I Hate This Power Fc !

[T-u-R-b-O]

sorry, but i cant hold it back anymore... man, i thought that i would be a smart ass, and safe some money if i buy a PFC instead of a Haltech or Motec... So i went off and spend ~600 euro (~1000 AUD) on a PFC PRO with handcontoller... all nice so far; direct plug and play and the car started immediatley...

after having done all the necessary hardware on the engine to push for around 500hp ( 367kw or ~320rwkw), i went on the road for some tuning... plugged in my wideband and had the H/C ready... i researched a lot on the net of how to tune this stupid ECU with the H/C, but can tell you that its only good for maybe tuning fuel economy...

for tuning the engine under heavy load, the PFC with only the H/C is simply SHIT! i have worked with haltech and laptop software before and its much easier and takes a loooot less time...

how do u guys do it with this stupid map tracer function? you do a run, log all components and have the map tracer activated... now the shitty thing is that the map tracer cannot diplay the cells that you used within the INJ/IGN maps directly... the question now is, how do you memorize the cells that you used... write all of them by hand or what??? thats really time consuming and seems a rather stupid thing to do... i ended up doing picts of the map trace with my mobile phone and then going back into the IGN/INJ menu to make changes...

basically, i am fed up of having to use this H/C and dont want to ruin my engine because of it, and also dont have 100 hours for writing down cells...

so, does any1 know where to get something like the datalogit but not at a price of ~570 AUD incl. shipment ... are there any alternatives? or do you know someone who sells theirs second hand?

thanks,

Nico

[Jim]

well since youve obviously spent all this money on your car and pfc to make 300+ rwkw why dont you go and pay someone to tune it with a laptop.......simple

[T-u-R-b-O]

simple yes, BUT i am probably the only one who drives an RB25DET in Europe (except england)... there is nobody within a radias of ~5000km who has worked with a PFC or even seen a RB25 in natura...

thats the problem with doing/having something unique...

[Cubes]

It all comes down to experience, local tuners here have absolutely no problems tuning a complete wot run well within 1hr on a rolling road with nothing more than the dyno's wideband display and the pfc's handcontroller in hand.

A complete tune takes 3 maybe 4 hours.

I have known tuners that are used to laptop tuning to struggle with the pfc's hand controller, but once learnt my tuner now prefers to tune via the h/c rather than the datalogit software.

But it is MUCH easier on the dyno.

[RB30-POWER]

I wouldn't ever consider trying to tune any engine with a handcontroller alone.

It so much easier having the entire map infront of you on the laptop, so you can see the relationships of the values in the cells your tuning. Not to mention all the real time data!

Just buy the Datalogit software and tune away, i consider this to be part of the mandatory PowerFC package if you want to tune it yourself.

Thats why when you evaluate the PowerFC price to other ecu's you must add the extra few hundred dollars onto the price for the software to get a real picture.

[2rismo]

Tuners in Australia and elsewhere have relied on the hand controller to tune the pfc for many many years. I havent had a retune in over 3 years - tune is EXACTLY the same in every way as it was more than 3 years ago.

Unigroup tune via hand controller.

Adrian

[R31Nismoid]

Mine was also done via handcontroller in a matter of hours

Ran like a dream. I also has it retuned for full-map adjustments (fuel change, boost change etc) and the adjustments took max of an hour for it to be done

Its just a case of familiarisation with how it works and your off to a flyer

[rob82]

If your tuner has ever played donkey kong then he will take no time at all. I'm up to stage 5 - that involves jumping the river infested with crocodiles.

[paulr33]

ive done both and sometimes the hand controller is easier (and quicker ive often found too). the laptop software can be combersome at times. what is it that you are trying to do? you can use the temp IGN and INJ adjust to shift the maps then run and see what comes on, if you happy apply those shits in the relevant areas on the maps. it just comes down to practice and getting used it.

[R31Nismoid]

If your tuner has ever played donkey kong then he will take no time at all. I'm up to stage 5 - that involves jumping the river infested with crocodiles.

[brother_david]

simple yes, BUT i am probably the only one who drives an RB25DET in Europe (except england)... there is nobody within a radias of ~5000km who has worked with a PFC or even seen a RB25 in natura...

thats the problem with doing/having something unique...

Where in Europe u live then? Sweden here...

[paulr33]

haha

best call ever

well done

made my day

[KICKIN]

sorry, jut a quick correction...

you would be one of two people.

theres a r33 gtst in poland

thx bye

[T-u-R-b-O]

sorry, jut a quick correction...

you would be one of two people.

theres a r33 gtst in poland

thx bye

hmm... do they tune their cars also with PowerFC >>??

obviously there are some GTS skylines around (in germany i think there are 2), but none of them are really tuned... maybe a filter, exhaust or so..

i also have the RB25 swapped into the 200sx with maybe not "unique", but pretty rare...

and sweden is i think over 3.ooo km away from vienna... to drive there with a none optimized engine will be pretty shit...

i am really curious how those people who think that tuning with H/C is faster do it... from my haltech tuning experience, i found seeing the entire map was much more comfortable and i had more overview of things...

the H/C is so unhandy, no overview, map trace sucks, cant make the ventilator run etc...

a shame that the PFC doesnt come with the laptop software to run it like AEM for example...

[Amaru]

www.greenline.jp - They sell the Apexi laptop software and connection cable for 33,584 Yen (about $390 Australian / 230 Euro). Cheaper than the Datalogit software and you wont have to mess around with the hand controller anymore.

[paulr33]

has anyone on here used the retail fc pro software?

its nothing like datalogit or the power excel software.

its a cut down version of the power excel to allow you to save/restore your tune and a few other minor settings, ive read its nothing like datalogit & power excel. if someone could confirm that would be tops

[sav man]

isn't the retail software in japanise?

[paulr33]

yep its in japanese, so is the power excel software

[Guest Mashrock]

Yeah buy that data logit thing from new zealand.

apparently its the ducks nutz

[Sydneykid]

This is the process I tell people to follow so that they learn how to tune a PFC via the Commander. Most people just jump in the car and drive around trying to tune. After you have done it a few times, you can do it that way, but it isn’t the way to start off. It just gives you a headache.

The first job is to do your homework. Before you go anywhere near the car.

Start up an Excel spreadsheet and load in the default fuel and ignition maps

They are on the Power FC faq as a copy of the relevant Datalogit screens.

Also on the Power FC faq is the conversion chart for AFM voltage, RPM and their respective load points

Put onto the Excel spreadsheet the AFM voltages and the RPMs next to each load point axis

Once you have done that, then you can start on the car itself and take it for a drive.

Log the A/F ratios and the AFM voltages and RPM’s with you wide band lambda sensor.

Start off at low throttle, and watch the knock readings.

Once you have a bit of data logged, then you can mark on the Excel spreadsheets the load points that need correcting. Using the AFM voltages and engine rpm on the axis to identify the load points.

I start with around 10 of the common load points only.

Use the Commander to adjust those load points.

Then go for another drive and see what effect your changes have had, logging as you go.

Stop, and make some more adjustments.

After you have done this around 4 or 5 times, you will know your way around the load points and you will know how much adjustment to use to get what you want. This usually takes a couple of hours.

If you have tuned a car before (using other systems) you will now be ready to tune as you go.

So you can start to be a bit more adventurous with the throttle.

Once you have a rough fuel map loaded then go around the load cells and trim the ones that you haven't touched. There are always cells missed in a road tuning process. I just use a bit of logic to fill the gaps in

Then it's time to tune the ignition, which I do via the knock sensor. I tune for zero knock, so I advance the timing until I get a bit of knock (20 or so) then retard 1 degree at a time until the knock goes to zero. This is quit tedius at first, but fairly quickly you learn what the engine needs from an ignition point of view and you can quickly load it.

As usual, sometimes you have to go back and trim the A/F ratios a little bit after you have finished the ignition timing

I always follow the same process, homework ----> drive ----> stop ----> tune -----> drive

When you have finished (and several times along the way) make sure you load the maps into another Workbook in the same Excel spreadsheet. That way you have a standard (default map) and your modified maps on file. You can go back to them whenever you might need to. Shit happens and it's worth the effort.

Hope that is of some help

Cheers

Edited July 13, 2006 by Sydneykid