Disadvantages Of Wolf 3d Ecu's?

[rob82]

While we are on the subject of AFM Vs MAP

Is there a reason why OEM MAP sensor works so well?

I mean honda's have always been using MAP sensor and if you buy a PFC for say a B-series engine it still uses the MAP sensor while retaining the tuning features with no idle or fuel economy drawbacks

Its probably due to the fact that OEM manufacture's have a much more calculated equation of cylinder fill rather then just using a MAP sensor as a load axis for a fuel and ignition map. And as for MAF's not being a restriction while I would not like to believe it, its not true. Simplist case is a s13 or 14 SR20 with the standard MAF, now you cannot tell me that it is not a restriction.

[rob82]

Map sensors don't necesarily work very well on all engines. They work well generally on single throttle body setups.

They don't work well at all on engines that have wild camshafts with crazy overlap. This is due to the pulsations in the intake manifold after the throttle body(s). One of my previous vw engines for example ran a 294 degree intake duration with 117 degree overlap. That with the quad throttle made it pull -8 to -10 on the vacuum/boost gauge at idle. Not to mention that the signal bounced all over the place. This would have made the low end tune very bad if it weren't for one of the clever load configurations the wolf can use. Basiclly it allows you to use a TPS-MAP change-over point for your load sensing. So the car tunes like a naturally aspirated car till a preset point, at which it switches to map to allow you to do the rest of the tuning. This feature is what makes it possible to tune a GTR with its 6 throttle bodies more easily.

The haltech e6x has that capability too.

So what duration was it at 50 thou???

[GTRNUR]

From memory it was 0.430" lift at the cam, 0.530" lift at the valve with the 1.25:1 ratio rockers. The ramp angle on the cam is pretty modest from memory. It would have been around the 260-265 mark though i'd have to dig out the cam card to be sure. Sorry... off topic.

[rob82]

From memory it was 0.430" lift at the cam, 0.530" lift at the valve with the 1.25:1 ratio rockers. The ramp angle on the cam is pretty modest from memory. It would have been around the 260-265 mark though i'd have to dig out the cam card to be sure. Sorry... off topic.

Very modest ramps I would have though if it was 294 on the seat and 260 at 50. Even still that's quite a resonable camshaft we usually run up to about 230-235 at 50 thou on standard delco ECU's before going aftermarket. Usually because aftermarket involves sequential injection. Off topic too... Opps

[raddavey]

The Wolf site is updated with a whole range of new parts etc

The new software with datalogging is also out but its costs $90.

Has anyone used it yet? Can they comment on how good it is?

Is the LSM11 sensor the only one that can be used because in the help file it says lsu4 sensor.

I just want it to log all the wolf data with an accurate AFR then be able to go back through it step by step like the autronic datalogging.

[raddavey]

Just to let anyone know the new software is totally crap.

Don't buy it whatever you do. It doesn't even work correctly at all. I feel much better using the old software.

Looks like wbo2 is on the cards now.

[Al]

Just to let anyone know the new software is totally crap.

Don't buy it whatever you do. It doesn't even work correctly at all. I feel much better using the old software.

Looks like wbo2 is on the cards now.

Have you called Steve to ask how to use it properly? What is "wbo2"?

My car has just been tuned using the new laptop software and it is GREAT!!

Both my mechanic and i stated that this is honestly 10X better than the previous tunning package. My car now ideals with only a 40rpm variance, at A/F ratios of 14.2, even with aircon, lights, etc; it's all smooth. I couldn't beleive what a differance a laptop upgrade could make to the tune of the ecu. The new software even has "data logging" :PBJ:, great for track days, etc.

I give Steve, at AEM (Wolf designer/manufacturer), a HUGE thumbs up!!

Anyone that has the knowledge to tune the Wolf, should not hesatate to upgrade their software.

Can't wait for the Wolf 3D V5 to be released. Fully sequential injection (up to 8cyl), limited self tunning/learning and a whole lot more .

The hand controller looks sweet too, but probably a little too big :. Obviously geared towards race use/display.

[GTRNUR]

I'm hoping they'll do a trade back to upgrade the version 5 from the version 4, like they did when the v4 was release, v3 owners could upgrade and 1/2 the price.

I think a V5 in my GTR will do very nicely!

Looking forward to seeing the new software too, ordering it next week...

[Lukaz]

Ok guy's I got the dyno sheet off my mechanic, it show's the comparison between the tune with apexi PFC and then with wolf3d.

Car was tuned at Rank rotary.

[Cubes]

A motor is an airpump.

It all depends how the tuner tunes the car.

It looks as if the wolf is actually running a little more boost either that or the tuner of the pfc was extremely conservative with its ign. timing and running crap rich afrs

[GTRNUR]

A motor is an airpump.

It all depends how the tuner tunes the car.

It looks as if the wolf is actually running a little more boost either that or the tuner of the pfc was extremely conservative with its ign. timing and running crap rich afrs

I agree with that statement 100%. It makes no sense that one computer makes more power than another. It all comes down to tuner experience.

From what i've seen there are FC tuners, and FC tuners. Same applies for the wolf as well.

[paulr33]

spot on.

there is no different between stock ecu, powerfc, hks fcon v, autronic, moetc, emanage and anything else. they each have their own feature set and addons but the same principal applies. ign and inj maps. some other load bearing corrections and so on. they should each make the same power given tuned correctly.

[ZiiN]

The wolf has pretty much all the maps a motec has with about 1/10 of refineness. They have all the maps in there and some of them work some of them dont. I've tuned two cars with wolf(and thats as many as I ever want to) one was a plugin for a r33 that was fairly standard all the usual mods - exhaust, FMIC, boost control etc. I found that it controlled the idle quite nicely it also seemed that the timing control was quite precise and the fueling was fairly consitent and tunable.

My second expereince was a GTIR pulsar plugin running a gt28 BB turbo, 440cc GTR Inj exhaust, FMIC blah blah balh. The idle control didn't work, the phase angle of the timing was incorrect (minimum timing number was 22 degs - its not likely that you need less than 22deg in a turbo SR20 is it!!!) and the angle couldn't be retarded. Contacted wolf - whats wrong standard ECU idles fine with the timing in the correct spot put plugin wolf in and timing is wrong. THey are still addiment that there phase angles are correct. Now the car had 750cc inj to begin with which where absolutely impossible to tune down low so we replaced them with 440cc inj and it made it just bearable.

The thing I noticed which said it all to me was that when change from 250rpm increments to 125rpm increments and making no changes it then ironed out certain fueling bumps during a WOT ramp - what the??? This indicates that there interpolation between cells is just shithouse which I think is one of the biggest problems thats why you need 600000000 cells to tune a WOLF.

with the GTi-R did you buy the aftermarket optical trigger disk for the dizzy? I owned a HNU12 bluebird running a wolf3dv4 and even though i had direct fire ignition, timing problems and restrictions are going to happen unless u use the optical trigger disk.

My experiance with wolfs is that they are a fairly good system, finding somone to tune them and tune them well is a problem.

Mine was tuned fairly well and not even on a AWD dyno by Redline rotary by alex blackson(had an expensive problem on a 4wd drive dyno with a local PFC tuner who had no idea how to tune wolfs), anyone in the sydney area with a wolf, or wanting more infomation on them should talk to him, he is a f**king genius.

Wolfs have plenty of extra options and capabilites and they have no released the V400 and also new display units which will help them get into the market better.

They are a very good bit of gear when tuned correctly but many have problems because they are on of the harder ECU's out there for tuning purposes.

In saying that i will probably go for a PFC with the R33 simply because its a bit cheaper ($500) and the ease of having plenty of tuners around and not having to go all the way to sydney, but will see when the time comes and that its not going into a car with huge amount of mods or planned mods as the bluebird had

[rob82]

with the GTi-R did you buy the aftermarket optical trigger disk for the dizzy? I owned a HNU12 bluebird running a wolf3dv4 and even though i had direct fire ignition, timing problems and restrictions are going to happen unless u use the optical trigger disk.

My experiance with wolfs is that they are a fairly good system, finding somone to tune them and tune them well is a problem.

Mine was tuned fairly well and not even on a AWD dyno by Redline rotary by alex blackson(had an expensive problem on a 4wd drive dyno with a local PFC tuner who had no idea how to tune wolfs), anyone in the sydney area with a wolf, or wanting more infomation on them should talk to him, he is a f**king genius.

Wolfs have plenty of extra options and capabilites and they have no released the V400 and also new display units which will help them get into the market better.

They are a very good bit of gear when tuned correctly but many have problems because they are on of the harder ECU's out there for tuning purposes.

In saying that i will probably go for a PFC with the R33 simply because its a bit cheaper ($500) and the ease of having plenty of tuners around and not having to go all the way to sydney, but will see when the time comes and that its not going into a car with huge amount of mods or planned mods as the bluebird had

Its was a plugin ECU. I personally would never put a Wolf3d into any of my customers cars. From my expereinces there is just too much greif involved when they go wrong. I think their software is clunky and shite and half of the functions dont work. And for them to start charging for software what a rip!!!!!!

Say does anybody want to buy a wolf3d its been QA by them which means its tip top!!!!

Edited July 19, 2006 by rob82

[rob82]

spot on.

there is no different between stock ecu, powerfc, hks fcon v, autronic, moetc, emanage and anything else. they each have their own feature set and addons but the same principal applies. ign and inj maps. some other load bearing corrections and so on. they should each make the same power given tuned correctly.

Really is that the case hey. Maybe you should call Simon from Nizpro and ask the power difference on Brian Lords XR6T when converted from the wizz bang M800 back to the standard ECU bout 20rwkw I think he said and I trust his judgement.

[Cubes]

Really is that the case hey. Maybe you should call Simon from Nizpro and ask the power difference on Brian Lords XR6T when converted from the wizz bang M800 back to the standard ECU bout 20rwkw I think he said and I trust his judgement.

Clearly the tune was not equal then... OR some form of restriction within the STOCK ecu was causing problems.

[GTRNUR]

Its was a plugin ECU. I personally would never put a Wolf3d into any of my customers cars. From my expereinces there is just too much greif involved when they go wrong. I think their software is clunky and shite and half of the functions dont work. And for them to start charging for software what a rip!!!!!!

Say does anybody want to buy a wolf3d its been QA by them which means its tip top!!!!

Everyone has their right to an opinion...

Really is that the case hey. Maybe you should call Simon from Nizpro and ask the power difference on Brian Lords XR6T when converted from the wizz bang M800 back to the standard ECU bout 20rwkw I think he said and I trust his judgement.

So what if there is a power diference, it doesn't mean didly squat! I don't know Simon but if you ask him i'd bet you that he'd say that all things being equal there is no diference from one ecu to the next. Engines pump air and burn fuel. If the AFR's and ignition timing are correct, the power should be the same.

It astounds me that this simple fact of physics continues to escape some people.... too many brochure reading experts around these days....(yes i have seen tokyo drift, and that line is GOLD. Too bad about the rest of the film...).

[rob82]

Clearly the tune was not equal then... OR some form of restriction within the STOCK ecu was causing problems.

The stock ECU actually made more power. I would have put this down to the fact that the cam control is about a thousand times better than motec's.

[raddavey]

I just found with the new software it crashes a lot, jumps around when datalogging (ie jumps up to 30000rpm) and the gauges dont seem to keep up with the engine.

However this was on a p3 600 Laptop and on Wolf firmware 4.56 not the latest.

I might try it on a faster PC and see if that helps.

[ZiiN]

Its was a plugin ECU. I personally would never put a Wolf3d into any of my customers cars. From my expereinces there is just too much greif involved when they go wrong. I think their software is clunky and shite and half of the functions dont work. And for them to start charging for software what a rip!!!!!!

Say does anybody want to buy a wolf3d its been QA by them which means its tip top!!!!

reguardless of it being a plugin unit, the optical trigger disk goes into the distributor so, you still needed it... and that was why you had all the problems, if you looked into the manuals you would have realised(its in there clear and simple). but whoever from wolf you talked to though should have told you unless you didnt tell them the GTiR was using a dizzy and they woulda just assumed it was like an silvia/180 sr20.

like you said though they have gone for all the technical shit and only the people who are experts at them can get it all to work. they arn't user friendly to tuners of your normal microtech/pfc and other common systems.