Brakes Not Hot Enough?

[AzzurrA]

Hi all,

well, i finished my brake upgrade... I now have fitted to the car:

DBA4000 Slotted rotors on the front

Machined standard rotors on the rear

Ferodo DS2500 Brake Pads front and rear

Motul RBF600 fluid...

anyway, i have driven softly on this setup (just day-to-day driving) for about 200km now, without really giving it any real heat etc, to give the rotors some time to bed in (as per DBA instructions, which say you should use the rotors for about 200 - 300km in everyday driving to bed the rotors in)

anyway, that is done, so i thought i'd start trying to bed the pads in... took it for a drive, warmed the rotors up slowly first with long braking, and then a few harder stops, before really starting to stand on the brakes.... the thing is, it still didn't seem to pull up that well.... sure, its better than most standard cars, however, it is nowhere near the level that i was led to believe/hoping that these pads were at... i did many repeated hard stops, as it felt the pads weren't up to temp yet, yet it only marginally got better, sometimes it got worse (almost as if the pads were fading)

after i got home (had a bit of a cooling off drive afterwards) i had a look at the thermal indicator paint on the discs, the first level (green) was a bit discoloured to a pinky/white colour, which has now gone back to green (either that, or i'm seeing things... do these paints change colour back to original after they've cooled down?)

that green indicator states that the rotors have reached at least 458 degrees celcius... you can tell that the rotors have been warm, by the colouration of them (they haven't turned blue or anything though) and you can see some resin deposits in spots around the rotor, however, its not all the way around... just in spots....

this is from the Ferodo website on bedding in the pads:

"When bedding in the car always try to bed on used rotors. If bedding on new rotors follow the rotor bedding instructions of the manufacturer, as it is important to heat cycle them first before bedding the pads. After fitting the new pads prepare the car by blocking off 50 percent of the brake cooling / air ducts to speed the “heat up time”. When leaving the pit lane apply brake gently at low speed to ensure pads are fitted correctly, build up temperature progressively to approx 350° C (670° F). This enables the heat to distribute around all areas of the pad.

When brakes are at suitable temperature begin bedding process, achieve approximately 70 percent of race speed then perform 25-30 brake applications at half normal race pedal pressure holding on for 4 seconds.

When this is completed use a slowing down lap to allow brakes to cool. Return to the pit lane and allow pads to cool completely, check rotor appearance. Transfer film should be constant around rotor face, any “patchy” deposit will result in brake pedal judder. The use of temperature paint on rotors enables more accurate bedding procedures."

now obviously i can't bed the pads on a race track/at race track speeds etc....

any ideas of what i'm doing wrong/ways to improve my braking/bedding effectiveness?

[djr81]

Hi all,

well, i finished my brake upgrade... I now have fitted to the car:

DBA4000 Slotted rotors on the front

Machined standard rotors on the rear

Ferodo DS2500 Brake Pads front and rear

Motul RBF600 fluid...

anyway, i have driven softly on this setup (just day-to-day driving) for about 200km now, without really giving it any real heat etc, to give the rotors some time to bed in (as per DBA instructions, which say you should use the rotors for about 200 - 300km in everyday driving to bed the rotors in)

anyway, that is done, so i thought i'd start trying to bed the pads in... took it for a drive, warmed the rotors up slowly first with long braking, and then a few harder stops, before really starting to stand on the brakes.... the thing is, it still didn't seem to pull up that well.... sure, its better than most standard cars, however, it is nowhere near the level that i was led to believe/hoping that these pads were at... i did many repeated hard stops, as it felt the pads weren't up to temp yet, yet it only marginally got better, sometimes it got worse (almost as if the pads were fading)

after i got home (had a bit of a cooling off drive afterwards) i had a look at the thermal indicator paint on the discs, the first level (green) was a bit discoloured to a pinky/white colour, which has now gone back to green (either that, or i'm seeing things... do these paints change colour back to original after they've cooled down?)

that green indicator states that the rotors have reached at least 458 degrees celcius... you can tell that the rotors have been warm, by the colouration of them (they haven't turned blue or anything though) and you can see some resin deposits in spots around the rotor, however, its not all the way around... just in spots....

this is from the Ferodo website on bedding in the pads:

"When bedding in the car always try to bed on used rotors. If bedding on new rotors follow the rotor bedding instructions of the manufacturer, as it is important to heat cycle them first before bedding the pads. After fitting the new pads prepare the car by blocking off 50 percent of the brake cooling / air ducts to speed the “heat up time”. When leaving the pit lane apply brake gently at low speed to ensure pads are fitted correctly, build up temperature progressively to approx 350° C (670° F). This enables the heat to distribute around all areas of the pad.

When brakes are at suitable temperature begin bedding process, achieve approximately 70 percent of race speed then perform 25-30 brake applications at half normal race pedal pressure holding on for 4 seconds.

When this is completed use a slowing down lap to allow brakes to cool. Return to the pit lane and allow pads to cool completely, check rotor appearance. Transfer film should be constant around rotor face, any “patchy” deposit will result in brake pedal judder. The use of temperature paint on rotors enables more accurate bedding procedures."

now obviously i can't bed the pads on a race track/at race track speeds etc....

any ideas of what i'm doing wrong/ways to improve my braking/bedding effectiveness?

Brakes are really hard to do unless you drive the car, but anyway.

There are some possibilities:

You have glazed the pads.

You haven't got them hot enough, ie not bedded them in as yet.

The heat paint should permanently change colour, from memory they all go white (although the middle one may go yellow, can't remember)

[bazr33]

from what i have heard

ferodos arent the best brake pads

i have always gone with either bendex, or a brand i have just tried recently are ultimates

My last pads scored my rotors and sqealed like a pig.

These ultimates are pretty good at the moment, no noise, and feels like it stops better then before. Only problem i think the shop said is that they are a bit dusty.

The other thing was the ultimates dont need to be bedded in, get in and do whateva ya want.

[AzzurrA]

bendix ultimates better than ferodo DS2500? don't think so... though i guess it depends on what you're looking for in a brake pad...

[predator]

Maybe you are expecting too much from the pad?

I went from a crappy old pad to RB74's over the weekend. Just did about 2 stops from 60-30km/hr and then 6 stops from 110-70km/hr (as they state in their instructions) and then drove it for 15 mins as stated to let them to cool off. They seem fine.

The procedure for those DS2500's seems pretty extreme.

[Bl4cK32]

Id say with brand new pads in there, u might have glazed them as said above. You may have to take out the pads to check, and scuff em up a little. When bedding in my last set of pads, you could really smell em, and see a little smoke...

Procedure seems extreme, as they are track pads

[slip]

it try going out and doing some big repeated stomps. 100kmh +. worked for my rb74's. They were shocking untill i got stuck into them a bit, really hot, got on them really hard, and they were fine after that.

[race_snooze]

I have about the same set up on my r33, drove around softish for about 200k, at first they were worse then stock. Then I gave them hell some really big hard stops from 120k down to 0 they are fantastic now.

[AzzurrA]

yeah, i gave them a fairly good punishing over the last few days, like some really hard stops, and not only once, but repeatedly...

[RAZOR32]

I,ve just had the same problem i think?

I just put R34 GTR Brembos on the front with DBA 5000 rotors and ferodo

DS 2500's pads. I bed in the rotors for 300kms and then tryed to bed the pads in and no luck i think i have glazed the pads as well?

[Lunatic Dancer]

hmmm...when I did my r33 conversion with rb74 front and comp2 rears...

I didnt bet in my rotors..

had brand new dba4000 fronts and SL rears..

after i had changed everything over, went to business park and did the tyres thing..

warm up...70-20 a few times moderately, then 120-20 HARD a few times....

then cruised back to work shop...letting them cool..

after the hard stops you should be able to smell the pads and probably see some smoke..

so really i never bedded my discs as normal...

stops on a dime....MUCH MUCH better than stock 180 stuff...