Nitrous Oxide System

[SirRacer]

I have access to a horribly cheap nitrous bottle,foggers, fuel and nitrous solinoid but am interested in what other parts id need to get the thing running and basically the best way to do things. The kit is off a v8 of some sorts and i really dont know alot about nitrous at all so arent sure what ill need.

The engine ill be using is an rb30e i have lying around so im not to worried about blowing it up however would like to buy the proper parts so when my good rb30det is running i can still use the nos(in smaller amounts) as a coolant.

I realise i will need the nitrous line from the bottle, something that taps into the fuel system for the wet kit and fittings for the injection into the intake but what i have i missed?

Im hoping to run around 150hp through the engine basically for burnouts and maybe later on use it to cool another better engine(yes cheating etc etc). I so far want to do a direct port (into the intake runners) as these engines are known for a crap intake manifold.

Any advice would be great. Eg where i would tee the fuel source into and how do i tee off the solinoids and what fittings will i need etc. Pics of parts would be even better.

Ive included a list of parts i have so if people wouldnt mind identifying some that ive highlighted that would be great. (The holley pump isnt mind btw)

Cheers

[R31Nismoid]

Your game with 150hp with no management

But im sure fatz will do 200 if you say your doin 150

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...howtopic=122329

[B-Man]

Have a look here - for all your nitrous questions and answers:

http://www.nitrousdirect.com/nitrous-instructions.html

[B-Man]

Your game with 150hp with no management

But im sure fatz will do 200 if you say your doin 150

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...howtopic=122329

Why was that thread locked ???:confused:

[GTR1993]

You have to tee off somewhere before the fuel reg obviostly, or run a 2nd reg after the first at a lower pressure, or a seperate fuel system. On my system i run a 2nd pump just for the gas. Direct port is nice, i run the same on my car. Make sure you take a whack of timing out, i have no experience witht he rb30e in regards to how much timing it uses but i would take at least 5 degrees out minimum, with 150 shot cylinder pressures will be up quite a bit.

[SirRacer]

Your game with 150hp with no management

But im sure fatz will do 200 if you say your doin 150

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...howtopic=122329

you obviously know even less about nitrous than i do

thats the point of the wet system, fuel is injected with the nitrous therefore it doesnt lean out and no need for an engine management system (back of the timing a few degrees). im sure you know the theory behind it just have heard this and that on the grapevine

Edited June 26, 2006 by SirRacer

[SirRacer]

You have to tee off somewhere before the fuel reg obviostly, or run a 2nd reg after the first at a lower pressure, or a seperate fuel system. On my system i run a 2nd pump just for the gas. Direct port is nice, i run the same on my car. Make sure you take a whack of timing out, i have no experience witht he rb30e in regards to how much timing it uses but i would take at least 5 degrees out minimum, with 150 shot cylinder pressures will be up quite a bit.

thanks for the information sounds good. how does the second pump plumb in and what kind of pump are you using. could i use say an rb20det standard pump?

do you also have any pictures of how the foggers go into the nitrous and fuel solinoids then into the intake? im quite interested in how you have done this.

not worried about timing as yet as it wont hit nitrous until its on the dyno anyway

how would i also wire in switches for when the nitrous kicks in etc and what ones will i need??

[GTR1993]

I actualy run a second 044 and regulator just for the nitrous, i would assume a rb20 pump would eaily do it as a rb20 makes more then 150 hp stock anyway.

as for when it kicks in generally people will say you only want to hit it at around 4000, but you also want to stop it before limiter as there can be some big bangs if you dont. Ideally you want to have it computer controlled to be switched between 4000 and a few 100 rpm below limiter, then you can also have a switch on your tb to make sure that is open fully, then say a switch on your steering wheel to actually activate it.

[rev210]

A quick tip while I think of it..

When sizing things up jets wise you don't just slap in the ones off the chart that relate to 150hp and expect that outcome. That chart you will notice has a fuel pressure rating. If you are going to have a variation to that pressure you need to measure the actual fuel flow of the fuel jets (good idea anyway) and then size thematch to a nitrous jet.If you have a static pressure regualtor and gauge you can use these to isolate the fuel supply pressure levels in the nitrous system, you definately need to measure them. If you take the time to do this you end up with a better result every time.

A cooler set of plugs isn't a bad idea for nitrous use, as mentioned a few degrees of timing taken out. Platinums and others with small grounding straps aren't a good choice plug wise either.

It's a pretty crappy photo you have but, I can see a a static fuel pressure reg , it looks like a low pressure one though (a holley?)

The other bits I'm not sure what you have circled as I can't make out the detail.

[SirRacer]

cheers for some great responces. yes the reg is a holley one(trying to work out what that was) and ill post up a proper photo when i get home. i was assuming sau would have some sort of max file size so i shrunk everything

how would i mount the extra fuel pump, just say sucking like normal (will have a bosch 044 mounted internally in the tank) on a piece of plate steel on the floor of the boot.

i have read about the fuel pressures so ill make sure i get both a fuel pressure and nos pressure gauge to keep control of that however if im running direct port will i be able to run as low as 25hp through each fogger?

in respect to controlling it what is the problem with wiring up a switch so nitrous comes on when the throttle is fully down? what affect does hitting rev limiter have on the nitrous(may have to invest in a shift light)

Edited June 26, 2006 by SirRacer

[BezerkR32]

The picture you have posted is a direct port kit which means a nozzle in every cylinder. that kit is probably good for 300hp. all you need for 150 is 1 nozzle, 1 fuel and 1 Nos solenoid, a malpassi reg (rising rate if it is a turbo car) with guage, Nos filter, nos pressure guage, bottle warmer. you can tee the supply in on you standard fuel supply if you have a large intank pump, otherwise run an independant fuel system. Put nozzle infront of throttle body. You have too run the correct size pills. always start at 900psi bottle pressure and start fuel pressure at 38psi. fine tuning is done with these pressures, have to get it close first by interchanging pills. the pills you have in that kit will most likely be too small as there are so many nozzles.

Should realy have someone help you with the tune side as timing retard is essential aswell.

Have posted some pics of single fogger nozel setups and one of a direct port setup. hope they are of some help. Pretty sure the smallest pills you can get are 30hp, they are differnt depending on wether you are running a efi pump or a low pressure pump. if the car is turbod you will have to run efi pump with pills to suit.

cheers for some great responces. yes the reg is a holley one(trying to work out what that was) and ill post up a proper photo when i get home. i was assuming sau would have some sort of max file size so i shrunk everything

how would i mount the extra fuel pump, just say sucking like normal (will have a bosch 044 mounted internally in the tank) on a piece of plate steel on the floor of the boot.

i have read about the fuel pressures so ill make sure i get both a fuel pressure and nos pressure gauge to keep control of that however if im running direct port will i be able to run as low as 25hp through each fogger?

in respect to controlling it what is the problem with wiring up a switch so nitrous comes on when the throttle is fully down? what affect does hitting rev limiter have on the nitrous(may have to invest in a shift light)

Edited June 26, 2006 by BezerkR32

[rev210]

The nitrous activation is a 'full throttle' affair in standard setups. You put a microswitch/momentary switch on the Throttle arm so it is only on at full throttle.

The micro switch and soloinds need to be wired via relays othwise the high current draw of the solenoids will cook things.

Obviously you need an arming swtich to engage the 'nitrous active' mode.

The 044 flows enough to cope with say 600hp worth of fuel total. You have therefore 600hp - 150hp (worth of extra nitrous fuel requirement) = 450hp worth of fuel flow remaining. If you configure the motor to have under 450hp (at the engine) then the 044 will satisfy the total fuel load without needing another pump. With an NA Rb30 you are sound as a pound for fuel supply.

This leads me to the next question. How big can you go with the nitrous shot? I think if the standard RB30E internals can cope with say 400hp (some one may know) and without the gas the engine makes 200hp? then thats a 200hp shot you could end up running.(With a 10lb gas tank that would last about 50 seconds total).

The advantage with the nitrous power up wil be lower rpm requirements for the engine to make the power total as well. Typically 500rpm.

SirRacer,

Thats not a low pressure carby style kit is it? That holley reg looks like it is.

[rev210]

oh yes the other reason for testing flow rates on the fuel side of things is because NOS standard brass flare jets are often not accurate in flow rating. Thats why they market the NOS 'Saphire' range, because they are actually flow tested.

[SirRacer]

yeah this kit originally came off a dirty v8 and i didnt think there was much of a difference between the fittings etc. this a problem???

the engine and nos is going in the same car thats going to be setup with my good rb30det which should put out around 350rwkws. is this allowing the pump enough slack to provide both?

where is the best place to tap into also in respect to the fuelling?

another question i had is lots of people seem to suggest just tapping one fogger into the throttle body/intercooler piping. i would have thought direct port nitrous would have been the better option due to the fact these intakes seem to have a history for uneven air flow

thanks

Edited June 26, 2006 by SirRacer

[rev210]

350rwkw is another pump for the nitrous to be safe. The nitrous will give a very large increase in torque so you might be looking at a new gearbox if your going to bung in 150+hp on top of 350rwkw.

Direct port is a better way to go for bigger shots. The single fogger is fine for up to 200hp however and dead simple to plumb in.

If you are using an RB25 plenum then I don't think there is any issue with a single fogger. I used one on mine and then 2rimso took mine off me (as ratty as it was) and has just won the Andra S/RWD for Season '05/'06 with the thing (or should I say dispite it).

[SirRacer]

cheers and thanks for the posts. "despite it" doesnt give me a huge amount of confidence hah but im sure things will be fine

looking at the parts ive got i presume i cant use the reg and will just need to run a seperate line from another pump to feed the nitrous. on this pump ill also need a pressure reg to make sure the nitrous/fuel mixtures are bang on. how will i do the fuel return?

so i basically just need to tap a hole into the intake/intercooler piping (whichever im using) and then run things from there. ill only also need to use 1 set of solinoids.

whats the deal with when nos should start finish etc. some say it shouldnt start until 3k and finish before redline and somehow hitting revline with nos activated is bad for the engine?

thanks for the pics also as they are great help

Edited June 26, 2006 by SirRacer

[rev210]

your regular fuel return line can be plumbed into. You might just look at a bigger fuel pump again to replace the 044.

Activating nitrous at lower revs means massive torque increases. This is ok if the levels of torque are not beyond the rods.The rods will have a limit, just keep under that. The fact is that the nitrous is only engaged when you are flat to the floor. redline wise you tend to lower the shift point about 500rpm or so. This also helps with 'run on' that you get when you come off the gas, tiny bit of fuel and gas still flow into the motor when the solenoid is off.

[SirRacer]

your regular fuel return line can be plumbed into. You might just look at a bigger fuel pump again to replace the 044.

Activating nitrous at lower revs means massive torque increases. This is ok if the levels of torque are not beyond the rods.The rods will have a limit, just keep under that. The fact is that the nitrous is only engaged when you are flat to the floor. redline wise you tend to lower the shift point about 500rpm or so. This also helps with 'run on' that you get when you come off the gas, tiny bit of fuel and gas still flow into the motor when the solenoid is off.

hey thanks for all the help, its been great

so ill need to either run a bigger pump than an 044 (is there bigger?) or a seperate pump that could tap into the main pumps return???

do you mind posting a list of bits i need including switches so i know what to buy.

when mounting the second pump if i go down that route where should i mount it?

will the foggers be the same on this setup thats been run on a v8? (i realise ill need new jets). im glad you have been there done that also with a single fogger as that will be easier installation wise.

when i go for my warrant can i presume taking the nos lines out and extra fuel line will be find and just screwing something into the fogger hole??