Best Bang For Your Bucks

[mad082]

look the point i'm making is that a poorly tuned aftermarket ecu can be beaten by a stock ecu on a midly modded car. and if you don't agree then you need to pull your head out of your arse and wake up to yourself.

[paulr33]

ok so how is it poorly tuned

please explain what's "poorly" tuned about it

[mad082]

well you power flattens off at high rpm, whereas mine keeps climbing to redline. that is why mine showed more power.

and i was just making the comment in general, but cubes agrees. read his post from a page or 2 ago.

[mad082]

So pauls appears to have a problem with the top end reading flat then...

Compare it to something else..

Maybe this one I've attached that obviously doesn't have something strange going on with a flat top end.

page 4 about 1/4 way down.

[paulr33]

im aware of the top end dropping off. its always been there.

so how is the rest of the tune shit. how are the cruise afr's shit

how is the low cruise IGN timing shit. how is the max load ign timing shit

[mad082]

well if you pulled your head out your arse for a second, and read what i said before, i was making a general comment, not specifically talking about you. and you aren't the only one making approx 180kw on a pfc. maybe you all go to the same tuner and he is crap. maybe you did it yourself and you should've taken it to a professional. there are people out there who can tune better than others.

if you have a flat spot of about 1000rpm it means you have some sort of issue. it may not been in the tune, but it is somewhere. maybe i have a better flowing exhaust, or turbo in better condition, but there is something that mine has that yours doesn't to give it that extra 1000rpm worth of power.

Edited June 14, 2006 by mad082

[paulr33]

i have read what you said, several times. and i have seen the comments by cubes. both of which i have read and understood. the car hasn't been to the same place, its been to 3 different places and i have done some touch up tuning myself, mainly advance some timing here or there and lean out the afr's more for better economy.

so now you think its the turbo or something else causing the lack of power? are you sure? which one is it? its the same in your case. the ecu isnt the only thing that makes power. perhapps something else in your car is different

anyway

im over it

im happy with my ecu and tune, you keep your stock ecu tune and keep ranting about it making the same power. we're both happy

[mad082]

i was simply saying possible causes for your flat curve since it has always been there. and for the millionth time, i'm not keeping the ecu, it is getting upgraded. i never said an aftermarket ecu was bad, just that bolting one in doesn't automatically give it more power than a stock ecu. and if the person tuning it doesn't have a clue then it could end up worse than a stock ecu.

[Cubes]

I wouldn't feel completely safe running around with yours Mad, afr's are obviously on the 'edge' definitely not something the thread OP wants. Dirty fuel filter = leaner again, fuel pump that decides no more = leaner again. Definitely not safe.

Have yours tuned with safe afr's and you will most likely find your back down with the rest of them, 190-200rwkw.

BUT you WILL pick up mid range and off boost power.

On your dyno that may make it look like yours has more mid range over others, jump on another and it will be the same as the others.

So sure 200rwkw 'can' be done with a select few R33's with ecu's that don't freak out and R&R all over the place.

Generally series 1.5, well I knew of one R33 Series 1.5 that was a freak and cracked 200rwkw, I know of 4 others that had fuel cuts and R&R topping out at 178rwkw. So not everything is equal.

I think you will find its generally not the tuner that gets low power out puts its the variables involved.

Engine condition, turbo type (series 1, 2 etc), how the car is tyed down, inlet temp sensor position and finally how the dyno reads. Its not uncommon to have a dyno read 10rwkw different.

With regards to pauls strange top end, thats not a tuning issue, its most likely something stupid.

Have you found out why it was doing that yet Paul?

[mad082]

it is a series 2 motor. series 1.5 car i have seen a few of the 1.5's with series 2 motors.. i asked how the afr's were since they wouldn't give me them and they said the were ok, but could be improved. there were rich in some areas, lean in others.

and i understand that different dyno's pull different powers, but i'm 25hp up on another r33 in town with same mods (except the adjustments we made) (same dyno, same day), so obviously i've done something right.

[Cubes]

lol.. So why not share these adjustments?

Its not the old frp bleeder trick is it?

[blu3chip]

i can't help it but comment on mad082 for being someone who keeps going into threads looking for a fight.

[mad082]

i can't help it but comment on mad082 for being someone who keeps going into threads looking for a fight.

i get bored easy at work.

[paulr33]

my afr's are on my dyno sheets

http://members.dodo.com.au/paul/pics/dyno/...r33-193rwkw.jpg

the tune has been alterted slightly, i have throw in a stack load more timing in the low end 8x8 area

and also cranked out the cuirse afr's in the 8x8 area to get some super economy. there is also on avg a 2deg increase on the ign map everywhere.

the top end we arent sure why it dies off. ive looked at it, a tuner has and we can't figure it out

its a series 2 with 150,000 on the clock. the top off dying has always been there, since day one when i got the car 50,000 with stock ecu

[mad082]

what exhaust setup do you have? it may be something isn't flowing well enough to let the gases escape fast enough so it is just backing up. generally a poorly flowing exhaust won't be able to cope at high rpm. or do you have a partitioned pod?

Edited June 15, 2006 by mad082

[Cubes]

193rwkw is nicer.. Thats the norm I would say.

[Quinny]

Your car seems to run a little rich at the top end, the power curve seems to flatten out when the AFR drops below 12. Maybe that has something to do with it?

[Cubes]

Maybe a little more fuel with a little more ignition timing gave better results than less fuel less ignition timing.

Nothing wrong with 193rwkw anyway.. I'd say its the norm for the dyno I run on at least.

That 211rwkw dyno sheet was a bit of a freak run.. It made 187rwkw on the same dyno another day. probably just tied down different or something. lol hehehe

Comapring pauls dyno sheet to a few other rb25's here paul has more average power everywhere. 130km/h is pretty impressive.

[paulr33]

3" batmbl split dump, 3" hiflow cat, 3" exhaust

all custom exhaust shop crap, no brand name stuff.

my average power rocks, my car feels so quick on the street

[NickR33]

Just as a note to others the SAFC may help stop the stock ecus rich and retard but will not remove it completely... I still hit it on really cold nights when I go above .75 Bar