that will likely reveal the true answer

[paulr33]

and face lets pretend for a seconds its a true stock ecu and nothing has been changed which i dont believe. whats the benefit in retaining the stock ecu?

you cant tune/adjust the IGN timing on the maps

you cant tune/adjust the INJ settings on the maps

you cant change airflow meters

you cant change injectors

you cant get real time debugging via a hand display or control unit

so you've saved $960 big deal. i would much rather have the powerfc with a well tuned ign map with as good as can be cruise afr's and crisp response, which you only get once youve gone and tuned the IGN points, which takes time. i still wouldnt want to keep the stock ecu, given the choice

[mad082]

i couldn't get afr's

are you stupid? i have said that i do get air flow protection. could it just be that i have a healthy motor. and have done things correctly. there are 2 dips on my graph that show that the car leaned out and they lifted off the throttle till it richened up a bit.

the turbo is stock, afm is stock. you got beaten by someone with a stock ecu. get over it. i'm not the only one. does that mean that everyone else with a stock ecu getting that sort of power has some hidden mods too?

[mad082]

my graph maps out pretty much the same as yours, so how would response be much different? stop trying to justify to yourself that the extra $1000 you've spent over me would make your car any better.

and i never said i was going to keep the stock ecu. i've only had the car 2 months. i'm upgrading the ecu adn turbo soon so the stock ecu is going bye-byes.

[mad082]

and i doubt the previous owner had the ecu chipped or flashed, as it was a chick that owned it and the car was stock. i doubt the ecu would be moddified anyway, as it still has 'boost cut', and speed limiter, so if it had been modded they would've removed both of those.

[khunjeng]

so what "tuning" has been done to the car to get 200rwkw? funny there was no AFR on the graph...considering its like a pretty important piece of info when tuning your car.

in fact what do u tune if your not adjusting the AFR or the timing anyway?

Edited June 14, 2006 by khunjeng

[AdamsR33]

no i'm saying your tune is crap cause it dies at 6000rpm, whereas mine keeps making power till redline. and i'm saying that a stock ecu that is running well will make nearly as much power as a well tuned pfc on the same car, provided it is below the boost cut.

Okay we get it, you got stock ecu, what i think they want to know which i would've thought you would of realised by now is what else has been done to your car to get that amount of power?

I have stock ecu, turbo etc etc, my only mods so far is the exhaust where i have a dump pipe off the turbo and 3 inch hi flow exhaust. I have a pod filter but that does nothing to power figures, On the dyno day at UAS it made 175rwkws, and i will admit i was very surprised at that figure i was only expecting 150-160 at most.

So c'mon mate spill your guts what else has been done to get the power you've got?

Also just because a chick owned the car before doesn't mean she didn't get it "chipped or modded" just look at some of the women owners on this forum and their cars, moanie for one, Liz is another. there are a few out there showing up some of us "men" And just becuase it has speed limiter and "boost cut" doesn't mean it isn't chipped or modded. I'm sure you said this, "i'm not the only one making over 200kw with the stock ecu. haven't you read the dyno section? a piggy back doesn't get rid of boost cut, only full ecu or fuel cut defender. from post number 76.

[khunjeng]

i think you need to factor in his 11 pound boost and his FMIC...

in the end...does it really matter?

[benl1981]

Remember that on the dyno results can vaty by atleast 30rwkw..

You would be lucky to get above 150rwkw (no matter what mods) on a true dyno with stock ecu. They are programmed to protect the engine by richening up and retarding timing. If you have a lazy fuel pump that causes the car to run slightly lean this may give you a few more kws but is also dangerous.

On a stock computer you have the air flow protection which can make the power delivery less than ideal. A powerfc (ideal) or SAFC style device is most likely needed. Very rare to see a stock ecu car with mods with a smooth power delivery - usually has dips in power curve etc.

Doesn't matter on the condition of your motor - it is all in the programming.

[Quinny]

I reckon Mad and Paul should get out to a drag strip an settle this on the black-top.

[mad082]

I reckon Mad and Paul should get out to a drag strip an settle this on the black-top.

going to next month.

funny there was no AFR on the graph...considering its like a pretty important piece of info when tuning your car.

if you actually read what i said in earlier posts, they wouldn't give me the AFR's.

all the car has is full exhaust (split dump, 80mm front pipe, 3" cat, 3.5" cat back), hybrid front mount, boost controller, pod and cai. we did some adjustments to the timing and a few other things that any good DIYtuning website will tell you, tho some i have never seen on a skyline website, but on a magna and pulsar websites, but they apply to any car.

Doesn't matter on the condition of your motor - it is all in the programming.

yes it does! if you have little compression you aren't going to make as much power as someone with good compression.

Edited June 14, 2006 by mad082

[mad082]

So c'mon mate spill your guts what else has been done to get the power you've got?

why should i? and even if i did tell you, most of you would probably say it won't make any difference anyway, so there is no point.

On a stock computer you have the air flow protection which can make the power delivery less than ideal

thats only if you get to a point where it cuts in. if you stay below that it make no difference to the power curve.

Edited June 14, 2006 by mad082

[paulr33]

a drag run is likely to prove even more incosistent results. and with my car having a busted lsd its likely to prove i have lots of wheelspin and nothing more.

a lot of people rate an aftermarket ecu on the max power it makes. max power is probably 1/5th of the main featureset from an aftermarket ecu. on cruise response, throttle response and all the other important bits inbetween is what matters. how often are you on max load on the street? maybe 10% of the time, if that? the bits in the middle matter. i can assure you my ignition timing would be much more advanced than yours in the low areas, and this is where it counts.

sure you can advance your timing on the cas and get whatever comes out, the stock ecu is likely to just drop the low octane map when it picks up detonation.

also different dyno on a different day, the results are not really useful to compare. i think we also have different ramp rate. higher ramp rate generally yields lower power. so this could account for some of it too

but anyway this is way off topic, perhaps there should be a stock ecu vs powerfc. im sure of the results before the thread has even started.

[Quinny]

MPH is a pretty good indicator of performance. Usually on the drag strip, MPH won't change a great deal, evn with a bad launch, missed gear etc. My stock 5.0L Commodore on my very first run at WSID ran 15.5 @ 93mph (bogged it down big time), then on my next run, I ran 15.0 @ 93mph. 93mph should be good for about 14.7, but it was the first time I ever raced on the strip. A busted LSD might be a problem though.

You could organise to be at the same workshop on the same day for a dyno run, no inconsistencies then...

Edited June 14, 2006 by Quinny

[mad082]

If you have a lazy fuel pump that causes the car to run slightly lean this may give you a few more kws but is also dangerous.

a car runs more power with a good afr than lean. my old 180sx jumped from 210hp -leaning out, to 233hp with a new fuel pump.

Also just because a chick owned the car before doesn't mean she didn't get it "chipped or modded

the car was stock as a rock. she only had the car cause her daddy bought it for her birthday. she didn't mod it.

and yes i know that different dynos produce different power, but another r33 in town went on the dyno the same day as me and only got 185kw with same mods, but without the extra tuning. does that mean i onlt have the same power as him and the dyno just decided to give my car more power? my car drives a lot nicer than his and feels more powerful.

and anyone out there that has a bit to do with new cars will know that every now and then you will drive a brand new car that feels more powerful than the others. it has just been setup that little bit better than all the others. just like when the xr6 turbos first came out some where recalled because they were putting out 300kw at the flywheel instead of 240kw.

[paulr33]

im really not that interested to be honest, i am well aware of the advantages of moving to the powerfc, and the disadvtanges staying with the stock ecu. having used the pFC for nearly 2 years now i see no point in staying with the stock ecu.

my best time with a cold track and busted lsd was 13.7 @ 105mph

and again, on a dyno all it compares is max power. i do not care about max power, average power makes a car fast. the response makes it fast.

lets just leave it at you make x power on x dyno with x ecu and i made y power with y ecu on y dyno.

its not like 25 peiople are going to say oh crap the pfc is really crap, so and so can make 200rwkw on stock ecu, damn what a waste

of course not. anyway back on topic

[mad082]

You could organise to be at the same workshop on the same day for a dyno run, no inconsistencies then

different states.

[mad082]

and again, on a dyno all it compares is max power. i do not care about max power, average power makes a car fast. the response makes it fast.

i plotted my power against yours and its pretty similar the whole way till yours flattens off. so my average power is the same as yours. and again, i said i'm not keeping the stock ecu. learn to read.

[Quinny]

Really guys, we are talking about 2 mildly modified cars, on different dynos, there are so many inconsistencies here. The real benefits of an aftermarket computer probably won't be as evident until you start getting some serious HP.

This is kind of going around in circles now.