Rb30, Realistic Na Power Figures

[dondesoto]

OR ONE I THESE . I made this one with 2 x rb25 throttle bodies , plenty of air and more torque than short runners .

[Fitzpatrick Speed Works]

Dont do a rb30 for NA cause you simply wont be able to rev it high enough. They are only really good to 7.5k which is heaps for a turbo but not for NA. I was talking to a guy the other day that had put a na 2j in a sprint car, it was fully worked made around 350kw and he reved the thing to 10.5k with around 13:1 comp, now this thing is mega dollars cause the valvetrain in this thing is super exotic to handle the rpm. If you are dead set on a nissan route, i would grab a rb26 whack in a 2.7 or 2.8 stocker full counterweight crank, some head work, around 12.5:1 comp and it should push out around 280kw in theory i would think! you should be able to rev an engine like that to 9.5k safely without damaging the big and and mains from harmonics!!

[slip]

hey dondesto, have you thought about doing something to get some fresh air to those pods? an alloy plate probably wont really do much, but it would be interesting to see what someone could come up with.

[dondesoto]

hey dondesto, have you thought about doing something to get some fresh air to those pods? an alloy plate probably wont really do much, but it would be interesting to see what someone could come up with.

THIS IS WHAT I DO WHEN RACING

3rd and 2nd pics are what i used at drags ( 14 .4 @ 95 mph )

1st and 3rd pics are what i used at sal lake speed trials ( 141 mph average at one point taching 152 mph )

Edited June 1, 2006 by dondesoto

[slip]

nice dude.

what compression ratio has that thing got. and what pistons to acheive it, any shaving of head et?

[Russ_T]

Nice one guys

I can make up my own fuel rails and throttle body set ups Would probably go for something after market with a twin injector set up (one in tb, one in air box a la F1 and other performance engines).

I am trying to find a book or website with the different bores/strokes of RB blocks and the cylinder head chamber sizes etc etc so I can start working out a compression ratios and such. Any ideas please? Amazon has nothing here.

I really need to be able to run it on normal petrol though, here thats about 95RON to 97RON, 13:1 might be nice but I would like something I can just fill up without thicking "where's my additives?" and such. I know that will limit the HP.

Engine HAS to be Nissan, otherwise I might as well forget this project and fit a SBC like every else does.

I can get an RB26 in this country, which will save me some agro/money.

Not being a Skyline man (I wish, one day) can someone recommend any good web shops that stock lots of engine parts and all the major manufacturers please? I would like to start eyeing up parts and prices. It might even be cheaper to buy the OSGiken kit lol

Thanks again all.

[BADR33]

NA R33, hmm i could be keen on that offer if i do decide to go with the hex throttles.

that will be a while away tho as i am poor from buying a new clutch(carbon/kevlar), and soon to be buying a 5stud conversoin all going well

but otherwise ill probly look at going dondesoto's set up as its cheep and easy.

there is a guy in NZ with a rb30de that put out 139rwkw with basic mods

heres the link. unfortunaltly the guy wont tell me any specs

http://www.skylinesdownunder.com/forums/sh...ead.php?t=51434

[slip]

russ youll be able to find the bores/strokes on here. may find some head cc chamber sizes too. just do a search.

[juddieR31]

A good mate of mine put a stock Rb30 into his C210 coupe, bolted on a set of extractors, Pod, CAI, advanced timing ETC and ran consistent 15.0 sec. passes at our last R31 Drag day. In search of more power, he made a kit to mount the Toyota Sc14 (I think?) supercharger, bolted it all on, only running 6psi he managed a 13.5 quater mile. This all on an unworked Rb30. I would estimate that hes running close to 150rwkw now.

[342Four]

russ

also check out www.r31skylineclub.com for info on the rb30e engine

there should be some other tech stuff there that might interest you

[dondesoto]

nice dude.

what compression ratio has that thing got. and what pistons to acheive it, any shaving of head et?

I calculated i have10.5 - 1 compression . I use stock RB25DE pistons which sit about .050" lower than rb30s . RB25DEs pistons have taller dome tho . To get around 11-1 + compression , deck the rb30 block .050" so that pistons outer edge sit higher

[Fitzpatrick Speed Works]

rb26 73mmx86mm

rb25 71mmx86mm

rb30 86mmx86mm

rb26 64cc

rb25 63cc

rb30 56cc

[Cubes]

rb30 85mm stroke x 86mm bore

[Fitzpatrick Speed Works]

Sorry Joel you are correct!

[Hakai]

Look at what M3's are putting out. That is one amazing engine and they are 252kw or something. Good luck getting close to that.

Heh, while 253kw out of an aspirated inline 6 is damn impressive, there are others making more, in production cars.

British manufacturer TVR has an engine in their new Sagaris that beats the M3's engine in every regard: Displacement: 3996cc

All-aluminium TVR Speed Six straight six engine with 4 valves per cylinder and double overhead camshafts

Direct overhead cams actuating valves via finger followers

Forged aluminium pistons and forged steel con rods

Individual port throttles on tuned inlet tracts with multipoint fuel injection

Fully mapped ignition and injection system with adaptive Lambda control

Dry sump lubrication system with oil cooler.

Double close-coupled 3-way catalytic converters

Tuned length stainless steel exhaust system

Max power: 380 bhp @ 7,000–7,500rpm

Max torque: 349ft.lbs @ 5,000 rpm

Max rpm: 7,800rpm

The RB series engines are next to bulletproof, there is an absolute wealth of parts and knowledge availabe for both NA and forced induction purposes. I really don't think it's impossible to set a goal of 300 or even 400hp from an NA RB engine providing you're willing to put in the time, money and patients to get it done.

Just my 2c.

[scathing]

British manufacturer TVR has an engine in their new Sagaris that beats the M3's engine in every regard

How do you figure?

By the stats you posted, the TVR's I6 fails to meet the 100hp/L benchmark that BMW's M division has met since the E36 M3's Series 1 engine.

And lets not get into discussing the reliability of that engine. Nor its fuel economy. TVR boasts that every last nut and bolt in their cars is British made, which anyone ever following the trail of bits leading to an overheated / broken down TVR will definitely attest to.

I wouldn't mind seeing figures on their respective torque curves either. The M3's engines have apparently been remarkably tractable in the low end despite their high redlines and high peak power but I've heard differing stories from people who've driven them.

Aside from having more displacement, what exactly does the Sagaris I6 beat the M3's I6 in? All the "wow" bits you've listed are still no-where near the M3's list of tech. Double VANOS. One of the world's most powerful ECU's. Lightweight internals. Carbon coated pistons for self lubrication and lower friction. Dual length intakes. Individual throttle bodies. Tuned length extractors. And they're all I can remember off the top of my head.

Do you drive a Commodore or a Falcon? Because the last time I heard someone saying that an engine was "superior" based on its extra displacement, they got their arses handed to them at Bathurst.

[Russ_T]

Heh, while 253kw out of an aspirated inline 6 is damn impressive, there are others making more, in production cars.

British manufacturer TVR has an engine in their new Sagaris that beats the M3's engine in every regard: Displacement: 3996cc

There you go, it's a 4ltr RB26 has a destinct disadvantage. Although I was going to go the route of ITBs, MFI and any trick bits I can get, I am still 1.4ltrs down.

The RB series engines are next to bulletproof, there is an absolute wealth of parts and knowledge availabe for both NA and forced induction purposes. I really don't think it's impossible to set a goal of 300 or even 400hp from an NA RB engine providing you're willing to put in the time, money and patients to get it done.

That's what I wanted to hear Where is this wealth of information though on NA tuning the RB please? I have various books on general four stroke performance tuning, but I'd really like to find a website (be it a shop or whatever) where I can start looking into parts, different pistons to get the compression ratio I want etc etc. I'm finding it difficult to plan it at the moment.

[Russ_T]

TVR boasts that every last nut and bolt in their cars is British made, which anyone ever following the trail of bits leading to an overheated / broken down TVR will definitely attest to.

Don't start on British car engineering/manufacture. Honda have chosen my country to build in, no one ever said a Honda was unreliable. Also F1 engineering is basically here, now that's some BHP/Ltr from an NA engine. McLaren, Cosworth etc etc.

Anyway at least the TVR has soul and sounds nice, the M3 is a bit of a no brainer, yeh very accomplished and great if you buy a car with your head, not your heart.

Anyway back on topic.

Edited June 12, 2006 by Russ_T

[scathing]

No, Hondas are quite impressive. And so are Jaguars and Aston Martins now that they're owned by Ford. The new Roller isn't too bad either, unlike prior ones.

But are we seeing a common thread here? None of them are actually owned by the British. So none of their QC procedures or top brass are local.

But, have a look at the guys that are / were still local. TVR. Rover. (I'll leave out the kit car manufacturers like Westfield and Caterham). I could even point out Lotus even though they're owned by Malaysians.

(As an aside, most of what I said above comes from the Brits I work with. When I told them I wanted a Tuscan or Sagaris, they laughed at me and were making bets about whether the car would stay together long enough to overheat in Australia's higher temperatures, considering how often they boil over in chilly England.)

The Brits build great, fun cars. I'd have an Atom S2 in an instant if I could get it street legal(ish). The TVR Tuscan is just gorgeous, and the Cerbera I saw and heard a year ago still gives me a chubby. If I could afford an Elise 111R I'd sell my current car.

But, without guidance from the Germans or the Japanese you guys don't mass produce cars that last the distance. Its OK, we Aussies aren't much better.

[NA power]

I cant see how you wont get 300kw out of a Rb25de. You will need to spend some money on it. But it is possable.

In my old 31 (1987 S1 GX). i had a standard RB30e with 218XXXklm then put Extractors on it, standard catback with a cannon no muffers, POD, CAI, Stage 2 Cam, Port and Polish Standard comp. made 111.3rwkw on 97RON with 1 bottel of octane boost.

I only spent about 1200 on my Rb30 to make that much power. The rb30e come out with 114kw at the fly wheel. so i had a fear bit of a increase. and it still had more to go. Could have put a After market ECU in it and got it tuned. a big Catback. Pushed up the comp by heaps. change the fuel pump becasue you could feel it limiting the engine at high revs. It would have been a very fast single cam engine for its age.

so with the Twin Cam rb25 i cant see the probelm with 300kw engine. ECU, Big Cams, Big Comp, Port Polish, big zorst, and even abit of GAS for the track.........

Soon as i sell my 4WD and buy my GTS. im planing on building a fast Rb25de but i will run GAS for sure.

cheers Deano