Dangerous Driving Nonsense

[(OO_The4door_OO)]

I just wanted to voice my opinion over a very sensitive matter.

I had spent about $4000 on advanced driver training before I lost my licence and know what some people on this forum mean when they say don't always point the finger at the driver.

Two of my business mates are retired infrustructure engineers ( road designers ) and what they have to say will amaze you. Any one notice speed limits decreasing over the last few decades? Any one ever ask themselves why? It's not like the roads get less-safe.... No moron! Drivers standards are decreasing! (based on a mean average ) In other words, F1 drivers go 130km/h around a corner because they have the skills and are simply VERY GOOD DRIVERS. Same goes on the public road - you get drivers who simply are better drivers by nature and then you get drivers who, well you know, let's just call them not very good drivers. The problem is, and as auto insurance companies have stated, there are more of them (in %) than there where 10-20 years ago.

Now these infrustructure engineers are to set the speed limits for the less able driver, which is kinda thier best option to keep things fool proof. So when they design and lay down a new road they must factor in these "not so good drviers" and set a speed limit which is safe to EVERYONE, and they know too well that the road is capible of much faster traffic.

To further prove my point, look at the driver structure in Germany. Notice they HAVE NO SPEED LIMITS on thier main roads yet the accident rate is ridiculously low. But then I bet you haven't seen the method of getting your licence there. They train and test the raisins out of you and you can know all the road rules they impose, but the rule stands of you are not a good driver you will not get your licence.

So who are to point and say you are a terrible and unsafe driver? When we can't even prove how we would react in an emergency situation, the "speeding" driver could very well be the better.

Now I'm not saying all speeding drivers are not at fault. Most of them are. I am just annoyed at people pointing at all the ones who got caught.

The guys who get them selves wrapped around a pole are obviously the idiots and really should have thier licences revoked - but you get drivers who are perfectly able to travel 30-50km/h over the speed limit in a car and on a road that has been engneered to do so (as proved in Germany). The problem is exposing who is and who isn't.

FYI I was doing 116km/h in a 60km/h zone on a dead straight 4 lane road at 12am. and lost my licence for 19 months (NSW)

That is my 4.9345 cents

Justin

[VB-]

FYI I was doing 116km/h in a 60km/h zone on a dead straight 4 lane road at 12am. and lost my licence for 19 months (NSW)

where was this exactly? was it on a feeway where theirs raodworks that are basically non existant?

[justin911]

so basicaly you lost your licence and now your having a cry ???

wow your my hero... your such a good driver you can do 50km over the speed limit and take into account a dog or something might run infront of your car etc etc... If i PM you my address can i get your autograph pls ????

oh and btw im sure the ppl who wrap themselves round a pole dont plan to.. but im sure they start off with the same attitude you have

[(OO_The4door_OO)]

where was this exactly? was it on a feeway where theirs raodworks that are basically non existant?

Windsor road Sydney

[VB-]

so is that always a 60 zone or wot? why doin 116? race? just given ur car a thrash?

[Thunderbolt]

Nice writeup, but damn 116 km/h is fast in a 60 zone. Those sorts of speeds should be reserved for highways and good rural roads alone.

[dangerous_daveo]

He is right about the road design thing. Its not just the driver skills though, its also the general quality of cars in Australia. They arent really designed to go much above 100kmh, and thats assuming they are road worthy enough in the first place.

But speed limits are also there for the unexpected. Highways are 100kmh as the chance of someone running across them, or a car coming out of a side street etc is very low.

[govich]

I personally think a lot of this stuff is driver attitude. I'm not aiming this at you (unless this is the attitude you have), but in my opinion, if the people who speed excessively can't respect a law of the country even while knowing why it's in place, i'm not sure they should have their licence. It's laid out pretty clearly that if you go over the legal speed limit, you're doing something illegal, and there is obviously a reason why it's illegal. Some people may think this is unfair, but you have all sorts of people thinking all sorts of laws are unfair, not everyone can be happy, it's a fact. Accept it and if you do double the speed limit, don't be surprised when you lose your licence.

Comparing with Germany is hard, since they obviously planned the whole situation out far more carefully than our own past governments. Proposing driver training is fine and i guess a logical solution, but if you impose driver training on everybody, you will have the people who can't afford it, and all of those who fail and lose their licence. For a government imposing this, they're going to have a whole bunch of people whinging that they can't afford this, and they then have to either subsidise these people or tell them they can't drive because they can't afford it. The people who fail the test will suddenly realise that they don't have an easy way to get to work and will complain to the government that there isn't enough public transport close to their home etc. And there will be lots of these. Then the people who pass will complain about paying for it but will be happy to drive 10km/h faster, which they did anyway. So the government has half its population pissed off at it. How long do you reckon it'll be before they get voted out and a party offering speed limits again gets voted in?

Speed limits are the easiest way to account for everybody.

/essay

[eMsta]

FYI I was doing 116km/h in a 60km/h zone on a dead straight 4 lane road at 12am. and lost my licence for 19 months (NSW)

Hmmm....Whats the point of going that fast in a 60km zone buddy? What if some drunk stepped out in front of you? What if you hit that person? If you really need to get the thrill of speed - take your car to the track. You might have had complete control of your car - but remember pedestrians sometimes can be very stupid or just plain clueless. Someone steps out, and you hit them, its jail for you.

We all have sped at some stage of our lives. But think about the consequences before you decide to give your car a flogging on public roads.

Just my thoughts on the matter..... Take care out there bud.

[justin911]

its all got to do with the attitude of the driver...

ie.. ive done a training course and can steer around witches hats / im a good driver nothing will happen to me....

[mad082]

So who are to point and say you are a terrible and unsafe driver? When we can't even prove how we would react in an emergency situation, the "speeding" driver could very well be the better.

how about we do a test. you do 116kmh, i'll do 60kmh and brake 1 second after you do and we'll see who pulls up quicker.

mate, you are a stooge. do you think that cause you have done driver training that you can do nearly double the speed limit and be safe? grow a brain. if a kid runs out in front of you, you are going to slow down faster from 60 than 100.

speed limits are mostly set on location. if it is classed as rural area it will mostly be either 80kmh or 100kmh. if it is residential it will be 40-60kmh. the reason is that there is more chance of pedestrians, traffic crossing the road, etc. engineers only put advisory speed limits on sharp corners.

and not all german roads have no speed limit. most of the ones that don't aren't freeways. they are toll roads, and it doesn't apply for all lanes. if it is a 6 lane highway, only 1 or 2 will be 'open limit'.

[mad082]

and anyone who was a safe driver would follow the speed limit. being a good driver means you can handle a normal situation. look at race car drivers, they are good drivers, but they still crash. why? cause they are at the limit. so if you are speeding then you are closer to the limit, which means you have more chance of crashing.

sell your car and buy a bike and shut the hell up.

[Kozeyekan]

Not the brightest action, but he does have a point.

The quality of drivers in Australia is somewhere between "Bulletproof Space monkey" and "Senile old mountain goat".

I also think that making the P's test harder is a good solution, but also ONGOING testing is a better one.

My grandmother has not had to take a driving test since the 60's, yet since then, we've seen a bunch of new rules, two lane roundabouts, flashing yellow pedestrian crossings, Freeways, tollways, etc, etc.

Now, how often do you suppose the average person drops into the local road authority to get a copy of the latest rules, just to 'freshen up'?

yearly? every 5 years, every 10 years? How about not at all?

I think that re-testing people every 5-10 years would be a good solution, and removing the implication that EVERYONE deserves a license. Some people just aren't capable enough on the road to be issued one, at least not until they spend more time in driver training.

Also, making driver education part of the school curriculum would make them better, more experianced drivers, learning advanced trigonometry in yr 12 might possibly save your life, but knowing how to come to the quickest stop in a wet and broken road almost certainly will.

Oh, and while I'm as guilty as the next person in my number of tickets (my first one within 24 hours of getting my P's) none of them have been for more than 10k's over. Does that make me safe? Hell no. It was my stupid fault. I knew that it was wrong and did it anyway. That itself is more important than the result. If I though 10 k's over was OK, why not 11. If 11 is ok, why not 12. Why not 13. 15. 20. 30? What is the exact line a person draws as OK?

It should be the speed limit. That is why it was there. It's frustrating, it's often unnecessary, but it's there. Choosing to break it is the same as choosing to break any law.

If they could train drivers better, and keep them that way, maybe we'd see limits raised, and less people around trees.

-End sermon-

[Spook's_Skyline]

for such an awesome driver you arent very smart

if u want to be an awesome driver, just do it on a rack track and show us all there

u dont deserve to have your licence for doing 116 in a 60 zone

i salute the poilce for this one

[Sydneykid]

There's a problem, what does "speeding" actually mean?

Is it simply driving over the speed limit?

No, I don't think so

Because sometimes the speed limit is too high for the conditions (eg; fog)

Many accidents are put down to "speeding" even though the vehicle was no being driven in excess of the speed limit.

So the "authorities" even admit that "speeding" is not simply driving over the speed limit.

So, does the converse apply?"

Exceeding the speed limit is not "speeding"

The "authoriites" have admitted that some roads have lower than necessary speed limits.

Think of the statistics, more than 50% of all accidents happen at less than 20kph (ie; the average is, if I remember rightly, 18 kph). So doing more than 20 kph could be considered safer than driving at less than 20 kph. (ie; less accidents happen at more than 20 kph).

Lastly, the safest road in the world for distance travelled over time is the Autobarn which has no maximum speed limit. But it does have minimum speed limits.

Excessive speed for the conditions is the real problem, not doing more than the speed limit.

Something to think about

cheers

[saff_cossie]

Obtaining a licence here is way too easy. Learners are advised to do 120 hours before they go for their P's yet plenty of learners are out there with more confidence than a middle aged driver.

Agree with the setting the speed limit based on the lowest ability from the first post, makes logical sense.

The testing here needs to be tougher. I did my test in the UK where first time pass rates are around 40%. Accidents there are also not as common as here from me spending my first 23 years there. Sure in the fog in the middle of winter, I can recall some horendous 40-50 car pile ups and there are certainly plenty of bad drivers there.

The infrastructure here is not designed for higher cruising speeds, check out the right turn lanes on an 80kph road. Have a look at Germany and the UK where motorways/autobahns are fenced in with high or deep embankments with plenty of bridges and tunnels for people and wildlife to get across the roads.

My 2c

[Al]

FYI I was doing 116km/h in a 60km/h zone on a dead straight 4 lane road at 12am. and lost my licence for 19 months (NSW)

That is my 4.9345 cents

Justin

What makes you "think" you are a good driver?

Doing 116km/h in a residential area, where numerous uncertainties can occur, resulting in harm and possible death to innocent victims.

Scenario: You travelling at 116km, stray dog runs out, into your path, you brake, swerve, loose control, smash through a fence, and end up stationary in a couple’s bedroom with one person dead. All because you "think" you are some shit hot driver that has had X amount of lessons. From all those lessons you still didn't learn the most important rule, "Defensive Driving": Never trust other drivers, pedestrians, animals, etc, to do the right thing. Always expect the unexpected and drive according to the conditions and your surroundings.

Lost of lic. for 19months, great one less idiot on the road!

PS: In Germany only the Autobahn is "unlimited", that's only one huge stretch of tarmac that is super smooth. They also have low speed restrictions in residential areas.

The quality of Australian roads is shit, and the standard of registered cars leaves much to be desired.

I don't claim to be some super safe, 100% law abiding driver, that never speeds, etc, but I wont have a cry and whinge if I get caught breaking the law.

[monkeykplunk]

As stated previously, Engineers only put advisory speeds on corners, what they do generally has very little to do with the setting of a speed limit.

Speed limits are set on locations, ie Residential, Rural, Freeway, Local Traffic Zones, etc....

The only bearing Engineers reccomendations have on these is that if you look at a rural road that you could do 90km/h onbut it has several corners they are limited to 70km/h or below, then that section would be a slower limit like 70-80km/h.

I got a speeding fine last week and i was doing 81-78 in a 60 zone. It's my first fine in the Skyline, and the first one I've had since I was 19.

I take full responsibilty for it as I simply wasn't paying attention to what I was doing. I was paying more attention to the boxes I had in my car that I was moving.

[PTR33]

Speed limits are set for morons who can't drive in their "hasn't had a roadworthy inspection in the 15 years I've had it" $hitboxes to save themselves.

Case in point, I had to make a 15km detour to get to work yesterday morning because some fluxhead had crashed through the armco on a dead straight, dead flat piece of road and the cops had the highway closed while they picked up the bits.

With luck, that is one less d1ckhead on the road.

What p1$$e$ me off is the "safe drivers" who do 10-15kimh under the speed limit EVERYWHERE. Fine, (if you're so incompetant that you must do 90 in a 100 zone you shouldn't be on the road in my opinion) but WTF is with then doing 70 in a 80 etc???

You want to figure out how bad a driver the car in front of you contains? Just watch their brake lights. If they are constantly all over the brakes before every slight bend in the road, but don't actually seem to be slowing down, they have no confidence and are hopeless cases who should be riding a bus.

And anyone who actually thinks that slowing down will help with merging into the traffic flow on a motorway on-ramp should just be pulled out of the car and have someone "pop a cap" in their head.

Incompetant fools are the biggest killer on the road, not speed.

Also right up there is the crap quality of local cars coupled with the lack of a regular roadworthy inspection program. How many times do you see pictures of a car wrapped around a tree in the news along with the headline 6 Teens Die in Crash and it's a bl00dy old Commodore!! (If they'd been in an import they would have probably got round the corner).

Sure this post is inflamatory but it's all true.

I know it, you know it, all we need is the d1ckheads running the place to admit it.

Ban Low-Performance Drivers, NOT High-Performance Cars

[(OO_The4door_OO)]

Ban Low-Performance Drivers, NOT High-Performance Cars

Now that is a quote worth taking further.....