Opinion On Dyno Numbers...

[SleepingTalon]

I wanted to get some opinons on this setup that I just got finished tuning. I'm trying to see if I'm on par with people who have similair setups, so let me know if I'm off my mark so far. Here it goes...

RB25DET

465rwhp/347rwkw at 21psi on pump gas (93 octane in the US)

Stock head, stock cams, stock intake manifold.

Wiseco Pistons, Eagle rods, custom headgasket

550cc injectors, Nismo AFPR, Walbro 255.

GT35R (.70 compressor and .63 A/R) w/Tial 38mm WG

Greddy FMIC

Custom side dump exhaust and wastegate dump

AEM EMS

The car can make MUCH more power easily. The coilpacks weren't liking the higher boost, so it's time for Splitfire's I guess. Is there anything else I need to lookout for, upgrade wise, at this power level? The goal is 500whp on pump gas, so if anything else NEEDS to be upgraded to get there, the info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks ahead of time!

Edited June 30, 2006 by SleepingTalon

[R31Nismoid]

unless your coils are stuffed, the splitfires wont give you any gain, or fix the misfire

you need better spark altogether, not replacement coils

[SleepingTalon]

unless your coils are stuffed, the splitfires wont give you any gain, or fix the misfire

you need better spark altogether, not replacement coils

I'm not looking for gains with the split fires, just to fix the misfire at 23+psi. However, if the split fires are a waste of time, then I'll avoid that all together. The gap is tight on the plugs, so I know it's not that. I've got an HKS Twin Power I can use, as well as hardwire the coilpacks, and that may remedy the problem. Other than that, am I where I should be power wise at that boost level, given the setup? Thanks again.

Edited June 30, 2006 by SleepingTalon

[Busky2k]

Time for an MSD DIS4 + 3 coils in waste spark config. That'll fix your sparky issue! Unless theres a 6 channel CDI on the market..

[SleepingTalon]

Time for an MSD DIS4 + 3 coils in waste spark config. That'll fix your sparky issue! Unless theres a 6 channel CDI on the market..

That's not a bad idea actually, but seeing how I have the AEM EMS, I'd probably use the AEM CDI, as it plugs right into the ecu, and it controlled by the AEM software. Of course I could just go all out and use the same CBR coils from the race car! 8-)

Edited June 30, 2006 by SleepingTalon

[R31Nismoid]

I'm not looking for gains with the split fires, just to fix the misfire at 23+psi. However, if the split fires are a waste of time, then I'll avoid that all together. The gap is tight on the plugs, so I know it's not that. I've got an HKS Twin Power I can use, as well as hardwire the coilpacks, and that may remedy the problem.

That will work VERY nicely indeed

[BezerkR32]

Surprised you are making that power with standard valve springs, if you havent needed to upgrade them so far i think you will find that you will soon. had similar setups valve floating and compressor surging on similar boost at 7200rpm. excellent figures though mate, would like to here what numbers it runs on the track.

I'm not looking for gains with the split fires, just to fix the misfire at 23+psi. However, if the split fires are a waste of time, then I'll avoid that all together. The gap is tight on the plugs, so I know it's not that. I've got an HKS Twin Power I can use, as well as hardwire the coilpacks, and that may remedy the problem. Other than that, am I where I should be power wise at that boost level, given the setup? Thanks again.

[R31Nismoid]

Seems some heads are of better condition.

My head was totally stock aswell and i never had an issue

[SleepingTalon]

Surprised you are making that power with standard valve springs, if you havent needed to upgrade them so far i think you will find that you will soon. had similar setups valve floating and compressor surging on similar boost at 7200rpm. excellent figures though mate, would like to here what numbers it runs on the track.

7200rpm is stock rev limit, if I'm not mistaken, so that's what I've left it at. I was thinking of bumping it up to 7500rpm, but now that you told me that "valve float" is a possiblity, I'll think I'll pass on that one! I guess new valve springs are on the horizon then. I did have one question though, what kind of knock voltages are people seeing? I noticed that the sensor on this car doesn't really give constant noise, but it spikes instead. I've got the knock threshold pretty low, and it's SUPER safe tuned, so I was just wondering what voltages others are tuning to, when tuning around the knock sensor.

[Sydneykid]

347 rwkw + 75 kw losses = 565 bhp

Out of 550 cc injectors, that’s a good effort, what pressure are you running with the AFPR?

GT35 with .63 turbine, that’s a small one, what’s the rating on that? Isn’t it 550 bhp or so?

Standard valve springs, maybe it’s not the coils causing the misfire it might be valve float.

Standard Cams, what rpm does it make the 347 rwkw.

21 psi, what plug gap are you running?

Be careful with the Walbro pump, at 198 litres per hour and 21 psi + fuel pressure it’s going to run out of flow/pressure shortly.

Knock sensor voltage indicates how loud the knock is, not how frequent it is.

cheers

Edited June 30, 2006 by Sydneykid

[SleepingTalon]

347 rwkw + 75 kw losses = 565 bhp

Out of 550 cc injectors, that’s a good effort, what pressure are you running with the AFPR?

GT35 with .63 turbine, that’s a small one, what’s the rating on that? Isn’t it 550 bhp or so?

Standard valve springs, maybe it’s not the coils causing the misfire it might be valve float.

Standard Cams, what rpm does it make the 347 rwkw.

21 psi, what plug gap are you running?

Be careful with the Walbro pump, at 198 litre per hour and 21 psi + fuel pressure it’s going to run out of flow/pressure shortly.

Knock sensor voltage indicates how loud the knock is, not how frequent it is.

cheers

Actually, 550's should be enough to make roughly 500rwhp. The fuel pressure is 38psi, so that the low portion of the fuel map is more managable. If I start to see the injectors run out, I'll bump the fuel pressure up some. The plug gap is .026, so it's very tight. As far as the turbo is concerned, I've made much more on the same turbo (give or take 570+awhp, on Evo's), so I've got a bit further to go. I've also made over 600whp with one Walbro, as it's a 255lph, not the 190. Also, AEM has internal logging, and the knock sensor on this car is not like many other cars I tune, as it shows "spikes" for engine noise, and exactly when it happened, ie what rpm, map pressure, etc. AEM is very complete. I just wanna know what voltages others are tuning around, so I know if I'm "too" safe tuned, or if I have room to play. On a side note, it's definitely the spark blowing out, not valve float. I know that for sure, but I'm glad I know not to run anymore rpm until I get a set of valve springs, that's for damn sure! I don't have the dyno plot with me, but the powerband was VERY similair to the HKS 2540 that was on it previously, except it makes about 75+whp more with the GT35R, and the power/tq doesn't fall. It makes 19psi by 4000rpm, maybe sooner. I'll doublecheck that when I get to the shop tomorrow. Thanks for all the input guys, I really do appreciate it.

[rob82]

Its hard to compare american dyno figures against ours. US numbers are usually inflated so their 500rwhp is our 450rwhp. 38 psi and 555cc injectors in my books is only really capable of 470-490rwhp and with your shit fuel need about 10.5:1 to starve off detonation you must be very close if not on 100% DC.

We tune the EVO9's in the states at about 11.0:1 AFR and the STI's need about 10.2:1 - 10.5:1 to be able to learn timing in.

[SleepingTalon]

Its hard to compare american dyno figures against ours. US numbers are usually inflated so their 500rwhp is our 450rwhp. 38 psi and 555cc injectors in my books is only really capable of 470-490rwhp and with your shit fuel need about 10.5:1 to starve off detonation you must be very close if not on 100% DC.

We tune the EVO9's in the states at about 11.0:1 AFR and the STI's need about 10.2:1 - 10.5:1 to be able to learn timing in.

Well, I've used the Dynodynamics dyno here as well, and the figures on every car I've used there are identical to the Dynojet. Dynodynamics has a load control, so that will skew figures when you adjust it. 10.5 is a full point below where I'm at right now, and would be pig rich. The injectors are at 80% duty in my internal logs. I've actually made 580whp on a 4cyl with 650cc, so I'm fairly certain of where I'm at right now, but I know I'm gonna need some bigger injectors to get the numbers I'm looking for. The reason the fuel pressure is low is for low throttle tuning, and daily driving. Lower fuel pressure takes away from the max duty of the injector, while effectively making the driveability better, while higher fuel pressure does the opposite. I never run higher fuel pressure unless the injectors are starved during WOT. I'm not seeing much knock at all with the way it's tuned right now. The motor is in a 240sx, so it's being used as a drift car part time, as well as at the drag strip, so that's two different tunes for 2 different types activities. The numbers above were "hot shot" numbers, as it's at 19psi on the street right now, which is 425whp or so. Also, I target 11.5 on 4G63's, and 10.5 on Subaru's because EJ's are detonation happy, and 4G's just have sensitive knock sensors, that's all. It's been that way since the 95+DSM, all the way to the present day Evo's. Makes it hard on us tuners, lol!

Edited June 30, 2006 by SleepingTalon

[MR331307]

I wanted to get some opinons on this setup that I just got finished tuning. I'm trying to see if I'm on par with people who have similair setups, so let me know if I'm off my mark so far. Here it goes...

RB25DET

465rwhp/347rwkw at 21psi on pump gas (93 octane in the US)

Stock head, stock cams, stock intake manifold.

Wiseco Pistons, Eagle rods, custom headgasket

550cc injectors, Nismo AFPR, Walbro 255.

GT35R (.70 compressor and .63 A/R) w/Tial 38mm WG

Greddy FMIC

Custom side dump exhaust and wastegate dump

AEM EMS

The car can make MUCH more power easily. The coilpacks weren't liking the higher boost, so it's time for Splitfire's I guess. Is there anything else I need to lookout for, upgrade wise, at this power level? The goal is 500whp on pump gas, so if anything else NEEDS to be upgraded to get there, the info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks ahead of time!

Very good

Time FOR NITROUS

anyways read Max HP out of standard RB25

might give you an idea

[ISL33P]

very impressive SleepingTalon. would like to see logs and dyno readout.

...and with your shit fuel

i might be wrong but aren't the ratings of fuel differnet in US compared to Oz ?

[rob82]

very impressive SleepingTalon. would like to see logs and dyno readout.

i might be wrong but aren't the ratings of fuel differnet in US compared to Oz ?

Thats correct being americans they have a different calculations or processess via which they calculate their RON and MON fuel ratings. The biggest thing is their Ethanol content from memory 10% blends is common, which is probably another reason that I've found that you need to tune richer in the states to starve off detonation. (And no I dont want to get into the burning characteristics of ethanol blended fuels)

The easiest way to tell is when tuning the Subi's as there knock control methodology is consistent throughout the world however the fuel's are different. In saying that there is a level of AFR that they require in order to be happy and learn timing. I've found that in Australia that minimum level is between 11.0:1 - 11.5:1 whereas in the states it is about 10.5:1 as confirmed by Sleeping Talon. Tuning leaner than this level usually results in less learnt timing hence less power.