Disadvantages Of Wolf 3d Ecu's?

[D-limo]

Hi I bought my Ceffy (RB25) with a plug-in Wolf 3D V4 installed. It's running on base maps atm...

Have heard alot of negative comments about this ecu. What makes them worse than Microtech/EMS/Haltech etc?

The car will be track dedicated for the moment.. Should I be looking at a more street friendly ecu if I plan on rego-ing it later on?

Edit: Running a HKS TO4e kit, stock head/cams, Splitfire coil packs, Suspected Z32 AFM and larger injectors :

Edited June 13, 2006 by Drift_Limo

[mad082]

it comes down to what your tuner can tune. all ecu's have their pro's and con's. some are easier to tune than others. power fc is probably the most common ecu on skylines, but this doesn't mean its the best. from what i have seen it is one the most limited of them, as it can't run auto's very well. it also requires you to retain the air flow meter.

the power fc is also used for the 'wank' factor. people can set things themselves and show off to their mates. but as soon as paulr33 reads this thread he will recommend the power fc over anything else.

but as i said to start off with, talk to your tuner. if there is no one within a 3 hour drive that tunes a power fc it would be a really dumb idea to get one. if your local tuner can tune wolf then keep it. if they tune haltech, then sell it and get a haltech.

Edited June 13, 2006 by mad082

[D-limo]

Well I would be getting it tuned by George May who is the QLD distributor for Wolf ems.. So hopefully he knows his shizz.

[mad082]

if you are close to them then go with that.

[sleak]

steer clear of george mays. your best option is to drive to someone who 1. has a dyno, and 2. has experience with your engine and that computer. I have had my own personal experience with george and will say I was extremely dissappointed with the results. I ended up paying alot of money for nothing really.

I ended up taking the car to redcliff dyno where they looked at the tuning and laughed and showed me how dodgy it was, and they arent even wolf distributers! they tuned it up really well and treat any car like their own.

just my experiences with george mays.

Rhys

[djr81]

it comes down to what your tuner can tune. all ecu's have their pro's and con's. some are easier to tune than others.

Too true. The main difference between an ECU that runs solely on the MAP sensor & one that uses the MAF (Actually Power FC uses a combination of MAF & MAP, so this is a fairly gross over simplification on my part) is that getting an engine to run well at idle & low TPS measurements is much easier using airflow meters than manifold pressure. The tune should get done quicker & be cheaper.

power fc is probably the most common ecu on skylines, but this doesn't mean its the best. from what i have seen it is one the most limited of them, as it can't run auto's very well. it also requires you to retain the air flow meter.

An amazingly inept comment. Can you name a PNP ECU that will run both the motor & the auto trannie? Not the Power FC, but then no one with any sense would recommend and ECU install like that simply because it will destroy your transmission in pretty short order.

the power fc is also used for the 'wank' factor. people can set things themselves and show off to their mates. but as soon as paulr33 reads this thread he will recommend the power fc over anything else.

People can also quite easily run data loggers, ensure that they are not running too much ignition advance use the peak/hold function on the display etc etc etc.

but as i said to start off with, talk to your tuner. if there is no one within a 3 hour drive that tunes a power fc it would be a really dumb idea to get one. if your local tuner can tune wolf then keep it. if they tune haltech, then sell it and get a haltech.

Unless you are continuously modding your engine, you should only need a tune done once. Get it done properly.

There is nothing inherently wrong with the Wolf.

[lukits01]

Ive had a Wolf3D in my auto R33 for couple of years now,

no complaints whatsoever

havent used any of the extra features though like

turbo timer

anti lag

rotational idle

not sure if it has traction control

[PHATR32]

it also requires you to retain the air flow meter.

the power fc is also used for the 'wank' factor. people can set things themselves and show off to their mates. but as soon as paulr33 reads this thread he will recommend the power fc over anything else.

that is the stupidest shit ive read today

Edited June 13, 2006 by PHATR32

[Sydneykid]

power fc … what i have seen it is one the most limited of them, as it can't run auto's.

Since everyone else is ripping into you I might as well have go. Kick you while you are down to make sure you don’t get up.

I have yet to find an ECU of any BRAND at any PRICE that has the ignition cut and retard logic programming for the Nissan auto. It requires extensive (expensive) programming and no aftermarket ECU manufacturer has been able to justify the cost.

cheers

PS, yes I have driven a Wolf with an auto and it was shit, rough changes, flaring, slippage etc etc all the things you would expect to encounter without the ignition cut/interrupt and retard programs.

Edited June 13, 2006 by Sydneykid

[djr81]

That is the stupidest shit ive read today

Yeah, but it is only early....

Edited June 13, 2006 by djr81

[MerlinTheHapyPig]

Too true. The main difference between an ECU that runs solely on the MAP sensor & one that uses the MAF (Actually Power FC uses a combination of MAF & MAP, so this is a fairly gross over simplification on my part) is that getting an engine to run well at idle & low TPS measurements is much easier using airflow meters than manifold pressure. The tune should get done quicker & be cheaper.

how do you mean? Normal Power FC's use AFM, there is a version that uses a MAP sensor, but they don't use both.

Wolf3d v4 for example can run either MAP or AFM or TPS, or a combination of two of the above.

[djr81]

What I mean is that the inputs to the Power FC (Not the Jetro version) include both the manifold pressure (This is the y axis on the maps) as well as inputs from the AFM's. So the system actually uses both. Most ECU's are more reliant on the MAP high up in the rev/load area of the maps than on the AFM's.

Hope that makes sense.

[MerlinTheHapyPig]

um, doesn't really make sense to me. I haven't used powerfc before, but i was under the impression that it used afm only

nissan ecu doesn't have a map sensor input, where does it read MAP from?

[djr81]

Ah, well maybe I have got myself confused aswell.

Can anyone offer an opinion of what the y (vertical or load) axis on the PFC is, if not a MAP input. The horizontal (X) axis is clearly rpm.

[MerlinTheHapyPig]

load axis is usually a calculation based on AFM voltage...

[NismoR31Jet]

My wifes car runs a version 4 plus plug in wolf and it is great.

it is very tuneable, it has maps for both ignition and fuel at every 125 rpm and 8 or 9 load maps.

Can run extra injectors as it has it's own microfueller, as a really easy to use laptop program for tuning and setting up, and all the manuals and so on are downloadable in PDF form of the website.

And my wifes car was an auto and it ran fine with the wolf, as a plug in they work ok with the auto, but a wire in needs some work to make the auto computer talk to the wolf.

[D-limo]

Thanks everyone for the input..I'm a newb to the engine management side of things so this is a little over whelming lol.

So there should be no idle problems on a manual RB25 with an experienced Wolf tuner?

What does 'Wide band AFR' mean?

[NismoR31Jet]

Wideband AFR means on the hand controller screen you get real time air/fuel ratio read out.....but you do need a specific wide band oxy sensor.

Idle is fine....the plug in wolf should use the original IAC to do the idle control.

[217/r33]

Sorry to intrude on the post but how does the WOLF 3D compare to the PowerFC. What advantages does the PFC have and the Wolf3D over PFC ??

I'm looking for an ECU upgrade at a later stage and stuck between PFC, haltech and wolf3d...

[rob82]

The wolf has pretty much all the maps a motec has with about 1/10 of refineness. They have all the maps in there and some of them work some of them dont. I've tuned two cars with wolf(and thats as many as I ever want to) one was a plugin for a r33 that was fairly standard all the usual mods - exhaust, FMIC, boost control etc. I found that it controlled the idle quite nicely it also seemed that the timing control was quite precise and the fueling was fairly consitent and tunable.

My second expereince was a GTIR pulsar plugin running a gt28 BB turbo, 440cc GTR Inj exhaust, FMIC blah blah balh. The idle control didn't work, the phase angle of the timing was incorrect (minimum timing number was 22 degs - its not likely that you need less than 22deg in a turbo SR20 is it!!!) and the angle couldn't be retarded. Contacted wolf - whats wrong standard ECU idles fine with the timing in the correct spot put plugin wolf in and timing is wrong. THey are still addiment that there phase angles are correct. Now the car had 750cc inj to begin with which where absolutely impossible to tune down low so we replaced them with 440cc inj and it made it just bearable.

The thing I noticed which said it all to me was that when change from 250rpm increments to 125rpm increments and making no changes it then ironed out certain fueling bumps during a WOT ramp - what the??? This indicates that there interpolation between cells is just shithouse which I think is one of the biggest problems thats why you need 600000000 cells to tune a WOLF.

Edited June 13, 2006 by rob82