Another Skyline Fatality

[VB-]

r32 gts-turbo: your absolutely right! "now, lets change one thing" and wipe 5km/h off, WHY NOT STOP THE BUMB B*TCH WALKING OUT INFRONT OF THE CAR!

Ronin 09: yes i think they were all in the car, but hitting a pole in a skyline, they would be alot better off than in a laser. it would seem they were not speeding, so even if they were in a nice slow car, the accident could stilll have happened.

it just said they hit a pole, there was nothing about speeding or doing stupid things. its all of you that are continuing with the stereotype of skyline drivers being hoons. in this case even the media didnt persue the "imports make you a hoon" thing. i didnt even see mention of it being a skyline in that article.

and what is a 'low powered vehicle exactly, by your definition? was this car turbo? has anyone got any evidence of this, i even think non-turbos are legal under vic roads' rules, and from my personal experiences, non turbos really do suck, yes u can still get them out of shape, but u really have to try, as opposed to turbos where u have to be careful NOT to lose it

[saff_cossie]

I would also like to throw another spanner in the works with education. Tonight I drove down the Monash, well aware of operation Linekar or whatever it is. I found myself concentrating on the speedo more than the road. This point follows on from a discussion on another forum with a pom who has emigrated to Qld.

In the UK we very much encourage road observation and in doing so, give a higher tolerance on speeding. Up to 10% + 3 mph. For example the legal limit on a motorway there is 70mph however most police (and I have never been pulled over there) are fine with up to 80mph. It keeps the traffic flowing and takes the fear out of people.

Now I know this cannot happen here with the current standards on the roads but if I said to someone I was cruising at 105kph, I would get the look of death from them because of the speeding issue that has been drummed into the public.

To me if I have been taught to use mirrors heavily and observe all around very frequently and dont get me wrong, I am not suggesting we derestrict the freeways by any means but someone could pull out to overtake someone and quite easily gain 5kph yet be booked for it.

IMO this is an issue that needs to be addressed too. Eyes off the speedo and on the road.

[VB-]

again i entirely agree with you, more time lookin at the speedo means less time spent lookin at the road. of all the accidents that happen on the road (more so in residential areas) i wanna know how many ppl look down at there speedo, then look up to find a pedestrian on their bonnet

[Guest IH8VEE8S]

broadmeadows? thats very close to where i live, used to live in westmeadows damn poor girl only 17 years old tsk tsk tsk and the driver walks away with minor injury....tsk tsk tsk

i've seen a white 34 with black/CB bonnet around broady

[Guest IH8VEE8S]

i only actually had about an hour of driving under my belt before i got my Ps. been driving for just over a year now with no probs, knock on wood

imo it comes down to how you use your brain when you're driving, i don't think having more driving hours makes you any better at driving.

[redline2003]

It happened near my area. I went to High school with all 3 of the people involved. I was shocked when i heard. It only clicked that it could've been my mates car when i heard the age, area and car of the driver....found out later today that it was infact him... Such a nice girl too, i pray for her family.

[tom_g]

Your missing the point...all of you...in relation to this thread

Education,training youth has nothing to do with it...

Stupidity and trying to be a hero has....

Just because you own a fast car does not mean you can drive one...

The 20 year old would have killed someone eventually even in another car....if skylines wern't around

he's choice of weopen would have maybe been a XR6 Turbo

To many times we believe...when we are young..we can't die

He has learned the hard way ...that your driving can cause fatalities to others....dick head

I feel sorry for the girls family

Training ....my arse alot of good it would have done him

That is the dumbest thing i've every read. You say education won't help because stupidity is to blame, but wouldn't education be the best solution for stupidity.

I don't know what the rules are like in VIC for getting a license, but back in 2000 when i got my license in NSW i could get it at 17, no driving lessons were required (just needed to pass the test), i could drive whatever i could afford (no power limits) and i was only on my p's for 1 year. I know things have changed a bit over the years, but why are people given a license for proving they can reverse park and do a three point turn. Education will not stop all accidents but could do a lot more to make people understand the dangers of driving and understand how to control a car, it still comes down to the drivers decisions but i believe if young drivers were better educated they wouldn't make the same stupid decisions.

[eMsta]

RIP to those who died.

When i took my L's apparently we needed 120 hrs of driving experience. The L's last for 2 years (16 year old - when you turn 18). The 120 hours is a bare minimum - but this is not heard by everyone.

What they need is something like a test after a year on the L's, and then another one after the second year. Then, probably need another test for when one is off his/her p's.

Apparently NSW is going to bring in mandatory testing for old people. Maybe the whole of Australia needs to have a test nation wide (for both the young and old).

[VB-]

i only actually had about an hour of driving under my belt before i got my Ps. been driving for just over a year now with no probs, knock on wood

imo it comes down to how you use your brain when you're driving, i don't think having more driving hours makes you any better at driving.

i kinda dissagree here, although commonsense is one of the biggest in being a safe driver, having on road experience is what keeps you out of trouble. dont forget, it doesnt have to be your fault to be in an accident, and it infuriates me (probly more than anything else on the road, including tailgaters) when im in the car with my friends, and i can see something is about to happen, where normally i would slow and stop, they just keep driving, have a near miss and say "it was that guys fault", as though they did nothing wrong.

if you (not you IH8VEE8S, just anybody reading this) are one of those people that says "well it was his fault anyway" when you could have easily avoided it, then you are a f*cking idiot. you could kill yourself, your passengers, people in the other car, and even send the driver of the other car to jail (when its probly a nice enough person that just made a mistake)

i'm sorry, its just something that popped into my head and i had to get that out. i also just wanna make it clear, i'm not having a go at you in any way IH8VEE8S. rant over!

[700HP-GTR33]

RIP to those who died.

When i took my L's apparently we needed 120 hrs of driving experience. The L's last for 2 years (16 year old - when you turn 18). The 120 hours is a bare minimum - but this is not heard by everyone.

What they need is something like a test after a year on the L's, and then another one after the second year. Then, probably need another test for when one is off his/her p's.

Apparently NSW is going to bring in mandatory testing for old people. Maybe the whole of Australia needs to have a test nation wide (for both the young and old).

God rest her sole...

Inexperience might be to blame? but when you go for a test you do everything by the book.

When you get out of the test you become the stupid driver ,youth is dangerous...fearing nobody

I have a staff member who is 25Years and has lost his licence 3 times ....for speeding and jumping red lights..

He thinks his superman......poor bastard........he is only headed for future heart aches

The bad thing is.....if he passes away in a accident i wont morn for him...i just hope he doesn't kill

anybody doing it.

What is needed hear is a place where the young drivers can go and let it all out on the track,and not on our roads.

Then they will quickly learn their limitations....or see they definitely have them.

[Guest IH8VEE8S]

i'm sorry, its just something that popped into my head and i had to get that out. i also just wanna make it clear, i'm not having a go at you in any way IH8VEE8S. rant over!

lol no probs man

[Primordial]

i only actually had about an hour of driving under my belt before i got my Ps. been driving for just over a year now with no probs, knock on wood

imo it comes down to how you use your brain when you're driving, i don't think having more driving hours makes you any better at driving.

More driving hours does make you better at driving. In the first 1000 hours or so of driving you CONSTANTLY adapt to new situations on the road! There is no way to handle these sort of situations without experiencing them, or preparing yourself for the limitations of the vehicle.

Maturity is the key though. People who mature faster will generally be less inclined to take risks on the road. It's as simple as that. How you teach that - I have no idea. Maybe showing ultra grusome car wreck videos at school or someting? I dont know nor care - except for the fact that these kids are ruining it for the rest of us.

All respect for the family of these kids, but it's not our job to sit here and chin-stroke about how to stop it happening! You drive like a wanker - you die!

[lanc3]

More driving hours does make you better at driving. In the first 1000 hours or so of driving you CONSTANTLY adapt to new situations on the road! There is no way to handle these sort of situations without experiencing them, or preparing yourself for the limitations of the vehicle.

Maturity is the key though. People who mature faster will generally be less inclined to take risks on the road. It's as simple as that. How you teach that - I have no idea. Maybe showing ultra grusome car wreck videos at school or someting? I dont know nor care - except for the fact that these kids are ruining it for the rest of us.

All respect for the family of these kids, but it's not our job to sit here and chin-stroke about how to stop it happening! You drive like a wanker - you die!

The choice to purchase a skyline was turned down before i got my P's and I think it was a great one.

I drive an '03 corolla and its sweet as - has enough go and fuel economy is a win..

As i read through more and more of these posts I think to myself - what if I had been driving a skyline/hi powered car all this time as I think back to sticky situations.

To the people who say education is not the issue - it certainly is.

Hell I've never driven a skyline but through reading and education I've learned what they can do alongside all other high powered cars.

At the end of the day it is the driver and the way he/she conducts himself in these situations which defines the outcome. Maturity definitely does help as being 20 now I can see I'm wiser than when I was 18 (Not the wisest, but getting there.)

Idiots will be idiots in any car - but its how you train/educate/re-inforce and relay information to these 'idiots' that wil change the way driving is done.

..R.I.P and prayers be with the family..

Edited July 13, 2006 by lanc3

[GTRgeoff]

I would also like to throw another spanner in the works with education. Tonight I drove down the Monash, well aware of operation Linekar or whatever it is. I found myself concentrating on the speedo more than the road. This point follows on from a discussion on another forum with a pom who has emigrated to Qld.

In the UK we very much encourage road observation and in doing so, give a higher tolerance on speeding. Up to 10% + 3 mph. For example the legal limit on a motorway there is 70mph however most police (and I have never been pulled over there) are fine with up to 80mph. It keeps the traffic flowing and takes the fear out of people.

Now I know this cannot happen here with the current standards on the roads but if I said to someone I was cruising at 105kph, I would get the look of death from them because of the speeding issue that has been drummed into the public.

To me if I have been taught to use mirrors heavily and observe all around very frequently and dont get me wrong, I am not suggesting we derestrict the freeways by any means but someone could pull out to overtake someone and quite easily gain 5kph yet be booked for it.

IMO this is an issue that needs to be addressed to. Eyes off the speedo and on the road.

Al, this is something that I have quantified for the RoadSense group. The amount of time it takes, with rigid speed enforcement of 3kmh tolerance, to glance down and check the speedo, determine that it is correct (not just "about right") and get eyes up again and recognize a dangerous situation requiring braking you might as well have been doing 70kmh and looking ahead in the 40 zone. Unfortunately it doesn't seem that science or human factors engineering works for the politicians, police or their sycophant lying lap dogs at Monash.

Understand I don't want higher speed limits, just less rigid enforcement so I can watch the road, not my speedo. I can't tell you how many kids have been saved by me looking ahead and reading the conditions rather than watching my speedo. A ball bouncing in the wrong direction, a head momentarily bobbing through a car window, these are enough for me to react and be prepared to stop, but I can't do that and commit intense concentration to my speedo.

[Mavric]

Al, this is something that I have quantified for the RoadSense group. The amount of time it takes, with rigid speed enforcement of 3kmh tolerance, to glance down and check the speedo, determine that it is correct (not just "about right") and get eyes up again and recognize a dangerous situation requiring braking you might as well have been doing 70kmh and looking ahead in the 40 zone. Unfortunately it doesn't seem that science or human factors engineering works for the politicians, police or their sycophant lying lap dogs at Monash.

Understand I don't want higher speed limits, just less rigid enforcement so I can watch the road, not my speedo. I can't tell you how many kids have been saved by me looking ahead and reading the conditions rather than watching my speedo. A ball bouncing in the wrong direction, a head momentarily bobbing through a car window, these are enough for me to react and be prepared to stop, but I can't do that and commit intense concentration to my speedo.

I agree with you there Geoff... It's all very good to say that 5km will save a life and change your breaking distance but if you’re spending 95% of your time while driving looking at the speedo to make sure your not speeding you are at a greater risk of hitting something... Like in the city link tunnel their are like 50 cameras in their we all know about it and spend most of the time glancing at the speedo to check were not going over 80...(or what ever speed it is that at any given point in time)...

I have a similar view with mobile phones they say that a phone is a huge distraction as your paying more attention to the conversation etc… How come were aloud to have passengers in the car and talk to them while driving down the road along with those.. People that smoke in their cars… we all know to light a smoke you need two hands….

Again only way to improve road tragedies is to teach people how to drive and how to act in various conditions in controlled environments.. Not the close your eyes and pass tests that we have at the moment…

A lot of drivers on the road have no idea what it feels like to have their car spin out of control on them and how quickly you can loose control of the vehicle once this happens. If people had an idea of how quick this happens and what it felt like in a controlled environment they may not rush to driving as stupidly as they do on our roads…

[saff_cossie]

Al, this is something that I have quantified for the RoadSense group. The amount of time it takes, with rigid speed enforcement of 3kmh tolerance, to glance down and check the speedo, determine that it is correct (not just "about right") and get eyes up again and recognize a dangerous situation requiring braking you might as well have been doing 70kmh and looking ahead in the 40 zone. Unfortunately it doesn't seem that science or human factors engineering works for the politicians, police or their sycophant lying lap dogs at Monash.

Understand I don't want higher speed limits, just less rigid enforcement so I can watch the road, not my speedo. I can't tell you how many kids have been saved by me looking ahead and reading the conditions rather than watching my speedo. A ball bouncing in the wrong direction, a head momentarily bobbing through a car window, these are enough for me to react and be prepared to stop, but I can't do that and commit intense concentration to my speedo.

Exactly right, my eyes ordinarilly are continuously scanning the road and mirrors as they should be. Since coming here I have accepted I will aquire points on my licence simply for this reason at some stage (still clean though my nothing short of a miracle I am sure). I have a fairly good feel for speed but that is still 5kph out on judgement on average I would say.

With the road infrastructure here incorporating lots of right hand turns as well as left turns off higher speed roads, I find the need to be all the more aware than in the UK where higher speed roads only have left hand turns with long gaps between junctions. I have found I need to be even more alert to drivers jumping on the brakes to turn right and cars drifting accross lanes at the last minute yet I am told to watch my speedo. Unfortunately the speeding issue IMO is sending out the wrong message and is taking peoples eyes off of the road and onto the speedo to comply with the law and the message pushed into the face of the public.

BTW - Agree with you Mav with citylink as I pass through it most days. Rather than merge safely which might mean gaining 5kph's to slot in without braking, I have to go 5kph slower to take into consideration the downhill gradient and the cameras.

Has anyone else noticed the ripple effect from braking. A car could brake 10 mins ahead in a rush hour and every other driver will brake there until the rush has passed. I try to make an effort if safe to drop a gear here instead of braking to try and brake the chain for everyone.

[GTRgeoff]

Exactly. As mentioned earlier, if you are doing the limit how can you have an accident. The message is all wrong.

[Primordial]

A lot of drivers on the road have no idea what it feels like to have their car spin out of control on them and how quickly you can loose control of the vehicle once this happens. If people had an idea of how quick this happens and what it felt like in a controlled environment they may not rush to driving as stupidly as they do on our roads…

Too right...

[Sass]

i agree matt, the amount of people i see dawdling along because they are too involved in the conversation with their passengers and even looking at them more than looking at the road

[inark]

i agree matt, the amount of people i see dawdling along because they are too involved in the conversation with their passengers and even looking at them more than looking at the road

and yet my mrs gets angry at me when i drive cause i dont talk to her... its cause im bloody driving!! people dont take driving serious enough... they think its just another right they have to make their lives easier. People who have travelled in a car with me know how much concentration i put into my driving... checking mirrors constantly to make sure i am aware of other cars around me not to mention scanning miles ahead of any issues coming up and keeping an eye on the tard in front.

its taken for granted and not enough seriousness is put on the actual driving itself... sure its one thing to teach people all the crap about how to drive and where and what to do... but a need for showing people that this is a privilege not a right and that 100% concentration should be given at all times while driving.