Ideal Rules For A Modern Racing Series.

[GTRgeoff]

I want to open the floor for discussion, as a result of this topic http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...pic=119743&st=0 on what we think would result in a successful racing class set of rules for both old and new cars to compete together. Probably no outcome but just for discussion.

I'm thinking bringing IPRA and Targa class racing together, but in a way turbo cars aren't overly disadvantaged.

Reasonable mods for innovation and weight reduction. Cages a necessity.

Sure a big budget will almost always run away with the series but something to put the fun back in racing for the not so professional big budget racers.

Racers! Start your engines!!

[Roy]

It would be free, and i would win the series...that is all

[GTRgeoff]

The guys in Tassie seem to have fun

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...109798&hl=targa

but will it run out of control?

[hrd-hr30]

how's this for starters - using some of the good parts of other racing categories now.

- outright and U2L classes, with seperate grids if the fields are big enough (thanks to IPRA)

- restrictors for all outright class cars wether they are turbo or not (based on their factory weights) with the biggest to limit power to about 600bhp.

- run on semi-slicks. not sure wether they should have a control tyre or not... there's pros and cons in that argument

- no max rim width. as long as it fits within the gaurds its OK. lip rolling and removal of plastic splash gaurds allowed

- similar interior rules as IPRA, ie dash and door trims must remain.

- cages allowed from front strut tower to rear strut tower (as for PRC rally cars).

- rose joints allowed. factory pivot points, and for multi-link suspension systems (eg double wishbone) factory lower arms must remain.

things I'm not suree what I would do with are:

- rules for brakes. maybe limited to the largest optional disc size for the model?

- rear wings? personal preference against those big carbon/alloy wings, but I think the class would have to allow them.

- ground clearance rule? 100mm low enough, or make it 75mm? or maybe use the sport sedan rules here?

heaps more, but that's got a few things off the top of my head

I'd say make it only for post 86 vehicles to keep a bit of a modern feel to it. Who really wants to see 70's corollas, escorts, dattos and rotaries anyway - and the few that do already have a class to watch...

oh, and ban falcons and commodores

[GTRgeoff]

I like all those points. Although Falcadores should be in for cheap cannon fodder and back of grid runners.

Brakes, big enough to fit in the wheels but keep races short enough to make uber-setups non-effective.

I say limit wings but allow underbody Aero open to a point. As you said, limit clearance to say 75mm but allow splitters and undertrays. Don't want corner speeds too dramatically different.

Say NO to reverse grids.

Yes to post 86 which is the advent of modern performance really.

No kit cars. Have to be a primary production car from any manufacturer worldwide of say at least 1000 cars a year and loose terms for "family" of cars.

Any more?

[djr81]

A ban on all rotaries...

[GTRgeoff]

That's a bit harsh. As Harry said we can just limit airflow on an good basis of equality.

[blk180]

Maybe have power to weight limits?

Weight to cylinder/rotar limits like drag racing

[phunky_monkey]

Banning rotaries is unfair. It is no better than the ban's laid down upon the GT-R's in group A.

If you can build a better car, you can beat them

[GTRgeoff]

I think that was Harry's thoughts. An airflow restrictor on the basis of weight, so no matter how big the donk or how many cylinders/rotors only a certain amount of air can pass.

[djr81]

That's a bit harsh. As Harry said we can just limit airflow on an good basis of equality.

Yeah, but only a bit. You don't want to end up like the street class over in WA which is now a rotary benefit. That & I am sick of seeing old series 1/2 RX7's being trotted out in classes that are ostensibly about modern cars...

[GTRgeoff]

People are pretty annoyed with the outright advantage RX-7s have in IP racing Dane, and of course they want the status quo changed while the rotor boys are happy to keep it as is, hence my starting this thread to find a medium, or at least let people vent at what they don't like.

[GTRgeoff]

So what are the thoughts on what Harry has posted so far?

[Beer Baron]

i think determining air intake restrictor size based on weight is a good idea. that should make heavier late model cars worth running. Like supras, S8 RX7a, GTRs etc etc. So they can run a larger restrictor as most late model cars are heavier than the S1 RX7s etc.

[phunky_monkey]

People are pretty annoyed with the outright advantage RX-7s have in IP racing Dane, and of course they want the status quo changed while the rotor boys are happy to keep it as is, hence my starting this thread to find a medium, or at least let people vent at what they don't like.

I understand completely Geoff, and no doubt I would be annoyed if I was on the receiving end, but I just see an outright ban on rotaries as restricting them simply because they are too quick/win too much, very similar to what occurred in the early 90's in other classes of racing...

That, and I'm a rotary man at heart (have had a series 2 RX7 and an RX3) and plan on an FD when I've had my fun with the 180

I like Harry's rules, don't see any problems with them. The only one I'm not a big fan of is the brake restriction as this will make a few models unable to compete (ie S13) as they had such pathetic brakes from the factory. My 2c

Dane

[GTRgeoff]

Don't get me wrong, I love a rotor too but it isn't a matter of them being too fast but that other cars appear too heavily restricted in comparison. At least that is my take on it. Of course a really light car will corner well, so if all are equally fast on power to weight, the lightest car will win so a method of establishing reasonable equality should be considered.

Perhaps a weight penalty for success? Or has that failed in other classes?

[Duncan]

hmm well here is my 2c.

Firstly, class racing is very simple. build the right car for the regs and then hope they don't change.

Production Car CAMS 3E is within the reach of a lot of people financially, thats why I race there and strongly support the category. RB26 with about 250 at the wheels is pretty reliable (as long as I am not the builder) and there are very limited ways in which you can be outspent.

So I reckon the existing production car rules are excellent, I would make the following changes to them:

* Brake discs and calipers are free - poor factory brakes rule out many cars

* Zorst is free (instead of only turbo cars being restricted).

* Oil, trans, diff coolers are free - just a reliability item not performance.

edit * I would have free bush material and adjsutability as well

I would still keep the must run standard boost rule for fairness with na cars.

One rule I am not sure about is I wouldn't mind seeing control slicks and a control wet tyre.

My 3E car has cost less than $30k to buy and build (twice). THe racing is close and exciting to watch as well.

[Duncan]

Now...in my ideal world as well as production 3E for the cheapies to race in, I would have an open class.

That is all. Basically sports sedans regs with 4wd allowed. Then the engineers and those that want a *Really* fast car can do what they like.

Personally to me IPRA is between 2 stools.....not cheap and not fast. So why bother?

[GTRgeoff]

Personally to me IPRA is between 2 stools.....not cheap and not fast. So why bother?

So basically you could say it's pick the t*rd then

Some seriously good options there, although I wouldn't go as far as making it Sports Sedans with AWD but simply open slather on engine power in an open class. Short on aero and control tyres so the driver is the feature of an open powered car.

What about traction and ABS? Gone I say!!

[Duncan]

well I dont think the driver is ever a factor in an open class, but I would think that, my first racing was in a controlled one make class. I mean, sure you need a driver but the best driver in an open rules class does not necessarily win.

Also, in an open class I reckon aero is fine...I'd love to drive a gtr with good front and rear downforce.....lets not forget some cars come with serious aero already (eg 34gtr vspec) so yuo might as well make it available to everyone instead of disadvantaging some.

All this only applies to my open class theory

One last thing, I would say electrics are OK and free, ABS, traction control, DSC etc etc. This stuff is the future for road cars so why not have it on race cars?

Great thread idea btw