Ve Commodore

[Cubes]

I had a clubsport, 5.7l 285kw version, i got a 10l/100km on a trip to brissy and back, now you can't say that ain't good fuel economy.

Ahh yes thats on the open road... Mine too was awesome on the open road but doodling around the city it was terrible.

[monaroCountry]

while Japan is pumping huge money into developing hybrids and efficiancy, Europe is developing groundbreaking disel tech, like BMW's performance disels, this tech will eventually flow down the price range. Peurgot is developing a disel/hybrid which runs a desil and electric motor. relly innovative and exciting stuff........

Europe = Diesel

Japan = Electric/Hybrids

Australia and America = Ethanol and LPG (Holden also supplies E85 Omegas to Brazil). Japan is so far behind America/Australia in E85 and LPG technology its not funny.

how much do they weigh?

80kg more

yep looks like a BA crossed with a mitsubishi 380, especially the roofline and rear end. not a fan, all the big aussie cars are really starting to look the same.

For those that compare the VE to the 380 and to Ford.

Front of VE v 380 and BA

Back of VE v 380 and BA

Sides of VE v 380 and BA

[Dingo]

Paladin I was speaking hypothetically in terms of cars that Ford and Gm have produced, even their older classic cars are f**king nice in my oppinon.

Funny thing though I once saw a replica Gt40 driving past my school, it was great.

Anyhow yeah basically accept cars for their pro's and con's otherwise youll just be ignorant and miss out on cool things that come in every car.

[The_Paladin]

I agree dingo that historically they have made some fantastic cars in the past. but they should be improving over time. they're not as much as they should be. too much cost cutting and BS

oh and the GTR is a purpose built car. Yes it is built off the base of a family car, however what i ment was that the purpose of the vehicle is racing and speed I've seen the GTR add's on the net, they're not saying its a family car. Holden tries to pass SS's off as family cars that are built for racing and speed. a horrible and contridicting combination

I'm pissed off with Ford and GM for what they've done to great car companies. they farked up Saab, Volvo, Aston Martin, Jaguar and a few others. new Volvo's and Jag's really do look like Fords. Car's are becomming crapper, they're not advancing. sure the tech is getting good but they're loosing charm and class fast. everything just feels so cheap. Ford and GM didnt get to where they are by making good cars, they did it by skimping on costs and safty features. By slashing jobs and wages, crushing unions. I remember reading that earlier on in the 20th cen GM bought up some of the light rail networks in the US and dismanteled them so people would go out and buy cars. Those 2 companies got to where they were by being bastards.

Edited July 20, 2006 by The_Paladin

[Modena]

I agree dingo that historically they have made some fantastic cars in the past. but they should be improving over time. they're not as much as they should be. too much cost cutting and BS

oh and the GTR is a purpose built car. Yes it is built off the base of a family car, however what i ment was that the purpose of the vehicle is racing and speed I've seen the GTR add's on the net, they're not saying its a family car. Holden tries to pass SS's off as family cars that are built for racing and speed. a horrible and contridicting combination

I'm pissed off with Ford and GM for what they've done to great car companies. they farked up Saab, Volvo, Aston Martin, Jaguar and a few others. new Volvo's and Jag's really do look like Fords. Car's are becomming crapper, they're not advancing. sure the tech is getting good but they're loosing charm and class fast. everything just feels so cheap. Ford and GM didnt get to where they are by making good cars, they did it by skimping on costs and safty features. By slashing jobs and wages, crushing unions. I remember reading that earlier on in the 20th cen GM bought up some of the light rail networks in the US and dismanteled them so people would go out and buy cars. Those 2 companies got to where they were by being bastards.

BMW M5 is a family sports sedan... horrible?

I think not.

[dangerous_daveo]

BMW M5 is a family sports sedan... horrible?

I think not.

LoL I was thinking about that before too. Its also not overly concerned about fuel consumption either, being a 500hp V10 and all...

That and as if SS's are 'race' cars. They have big engines with slightly beefier brakes and suspension. They are tow cars, and straight line.

[simor32]

yeah looks shithouse, another dunnydore

[MK2]

Reason cars all look the same is because of 3 things-

Current fashion, designers nick bits off each other all the time. Be it clear lights, Xenons, body panels, spoilers, towel racks or body kit, its not exactly new. Plus the fact, car designers are just like any other contractor, put money and food in one end, shit comes out the other end you can call your own, happy days.

CAD-Windtunnel design, basically. Chuck something in a computer with wind tunnel simulation and ask for something efficient, it shits you back a car with whatever drag co-efficient you asked for. You do it again, ask for the same co-efficient and guess what?

SAME SHAPE!

No suprise there really.

Economy of material, combined with CAD, windtunnels means you enter, your desired drag, desired size and desired price.

Hey presto (literally) it shits out another SAME SHAPE! wooo... no suprise.

Anything else, like bits of grill, flared arches, towel racks, cup holders, antennas, badges and other crap is pretty much bolt-on and has very little too do with the actual engineering or aerodynamics. They can bung all that shit on all they want and call it 'proprietary' that defines their mobile hunk of shit from the competitions.

I have no faith in locally made... um I mean 'assembled' (oops, nearly slipped out ) cars because I guess too be blunt, too the point and succinct.

Theyre f**king hunks of crap.

Owned Fords and Holdens all my life, tell you now I wouldnt touch this with a pole. Ford and Holden already had they chance too burn my money away recently and they can crawl in a hole and die for all I care.

[The_Paladin]

BMW M5 is a family sports sedan... horrible?

I think not.

I wasnt aware that BMW markets the M5 as a family car. infact, it dosent market the 5 series as a family car at all, they market it as a business/company car......................Seriously Professional.........

Edited July 20, 2006 by The_Paladin

[kralster]

I think the look alright. It's a little sad to see true aussie cars start to be fazed out. As in the new 380 and VE all take styling cues from european cars. The VE rear end looks so much like some Audi's.

But i guess they have to build what people want to buy.

We need to remember in business it's not about what you want it's about what the customer wants.

Also when people start saying how stupid it is to be releasing a car that big that will undoutably have quite high fuel consumption. They need to remember when the VE project started oil was around 50 US dollars a barrel. Not the 80 dollars it is now. And not to many people predicted the price to jump quite like it has.

I do think they need to look at other engine possibilies. We know that australians aren't the biggest fans of diesel in the world, but if you look at Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Alfa Romeo, etc, etc you will see diesel cars are starting to make a bit of an impact.

I think a straight six 3 litre turbo diesel would do quite nicely in a comodore. And make pulling the caravan even easier. And with the new six speed auto it would make a good pair.

[Modena]

I wasnt aware that BMW markets the M5 as a family car. infact, it dosent market the 5 series as a family car at all, they market it as a business/company car......................Seriously Professional.........

I am pretty sure an M5 in Germany and most of Europe is a luxury/sports family sedan just like HSV GTS or FPV Typhoon here. If you got the cash you can even do shopping in your Hummer...

[The_Paladin]

I am pretty sure an M5 in Germany and most of Europe is a luxury/sports family sedan just like HSV GTS or FPV Typhoon here. If you got the cash you can even do shopping in your Hummer...

i didnt think they did that. even if they did, it wouldnt be marketed as an everyday vehicle. prehaps in the land of Autobahns it's not so pointless as something like a HSV

[Rezz]

I think a straight six 3 litre turbo diesel would do quite nicely in a comodore. And make pulling the caravan even easier. And with the new six speed auto it would make a good pair.

Definately agree there. In fact for the VEs sake I hope Holden have got something like this on the cards already.

[AdamsR33]

i didnt think they did that. even if they did, it wouldnt be marketed as an everyday vehicle. prehaps in the land of Autobahns it's not so pointless as something like a HSV

A HSV might be pointless to you but to others its not a bad choice. Its no GTR but then again you can't tow a boat with a GTR for a trip on holidays with the family fully loaded and expect it to do it comfortably and easy. For a family man who can't afford to have (and i don't mean money wise) a GTR sitting in his driveway a HSV or FPV isn't a bad choice.

Whats the going rate for a R34 GTR,say $50-60k??? now that car can be anywhere from 3-7 yrs old now, no factory warranty, used where you can get a brand spanker HSV or FPV for same price that has 3yr warranty. Insurance would be the same if not worse for the GTR fuel economy well same, but for the family man he also gets in the HSV or FPV more boot space more passenger space and the best thing of all is that the wife thinks its a family car and its okay to have!!!

Granted that the HSV's and the FPV's are all just family cars with a big motor and a bodykit, but they are catered for a market which as we all know is out there, so if these cars are pointless, why is it that people keep buying them, i know if i had to buy a family car again i would seriously look at buying one, there is no way my wife would let me buy a GTR without it having room for the rest of the family.

As i said before, horses for courses, if it don't suit you doesn't mean it doesn't suit someone else. Wait until you have a wife and kids, see then if you still get to have a GTR sitting in the driveway, maybe you do if so what's your other car? In saying that though having a GTR and a family car you wouldn't need a hotted up family car. But then again not everyone can afford two gas guzzlers in the family.

Just a quick question, why is a HSV or aFPV so pointless?

[EfiOz]

Don't take this as another Commode bash but I am worried that Holden is releasing this car at completely the wrong time in history. Car manufacturing is a bit of a crystal ball game. The planning for this car would have started when fuel was still 85-90c per litre and no one expected another oil shock anytime soon. In fact, crude was going for around USD20 per barrel at that time! I know as I was in the oil industry at the time.

A couple of things are setting off alarm bells for me. The big one was Mark Skaife being harangued at the release by a pack of journo's resembling wild wolves. The questions came thick and fast about fuel economy and weight and all Skaifey could come back with was "it makes a lot more power than the last one".

Dear me..................

[MK2]

All's said and done about the fuel consumption thing, the fact is they have a guzzler on their hands that no one is going too buy especially if you look at the utility aspects of a 4door sedan compared too other options out there.

-Got a wife and 2kids, dont tow anything. Plenty of mid-sized cars out there which will do the job just fine, couple of them are pretty polished bits of work so theyre not a step down in luxury, safety or comfort.

-More than 2 kids, people tend too buy either big ass van or a big ass 4wd, added utility of the 4wd means you can tow things or go soft-road in it. Van means you can lay the seats down and chuck big things in.

-Tow things? Any of the big diesel 4wds do the job better than anything else out there.

So I dunno. What really is the majority, market share for these things?

Fleet sales? Know a few that tend too be going mid-size rather than full sedans for their sales and travelling bods because theyre a hell of a lot cheaper, especially if its for around town stuff. Press wont be kind too these people as the Skaife interview will show and it'll be a hard sell for GMH too move this beast.

As for the sports car comment on the GTR, jez.

Least its a 2-door

It doesnt have f**king cup holders

Goes fast

Has a race history

People actually race them...

How much more bloody 'sporty' does it have too be?

Edited July 21, 2006 by MK2

[dangerous_daveo]

Aussies like their big 6 rwd cars, almost as much as they like their big v8 rwd cars. My dad went to a subi liberty, loves it everything other than its got a 4cyl in it. He would go the 6cyl any day. Other than the price. In which case the commo was better. Ditto with the camarys, I dont know anyone who likes the 4cyl version, V6 they are happy with, yet many complain about the fwd.

And in to someones comment about they all look the same...

Accord euro, Subaru Liberty, Hyundai Sonarta, Mazda 6 also looks rather simliar just a tad more rounded. All good cars (yes even the sonarta, makes more power than the VE commo from memory with a smaller engine)

[kralster]

R34 GTR's have cup holders for sure.

[The_Paladin]

Just a quick question, why is a HSV or aFPV so pointless?

Because it's not upto scratch as a serious sports car and it's way to overpowered for a standard family car. it tries to be both and becomes neither. it's a lost car for people who think they can have the best of both worlds.

Seriously, the problem facing the 6cyc RWD family car in Aus, is that the market who use to buy those cars, now buys and loves 4WD's, they love them a lot more than the sedans they'd use to buy. luxury 4WD's didnt exist pre early 90's. back then they were actually built to go offroad. now they're decked in luxury and the ride hight and drive appeal to families. they are precieved as safe (even though they're deathtraps) and are more effective at towing than a commodore.

the bottom line is, is that many people who use to buy commodores dont buy that type of vehicle any more. when holden and ford realise this and stop investing crap loads of money into these cars, then they wont have so many headaches.

Edited July 21, 2006 by The_Paladin

[Dingo]

Because it's not upto scratch as a serious sports car and it's way to overpowered for a standard family car. it tries to be both and becomes neither. it's a lost car for people who think they can have the best of both worlds.

Seriously, the problem facing the 6cyc RWD family car in Aus, is that the market who use to buy those cars, now buys and loves 4WD's, they love them a lot more than the sedans they'd use to buy. luxury 4WD's didnt exist pre early 90's. back then they were actually built to go offroad. now they're decked in luxury and the ride hight and drive appeal to families. they are precieved as safe (even though they're deathtraps) and are more effective at towing than a commodore.

the bottom line is, is that many people who use to buy commodores dont buy that type of vehicle any more. when holden and ford realise this and stop investing crap loads of money into these cars, then they wont have so many headaches.

Okay so HSV has officially set the world record for worlds Fastest Ute, their clubsport R8's and their soon to be re-vived GTS isnt anything to shy away from and say "err its just a family car, what a piece of shit"

Fpv use Brembo brakes and Brembo brakes are used by Formula 1, Ferrari, Porsche, AMG etc the Typhoon has the highest torque output of any production engine ever built in Australia. It's ability to produce 80% of its maximum torque at 1500 rpm and over 98% at 1750 rpm, is nothing to shy away from.

And as you say 4wd's are better at towing than Commodores etc but they are deathtraps.

Okay so that just says to me ide rather have a "safer" commodore that can also tow boats/trailers etc.

Your like a snake swallowing its tail paladin.