2way Or 1.5way Mechanical Lsd? Feedback Wanted.

[Cake]

It's for my R33 GTS25t making 255+rwkw.

The stock LSD is giving me the shits now... quite often single spinning through corners. Even when they do both spin, the inside wheel will still often spin significantly faster, sling shotting the car to one side.

For those of you with a 2way LSD in particular, how do you find it being driven on the street? My car is primarily street driven but also sees the drag strip and skidpan every now and then. Wouldn't mind taking it to the track for some drift practice too.

My main concern is its locking up on de-acceleration, especially in the wet as i've heard a few bad stories about this ending up in tears. I can imagine it being a handful in the wet, but i'm sure with extra caution it can be done?

Would prefer a 2way if it can be lived with, but if it's too brutal for daily duties i'll settle for the 1.5

It will be a Kaaz model either way.

Any experiences or feedback is appreciated

Edited July 10, 2006 by b005t

[D-limo]

Unless you're looking at useing the car for regular drift duties.. There really isn't much reason to use a 2-Way IMO.

[Remix-]

Yo dude, as you know I've got a Nismo 2 Way in the 32. The diff being locked constantly is absolutely brutal mang! I have nearly binned it (re: smashed side skirt) due to decel lockup!!

Basically if you go into a corner hard on the noise you've got to stay on it, lift your foot off the throttle and you'll likely be swapping ends.

I guess it comes down to your prefered driving style though. If drift and drag is your priority then by all means, but if to live the daily life I'd go the 1.5 as it's a bit more of a compromise between sport and safety.

Edited July 10, 2006 by Remix-

[Kinks]

Basically if you go into a corner hard on the noise you've got to stay on it, lift your foot off the throttle and you'll likely be swapping ends.

I found with the locker in my old car that it was actually very stable as soon as you lifted - settled right down. However, being off-throttle left you with a bunch of understeer so if you over cooked it into a corner you put yourself in a substantial pickle.

That depends on your tyres though, if you have little rear grip then yes I can see it swapping ends. It certainly only took a small lift to get my car sideways when it was running 14" pintara rims on a drift day.. LOL.

[Bl4cK32]

simple solution is to push the clutch in when braking, stops the diff from locking up.

[Sydneykid]

simple solution is to push the clutch in when braking, stops the diff from locking up.

Sure, but the wheels are still trying to rotate at the same rate. So as soon as you turn the steering wheel there is no differential action and the car will simultaneously understeer and loose inside rear wheel traction.

Unless you are drifting A LOT, go the 1.5 way

cheers

[AzzurrA]

can you buy 1-way LSD's? (i.e. no locking on decel)?

reason i ask, is i am looking to use my car for track days, and my stock diff is pretty rooted (single wheels constantly)

reason i asked about the single way, is having the diff locking slightly on decel (i.e. 1.5 way diff) would push you wider in a corner, than say a diff that just locks under acceleration.... would it not?

does this sound right to anyone else, or would a 1.5 way be better for the track?

if so, please explain why

[Sydneykid]

can you buy 1-way LSD's? (i.e. no locking on decel)?

reason i ask, is i am looking to use my car for track days, and my stock diff is pretty rooted (single wheels constantly)

reason i asked about the single way, is having the diff locking slightly on decel (i.e. 1.5 way diff) would push you wider in a corner, than say a diff that just locks under acceleration.... would it not?

does this sound right to anyone else, or would a 1.5 way be better for the track?

if so, please explain why

Nope, for circuit work a 1.5 way is better in 99% of the cases.

On overrun (no power) the diff unlocks and facilitates turning when the corner is tight enough. ie; when there is sufficient radius difference between the inside and outside wheels.

In a straight line, under brakes, it still has some locking action to help prevent rear inside wheel lock up.

Don't think of the .5 as "half way locked", it means it unlocks with half the loading (actually less than that).

cheers

Edited July 11, 2006 by Sydneykid

[someonestolecc]

1.5way for street duties and occasional track expedition. 2way more-so for drift.

I had a 2 way and loved it, it didn't lock up too hard and I always rev match out of habit so never lock up unless you want to. If you lock up decel on the street you can't drive or are being reckless or lazy.

On the circuit as SK said 1.5way will be quicker due to the way it pushes your car through corners.

Depending on the setup of the diff (i.e. locking threshold) it might plow you through lower speed corners too so look out for that on the street/skidpan

[MerlinTheHapyPig]

1.5-ways are plenty good enough for drift. This is what i'd recommend, because they are so much more versatile. 2-ways can be a real pain if you like to go on the odd twisty cruise, or intend to use the car for a bit of circuit work.

I've found through my own experience and friends experiences that a new-ish 2-way, is almost exactly the same as a welded diff with the exception that they will un-lock when you clutch-in which is handy for driving it on the street going around corners at low speeds.

One might say they are dangerous, but only for noob's who haven't driven with the diff in enough to get the hang of it. They are less forgiving than stock lsd's, but more predictable.

I like my welded diff because it's about as predictable as you can get, and not really much difference between that and a tight 2-way (as long as the weld's hold up)

one might argue that 1.5-way's are more dangerous because it's harder to determine if they will lock under deceleration under different circumstances.

Edited July 12, 2006 by MerlinTheHapyPig

[MANWHOR3]

don't gtrs have 2 ways stock?

Maybe if you get a 2 way that is quite loose liek the stock gtr one, will that be good?

[Kinks]

I like my welded diff because it's about as predictable as you can get, and not really much difference between that and a tight 2-way (as long as the weld's hold up)

one might argue that 1.5-way's are more dangerous because it's harder to determine if they will lock under deceleration under different circumstances.

Yep, R31 had a minispool in it and it was VERY predictable. Was so easy to get the thing sideways and bring it back without shitting yourself.

The main thing to be aware of is in the wet, you will have terrible grip because the rears are trying to break. That said I had Falken 326's on the rear which probably wasn't helping my cause any!

[HIPSI]

Yo dude, as you know I've got a Nismo 2 Way in the 32. The diff being locked constantly is absolutely brutal mang! I have nearly binned it (re: smashed side skirt) due to decel lockup!!

Basically if you go into a corner hard on the noise you've got to stay on it, lift your foot off the throttle and you'll likely be swapping ends.

I guess it comes down to your prefered driving style though. If drift and drag is your priority then by all means, but if to live the daily life I'd go the 1.5 as it's a bit more of a compromise between sport and safety.

I total agree with everything there.... I also have a 2 way in my R32... and DAMN, if you get on the throttle in a corner then you better be ready to counter stear that......

Clunks like a bitch as well if you want to take it easy around a corner...

I personaly found out how brutal it is after taking a corner just a little to quick the other weekend at the SAUWA go kart meet at barbagello....spun into the sand so easily...

That being said, absolutely awesome for controlling a slide though, but daily I would stick with a normal LSD

[bren]

We run a 2 way in our 33 GTST. The original diff was a joke so went straight away. In normal driving the plated diffs fine, no problems bar the usual graunching at slow speeds and tight turns. Go for the Kaaz SAN diff btw, pretty sweet as long as you dont lock the subframe up. Once you lock the subframe in position with alloy collars etc then its like any other mechanical diff, i.e. crap at slow speed/tight turns.

Forgetting the slow speed stuff the diff is fine under normal conditions and under farily quick driving. Once you get up to track speeds then you have to heel and toe if you dont want the wheels locking during down changes. This makes for a lot of fun if you want to play at drifting as you just drop a gear, pop the clutch and the back end is sliding before you enter the corner allowing you to get on the gas and power through and out sideways.

If you dont heel and toe and arent wanting to drift all the tiem then a Kaaz 2 way is going to be a liability whenever you want to drive fast, the back end will be all over the place and a 1.5way would be a much better idea. Our Skyline is a development tool so I dont mind the diff, if it was a daily driver then Id have gone for a 1.5way

[mokompri]

anyone have experience with cusco lsd's ?

http://www.cusco.co.jp/english/e_lsd.html

specifically the RS, which is supposed to be smoother due to its spring operation. it looks good on paper for a street car, also the bonus of these cusco lsd's is that you buy the one lsd and you can configure it anyway you like 1, 1.5 or 2 way !

[bren]

Ive run an RS 1.5 way and an MZ 2 way in an S13 and an S14. The MZ wasnt as bad on downchanges as the Kaaz, it didnt lock as much although the diffs were run in different cars so the weight etc may vary. The RS was fine but grabby at slow speeds. The 1.5 ways are much better for track use, as opposed to drift.

[lwboosted]

do you snap axles with 2 ways like u do when u have a spool or welded diff?

[mokompri]

The RS was fine but grabby at slow speeds.

could you give a bit more detail please, i have an s13 and looking at the RS but no one seems to use them !

when you say 'grabby', you mean it locked up easily at slow speeds ?

[MerlinTheHapyPig]

do you snap axles with 2 ways like u do when u have a spool or welded diff?

skyline driveline is quite strong. I haven't heard of anyone snapping driveshafts with a welded diff on an r32 or s13 silvia

But, same theory applies with either diff, though there is less wind-up at low speeds with the 2-way, so theretically it's probably better. But with a weldy, 99% of the time it'll be the welds on the centre or ring gear/pinion that goes first.

[bren]

When youre turning a corner the outside wheel has to travel a further distance than the inside. Thats why cars have a diff in the first instance, to allow the wheel to rotate at different speeds.

The aftermarket plated diffs distribute the torque more evenly to both wheels so you dont get an inside wheel spinning loads when cornering hard and accelerating.

By grabby I mean that the aftermarket diff will try to spin the inside wheel at the same speed as the outside when cornering tight turns slowly. Like when youre parking

Something has to give so either the inside wheel chunters round at a similar speed to the outside (the diff loads up until the torque overcomes the traction between tyre and road and the wheel will jump round a part turn) or the diff plates slip. The plates dont like to slip and you can feel them trying to grab and then letting go with a little jolt.

Does that make sense?

Edited July 15, 2006 by bren