Optimax Extreme What’s Needed?

[THE_350GT]

Hey guys

Have done some searches is regards to this but can’t find anything that really answers my question. I have only used a tank of this and have to say that this fuel is excellent. My car has never gone so good, its like I’ve boosted it up. Much quicker power response and smooth power right up to red line.

I have done a little reading but convinced my self to only use it say for weekend use or every few tanks.

What needs to be done to run this stuff everyday every time in a skyline or you can run it with no problems.??

[bogcock]

fill it up with the extreme shit, and chuck the car on the dyno and get it tuned for that fuel

[THE_350GT]

fill it up with the extreme shit, and chuck the car on the dyno and get it tuned for that fuel

yeah sweet ,if that's all that is really needed. I've been told being ethanol I would need to change my fuel lines and some other stuff. So it that all crap.

Has anybody else experience a power increase like my self??

[Sydneykid]

As posted elsewhere (tip = try a search before you start a new thread)

We have been using Shell Optimax Extreme 100 ron exclusively since it became available in Sydney in the R33GTST. It has a PFC running the default ignition timing which knocks noticeably (dash warning) on 98 ron. In several months running the 100 ron we have not seen any dash warnings and the logged knock levels are less than 20. I have modified the injection maps for a target A/F ratio of 12 to 1.

I have heard all of the ethanol stories, eats fuel lines, blocks injectors, roots fuel pumps and gives your unborn two heads. So I have pulled the injectors a couple of times, checked the flow rates and guess what? No changes. Also I have cut the last 3 fuel filters open and guess what? No decomposed fuel hoses in there either. We also log fuel pressure and guess what? The fuel pump is showing no signs of dying. Sorry, I can’t test the unborn baby theory.

I have checked with everyone that I now who is running Shell Optimax Extreme 100 ron in their Skyline and I have yet to find anyone who can report eaten fuel lines, clogged injectors, blocked fuel filters or failed fuel pumps.

My suggestion, get on with it and reap the benefits.

cheers

Edited June 14, 2006 by Sydneykid

[Mr Italy!]

We have been using Shell Optimax Extreme 100 ron exclusively since it became available in Sydney in the R33GTST. It has a PFC running the default ignition timing which knocks noticeably (dash warning) on 98 ron. In several months running the 100 ron we have not seen any dash warnings and the logged knock levels are less than 20. I have modified the injection maps for a target A/F ratio of 12 to 1.

Do you know what was causing it to excessively knock even using the default ignition timing?

[THE_350GT]

As posted elsewhere (tip = try a search before you start a new thread)

We have been using Shell Optimax Extreme 100 ron exclusively since it became available in Sydney in the R33GTST. It has a PFC running the default ignition timing which knocks noticeably (dash warning) on 98 ron. In several months running the 100 ron we have not seen any dash warnings and the logged knock levels are less than 20. I have modified the injection maps for a target A/F ratio of 12 to 1.

I have heard all of the ethanol stories, eats fuel lines, blocks injectors, roots fuel pumps and gives your unborn two heads. So I have pulled the injectors a couple of times, checked the flow rates and guess what? No changes. Also I have cut the last 3 fuel filters open and guess what? No decomposed fuel hoses in there either. We also log fuel pressure and guess what? The fuel pump is showing no signs of dying. Sorry, I can’t test the unborn baby theory.

I have checked with everyone that I now who is running Shell Optimax Extreme 100 ron in their Skyline and I have yet to find anyone who can report eaten fuel lines, clogged injectors, blocked fuel filters or failed fuel pumps.

My suggestion, get on with it and reap the benefits.

cheers

Hey Sydney Kit

yeah I did do a search but nothing really quenched my thirst for the questions I had.

Maby I didn’t look hard enough.

But your info SPOT ON!! thank you for that, that’s all I really needed to hear.

Thanks

[xRHETTx]

So why isnt optimax extreme cheaper than regular 98 octane optimax, if it has ethanol in it?

Wasnt that the whole point of having ethanol in fuels?

[Mr Italy!]

I think it was to try to make the ethanol industry in Australia viable. But my dad told me the other day that the government is pulling out of the ethanol industry and they're gonna source it from overseas.

Really doesnt help the struggling sugar cain farmers up north. Good on you johny.

[someonestolecc]

So why isnt optimax extreme cheaper than regular 98 octane optimax, if it has ethanol in it?

Wasnt that the whole point of having ethanol in fuels?

No, the government doesn't believe in free trade. They tariff the shit out of cheap Brasilian stuff to protect our own industry... which we didn't have till Johny made one for his school chums.

So.. that's why it ain't cheaper.

[No Crust Racing]

We can't get it here

[mokompri]

As posted elsewhere (tip = try a search before you start a new thread)

We have been using Shell Optimax Extreme 100 ron exclusively since it became available in Sydney in the R33GTST. It has a PFC running the default ignition timing which knocks noticeably (dash warning) on 98 ron. In several months running the 100 ron we have not seen any dash warnings and the logged knock levels are less than 20. I have modified the injection maps for a target A/F ratio of 12 to 1.

I have heard all of the ethanol stories, eats fuel lines, blocks injectors, roots fuel pumps and gives your unborn two heads. So I have pulled the injectors a couple of times, checked the flow rates and guess what? No changes. Also I have cut the last 3 fuel filters open and guess what? No decomposed fuel hoses in there either. We also log fuel pressure and guess what? The fuel pump is showing no signs of dying. Sorry, I can’t test the unborn baby theory.

I have checked with everyone that I now who is running Shell Optimax Extreme 100 ron in their Skyline and I have yet to find anyone who can report eaten fuel lines, clogged injectors, blocked fuel filters or failed fuel pumps.

My suggestion, get on with it and reap the benefits.

cheers

someone from the silvia forums used ethanol based petrol in his old CA silvia, and it caused his rubber fuel lines to expand and eventually caused leaking fuel in certain places. he went back to non ethanol based petrol and its fine again now. so while it may be ok in newer cars, i dont think you should be giving a blank cheque to everyone saying its all good, i would say you should be cautious with it, especially in older cars.

the warning given by manufacturers that older cars shouldnt run it, is probably also something to consider

[raz0r$harP.UK]

someone from the silvia forums used ethanol based petrol in his old CA silvia, and it caused his rubber fuel lines to expand and eventually caused leaking fuel in certain places. he went back to non ethanol based petrol and its fine again now. so while it may be ok in newer cars, i dont think you should be giving a blank cheque to everyone saying its all good, i would say you should be cautious with it, especially in older cars.

the warning given by manufacturers that older cars shouldnt run it, is probably also something to consider

And you should read carefully next time. Gary is talking about Optimax Extreme, not just any ethanol blended fuel. He has no issues with fuel line damage with Extreme. I have had similar experiences to his. My pump and lines were tested following a switch to Extreme and had no problems.

[mokompri]

And you should read carefully next time. Gary is talking about Optimax Extreme, not just any ethanol blended fuel. He has no issues with fuel line damage with Extreme. I have had similar experiences to his. My pump and lines were tested following a switch to Extreme and had no problems.

no need for funny faces, maybe next time you shouldnt assume, just because i didnt specify which fuel it was doesnt mean it wasnt optimax extreme. to make you happy i'll just add that it was infact optimax extreme 100ron fuel. and im not saying everyone will have problems, im saying its not full proof - and leaking fuel is not a minor concern

[WazR32GTSt]

so you have proof that the fuel caused the line damage and it wasn't in fact simply the age of the car? or some other reason?

think about it - 5% ethanol in fuel makes up a very small overall volume of ethanol that is in a fuel line at any one time

add to that that ethanol is not corrosive and i don't see the issue

whenever someone has a problem its natural to try to place some blame - i don't think optimax extreme is the answer

[GT-R LM]

i got my gtr lm just before xmas.

mods- exhaust front mount and 14 psi std computer, oil cooler.

i ran 98 in it about 4 times then i changed to opti extreme from the first tank the car immidialtly felt better in drivability and power i have never filled on anything other than opti extreme. since then 25,000km of driving on extreme and couldn't be happier and not a problem whatsoever.....

[someonestolecc]

Question is how would you test your lines? Fill up and look? No thanks.

Can I ask if fuel lines are the same material/condition all over the car? If so I might just nick a small piece and drop it into a small container and see what it does to it.

[scathing]

add to that that ethanol is not corrosive and i don't see the issue

Do I take your word for it, or do I take Toyota's?

Toyota, a market leader in petrol-electric hybrid vehicles, has resisted the technology amid worries about the impact of highly corrosive ethanol on rubber seals in the engine, the Financial Times said.

One of you is the second largest car company in the world and the most profitable, with an enviable reputation for reliability and build quality. They would have to replace the damaged parts under warranty should it fail after giving this fuel the all-clear, and if the seals burst and cause a fire they might even be criminally liable (like the old Ford Pinto).

The other is some random bloke of an unknown reputation, with no access to scientific testing or engineering, nor do they have a responsibility to ensure that their advice is safe or accurate.

The thing is, OEMs will err on the safe side. If there's a chance it'll f**k up, they must assume it will. Anyone who's come from a support background will know that the last thing you give someone is choice, because the great unwashed will inevitably choose the wrong one. And due to our nanny state your mistake is their fault.

My 2003 Nissan isn't approved by Nissan Australia to run fuels of any ethanol blend, although cars made in 2003 have gone to countries that use ethanol fuels and I doubt Australia's market is big enough to justify a custom run of vehicles. But, at the same time, I only put Optimax Extreme in right before I hit the track and chances are I've emptied the tank by the end of the day, at which point I put BP Ultimate back in.

I won't say that it'll definitely happen to any car, but if I see threads with people whinging about how their fuel lines / engine seals etc seem to have corroded away after they were using only ethanol-blended fuel for months and months, they can expect a "bwahahaha, sucks to be you" response. You were warned by the guys who make the car, and you chose to ignore it. Maybe based on Sydneykid's advice and his own testing you can sue him for the damage to your vehicle, but good luck with that.

[Sydneykid]

Do I take your word for it, or do I take Toyota's?

One of you is the second largest car company in the world and the most profitable, with an enviable reputation for reliability and build quality. They would have to replace the damaged parts under warranty should it fail after giving this fuel the all-clear, and if the seals burst and cause a fire they might even be criminally liable (like the old Ford Pinto).

The other is some random bloke of an unknown reputation, with no access to scientific testing or engineering, nor do they have a responsibility to ensure that their advice is safe or accurate.

The thing is, OEMs will err on the safe side. If there's a chance it'll f**k up, they must assume it will. Anyone who's come from a support background will know that the last thing you give someone is choice, because the great unwashed will inevitably choose the wrong one. And due to our nanny state your mistake is their fault.

My 2003 Nissan isn't approved by Nissan Australia to run fuels of any ethanol blend, although cars made in 2003 have gone to countries that use ethanol fuels and I doubt Australia's market is big enough to justify a custom run of vehicles. But, at the same time, I only put Optimax Extreme in right before I hit the track and chances are I've emptied the tank by the end of the day, at which point I put BP Ultimate back in.

I won't say that it'll definitely happen to any car, but if I see threads with people whinging about how their fuel lines / engine seals etc seem to have corroded away after they were using only ethanol-blended fuel for months and months, they can expect a "bwahahaha, sucks to be you" response. You were warned by the guys who make the car, and you chose to ignore it. Maybe based on Sydneykid's advice and his own testing you can sue him for the damage to your vehicle, but good luck with that.

I suggest you ring Toyota and ask them;

Do they mean 100% ethanol?

Or 10% ethanol?

Or 5% ethanol.?

They (like Nissan) are conveniently vague and simply lump all ethanol fuels into one bucket. And any chemical engineer will tell you that is technically incorrect. They are simply saving their ass from any possibility (no mater how small), that one of their customers somewhere in the world might use 100% ethanol and have a problem. Remember this is not an Australian edict, it’s WORLD WIDE. So they have to take into account the most extreme cases in 3rd world countries where some guy will boil up a pot of sugar cane and poor it into his Camry.

Think about what we are discussing here. Ethanol supposedly eats stuff from the in side out. If this was happening, then I could see it in the fuel filter when I cut it open. Or in the injectors when I clean them. I don’t, haven’t in the R33GTST for almost 6 months, that’s 1,300 litres or ~30 full tanks full of Optimax Extreme.

I have tested it, I haven’t found a problem. If you are afraid, then test it yourself. If you don’t want to do that, then don’t use it. It is that simple.

cheers

[scathing]

They (like Nissan) are conveniently vague and simply lump all ethanol fuels into one bucket. And any chemical engineer will tell you that is technically incorrect. They are simply saving their ass from any possibility (no mater how small), that one of their customers somewhere in the world might use 100% ethanol and have a problem.

The data Toyota Australia has supplied to the Australian Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries is pretty specific. If I called them, I'm sure they'd refer me to Read The Friendly Message they sent to the FCAI.

So they're not thinking about some rogue sugar cane farmer in Far North Queensland pouring the stuff the Bundy distilleries won't buy into his Land Cruiser or Patrol when they came up with their guidelines.

And Nissan is just as specific on their guidelines pertaining to up to a 10% blend. Any Nissan they've brought in prior, in their book, shouldn't. And they don't recommend running more than E10.

As for grey imports, Nissan Australia has always washed their hands of them so perhaps Nissan Japan built R33s with an ethanol-using market in mind.

Anyway, if it works for you that's great. And if any OEM can guarantee you quality control in their manufacturing process (and that of all their component suppliers) that's 100% consistent, making your test proof positive that it will work for every other owner out there, then everyone else should be safe despite Nissan's due consideration and testing (which may or may not apply to you).

As I said, my car is pre-2004 and I use Optimax Extreme. But I'm under no illusions that it'll be a-OK and I can reasonably complain to get it fixed under warranty should it go wrong and the fuel blend is to blame.

[Sydneykid]

The data Toyota Australia has supplied to the Australian Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries is pretty specific. If I called them, I'm sure they'd refer me to Read The Friendly Message they sent to the FCAI.

So they're not thinking about some rogue sugar cane farmer in Far North Queensland pouring the stuff the Bundy distilleries won't buy into his Land Cruiser or Patrol when they came up with their guidelines.

And Nissan is just as specific on their guidelines pertaining to up to a 10% blend. Any Nissan they've brought in prior, in their book, shouldn't. And they don't recommend running more than E10.

As for grey imports, Nissan Australia has always washed their hands of them so perhaps Nissan Japan built R33s with an ethanol-using market in mind.

Anyway, if it works for you that's great. And if any OEM can guarantee you quality control in their manufacturing process (and that of all their component suppliers) that's 100% consistent, making your test proof positive that it will work for every other owner out there, then everyone else should be safe despite Nissan's due consideration and testing (which may or may not apply to you).

As I said, my car is pre-2004 and I use Optimax Extreme. But I'm under no illusions that it'll be a-OK and I can reasonably complain to get it fixed under warranty should it go wrong and the fuel blend is to blame.

I must be having a dumb day, I don't understand what it is you are are trying to say.

Lets go though the potential problems as listed on http://www.fcai.com.au/ethanol.php/2006/04/00000005.html

one by one;

Vehicles with carburettor fuel systems may experience hot fuel handling concerns. This is because the vapour pressure of fuel with ethanol will be greater (if the base fuel is not chemically adjusted) and probability of vapour lock or hot restartability problems will be increased.

I have not experienced this problem, since R32/33/34’s are fuel injected I doubt that we ever will

As a solvent, ethanol attacks both the metallic and rubber based fuels lines, and other fuel system components.

I have checked this in the 1 X R32GTST, 2 X R32GTR’s, 1 X Stagea RS4, 1 X R33GTST and 5 Hondas. Not a sign, fuel filters and injectors are perfect.

Ethanol also has an affinity to water that can result in corrosion of fuel tanks and fuel lines. Rust resulting from this corrosion can ultimately block the fuel supply rendering the engine inoperable. Water in the fuel system can also result in the engine hesitating and running roughly.

Since R32/33/34’s run closed fuel systems, via the carbon canister, hygroscopic action is virtually impossible. Water in the fuel from a service station can occur regardless of whether it contains ethanol or not

Fuel Injected Engines

In addition to the issues mentioned above for carburettor equipped engines, the use of ethanol blended petrol in fuel injection systems will result in early deterioration of components such as injector seals, delivery pipes, and fuel pump and regulator.

I have checked this in the 1 X R32GTST, 2 X R32GTR’s, 1 X Stagea RS4, 1 X R33GTST and 5 Hondas. Not a sign, fuel filters and injectors are perfect.

Mechanical fuel injection systems and earlier electronic systems may not be able to fully compensate for the lean-out effect of ethanol blended petrol, resulting in hesitation or flat-spots during acceleration.

The cars with Power FC’s actually run better on Optimax Extreme as their base mapping is done for 100 ron fuel. It doesn't seem to have any effect that I can notice on the standard ECU equiped vehicles, and I am trained by experience to feel for even small changes in engine running.

Difficulty in starting and engine hesitation after cold start can also result.

I have noticed this, only on the R33GTST with the Power FC, a slight tweak of the cold start injector dwell fixed it. We have not noticed anything on the standard ECU equipped cars.

Exhaust And Evaporative Emission Levels

Lean-out resulting from the oxygenating effect of ethanol in the fuel may affect exhaust emissions.

I don’t care

Of more concern is that fuel containing ethanol can increase permeation emissions from fuel system components, particularly those that have aged for nearly 20 years. Therefore the increased vapour pressure of fuel with ethanol (if the base fuel is not chemically adjusted at the refining stage) will lead to increased evaporative emissions.

I don’t care

If I have missed something, please tell me what it is and I will test for it. I have all access to all of the gear necessary to check for whatever problem it is you think I should.

cheers