The Great Dyno E-Doodle debate

[AlexCim]

I tend to agree with The Mafia here, i really dont think an R33 with an exhaust, FMIC and boost can make 190rwkw.

For example, my stagea made 160awkw with a GCG highflow on 14psi, GTR FMIC and full exhaust including a split dump/front (BATMBL), catco cat ($440 BATMBL) and 3 inch catback. ECU was untuned, but I blew flames like a dog (was running that rich but not R&Ring). I could blow flames from a standstill until middle of 3rd gear CONSTANT (not just on shifts )

Anyway, on the street, this stagea killed MOST things regardless on a roll, standing start, whatever. Infact, one of my mates has exactly what you say, full exhaust, boost and FMIC (not really a power mod anyway) and he would loose to me by a length or two on the speed limiter.

So, how can this be? A 160awkw unaerodynamic, brick shaped, 1750kg (plus driver and passenger) wagon beat a 190rwkw, sleek and lightweight (lighter) sports car? It couldnt, and this isnt from a standing start either, its from a roll. How does more weight, less power and less aerodynamics help me win?

I find many people just like having happy dyno figures. To me, a dyno figure is just indicative of how your own personal car is going. Id go to the same place every time, do it the same way etc.

Also, might i just point out another thing. Officially, stageas have less power at the flywheel stock than R33's.....BUT I STILL BEAT EM!

Skyline http://english.auto.vl.ru/catalog/nissan/s...e/1996_1/21671/

vs

Stagea http://english.auto.vl.ru/catalog/nissan/s...a/1997_8/21850/

However, I am sure once mods start coming, its neck and neck, but maybe the standard tune is different in the ecu?

[RB30-POWER]

Unsure if you remember or not but on the High Performance Imports DVD's they did a skyline dyno with different mods on an R34GTT.

This engine has higher output compared to R33 model (206kw vs 187kw)

On the Croydon Dyno Dynamics Dyno it pulled the following figures.

1. 100% Stock R34 GTT Car 148rwkw (R33 should be less then this power)

2. 3" Turbo Back Exhaust - 158rwkw (stock cat still)

3. Boost increase to 10psi - 181rwkw (remember R34 has bigger turbine housing)

4. FMIC & 13psi boost - 200rwkw

5. GCG Highflow, 14psi boost + PowerFC - 225rwkw (injectors 100% duty no more boost can be added safely)

Hope that can bring something to convo as well.

Edited July 18, 2006 by RB30-POWER

[2rismo]

The HPI stuff was before DD Shootout mode but you make a good point.

[33SOM]

well, if you want to be retarded then fine. Be wankers, it does not bother me. I love these cars, I simply don't just hand my car to some dude and do "make it go fast". I take the time and effort to research mods and find the best bang for buck.

I remember in your GT30 thread your mate fitted the turbo. You wernt happy with the turbo and were goin to change it. And you wernt happy with the tuner??

Nice research....

[mad082]

tend to agree with The Mafia here, i really dont think an R33 with an exhaust, FMIC and boost can make 190rwkw.

For example, my stagea made 160awkw with a GCG highflow on 14psi, GTR FMIC and full exhaust including a split dump/front (BATMBL), catco cat ($440 BATMBL) and 3 inch catback. ECU was untuned, but I blew flames like a dog (was running that rich but not R&Ring). I could blow flames from a standstill until middle of 3rd gear CONSTANT (not just on shifts )

Anyway, on the street, this stagea killed MOST things regardless on a roll, standing start, whatever. Infact, one of my mates has exactly what you say, full exhaust, boost and FMIC (not really a power mod anyway) and he would loose to me by a length or two on the speed limiter.

So, how can this be? A 160awkw unaerodynamic, brick shaped, 1750kg (plus driver and passenger) wagon beat a 190rwkw, sleek and lightweight (lighter) sports car? It couldnt, and this isnt from a standing start either, its from a roll. How does more weight, less power and less aerodynamics help me win?

I find many people just like having happy dyno figures. To me, a dyno figure is just indicative of how your own personal car is going. Id go to the same place every time, do it the same way etc.

Also, might i just point out another thing. Officially, stageas have less power at the flywheel stock than R33's.....BUT I STILL BEAT EM!

However, I am sure once mods start coming, its neck and neck, but maybe the standard tune is different in the ecu?

you can't compare 4wd power to rwd power. bolt the same mods you have onto a skyline and it will blow your doors off on a rolling start.

and when you say that you would be beating your mate by a car length or 2, was that from standing start? that might be helped by the fact that you have 4wd. and what power figure did your mate have?

and so what if you can beat r33s? maybe you can driver better than the people you have ben racing. or maybe you have been the one to initiate the race, so you accelerate then they do, so you have already started before they know the race is on.

Edited July 18, 2006 by mad082

[The Mafia]

Unsure if you remember or not but on the High Performance Imports DVD's they did a skyline dyno with different mods on an R34GTT.

This engine has higher output compared to R33 model (206kw vs 187kw)

On the Croydon Dyno Dynamics Dyno it pulled the following figures.

1. 100% Stock R34 GTT Car 148rwkw (R33 should be less then this power)

2. 3" Turbo Back Exhaust - 158rwkw (stock cat still)

3. Boost increase to 10psi - 181rwkw (remember R34 has bigger turbine housing)

4. FMIC & 13psi boost - 200rwkw

5. GCG Highflow, 14psi boost + PowerFC - 225rwkw (injectors 100% duty no more boost can be added safely)

Hope that can bring something to convo as well.

thanks for that - sheds a little light on my argument.

I remember in your GT30 thread your mate fitted the turbo. You wernt happy with the turbo and were goin to change it. And you wernt happy with the tuner??

Nice research....

Read the thread again -

my mate AND myself fitted the turbo. He did the tigging, I did the fitting.

and also something I never mentioned, I chose the turbo (GT30R) and the turbo dude here gave me a GT30. At the time, I didn't know this until someone pointed it out (Disco Potato)

Anything else you want to try and pick? Trolls.

Edited July 18, 2006 by The Mafia

[mad082]

Anything else you want to try and pick? Trolls

dude you are an arogant prick. you think you know everything, but have been proved here countless times that your info about the stock r33 is crap.

[mad082]

id be interested to know how youve tested this? my car runs a pod in the engine bay unshielded. i made up a poor mans cold air intake pipe (removed the pod) to run from the afm out through the stock fmic hole downards for my last attempts at heathcote. the result was sucking in much cooler ambient air from behind the front bar. just doign warm up laps on the track (track was wet) i could feel better response and more beef in the car as it wasnt sucking in hot air. i can feel it sucking in hot air, it bogs the response and doesnt perform as well when on full load, with given air "flowing" into the pod area. i simply believe sucking hot air in from engine bay is bad. i had a poor mans heat sheild which had lots of gaps and i need to really fix it properly. the stock airbox came out as the fmic piping blocked its path

so paul, are you saying that you took your pod off, and just ran a pipe from the afm to the front bar? well of course you are going to get more power from that, you tool! you have just gotten rid of a restriction. how many big power cars have you seen using heatsheilds? very few because they are a restriction. i would rather have the motor being able to suck in as much air as it needs, than have it only be able to suck 80% of the air it needs, but have it all cold air.

[paulr33]

i give up, seriously. theres no point

[The Mafia]

yeap me too. I know nothing about skylines.. My good tune that runs 108mph+ was just a good guess....

I'm bowing out of this thread.

[Rolls]

This thread is hilarious. I love it when people state things they read on here as facts and pretend they know what they are talking about.

Forums are even worse then the interent, theres so much more misinformation. Who cares what your R33 gets on your dyno stock?

Its there purely as an aid for tuning, or maybe to compare before and after mods on the same day. The figure is pretty meaningless even if it is accurate due to the whole power curve and delivery determening the speed of the car.

Someone should lock this, its not really helping anyone.

[smurf80]

My god I come back and its grown to five pages. There are alot of misinformed people in this thread.

[Noel]

Who cares about max power figures? Im no expert but its almost certain that the stock ecu is useless especailly since it was designed for much higer octane Japanese Fuel & although exhaust, pods, cats, bit more boost etc might give you the best bang for buck in regards to max power it seems that the most beneficial mod to do to a stock RB25DET is to upgrade the ecu than prob the IC...I know id rather have a healthier, more efficent engine running the right air/fuel ratios etc than one which is less efficient but makes more max power

My 2c

[teazn_r33]

im just goin to piss in the mafia boots

i made 177 rwkw in a s1 r33 gts-t with a fmic, zaughst (no dump) and 12 psi with a manifold leak haha this was how i got the car and was the first run i had

oh and this is ona dyno that is 3hp out of the national dyno comp dyno proven buy capa

i then done some upgrades with my r33

bigger turbo

dump

50mm gate

walbro pump

bigger fmic

clutch

malpassi fuel reg

STANDARD ECU

and i reached 298.1rwkw

i will get the post to prove it the curve wasnt that good but it hit you like a ton of shit try drivin it when it hits boost pfft

another case a r33 from a fella on here first got his r33 dynoed made 135rwkw then done fmic zaughst and ebc 12 psi made 199.1rwkw ??

hmm i have all the dynos to prove it to

remembering that the dyno being used is a brand new dyno dynamics only 3-4hp out of the one used for the nationals dyno comp

Edited July 19, 2006 by teazn_r33

[Thunderbolt]

^^^ My goodness those AFRs don't look very good. Glad you didn't leave it that way.

[The Mafia]

actually, a skyline won't make that much power at 14.5:1 afrs.. It will die, or simply won't have enough fuel to make the power.

Nice work anyway.. I'm sure thats f**ken fully sic spot on mate.

[rb26s13]

sounds like you've been visiting the generous dynos.

NO DYNO WILL READ THE SAME REGARDLESS.. they may read close but THATS IT

A DYNO IS A AWESOME TUNING TOOL

the power readings from dynos i would only use to compare upgrades and see wat was worth the cash and wat wasnt..

sure.. if you put a stock v6 commie on a dyno and it pulls 1000hp than there is something majorly wrong..

everything matters with dynos.. how hard they are strapped down.. the tyres the car has.. (shit ones spin so ive found out) also.. BONNET UP OR BONNET DOWN.. recent dyno comp showed a skyline running no bonnet (against shootoutmode rules) and it spun up 500.5hp.. put the bonnet back on and it spun up a measly 435hp.. (i say measly because they were making claims of 700+rwhp before the comp)

meh

[teazn_r33]

your like every other tipical sook it made those figures you have no idea wat u re on about mafia i think your just let down cause of the read yours got like they say no dyno is the same they are a tuningtool they will all be diffrent and yes there are ones out there that fudge figures

i posted the proof and you are still a sook about it

[The Mafia]

no sook here mate.

I don't see why a powerfc can't make an extra 60kw. I saw a Toyota Supra make an extra almost 100kw from going to a haltek (from a factory).

Its simple - Factory ECUs are tuned for 102 ron fuel, and they run like absolute shit when you put our fuel in.

They add heaps more fuel to compensate, and retard the timing because the fuel quality is so poor.

And Tezza you have absolutely NO idea.

You're running 12psi - The stock ECU's rich and retard strategy comes into play there. I lost 30rwkw when it cut in, and I have seen...I think it is 4 other R33's do the exact same thing.

And you are f**king joking yourself if you think an AFR of 14.5:1 is going to make that much power. Seriously, any tuner will laugh at the AFR and call bullshit.

I'm going off the fact that you have absolutely no idea about fueling, and tuning etc.

I can now see why some of the experienced tuners on SAU are avoiding this thread. Just a bunch of kids that threw a Sully sic big turbo\exhaust on or ran some boost and made 34987234892742 rwkw on the dyno and wonder why the guys that actually know what they are talking about call bullshit.

Seriously - 14.5:1 afrs? Thats absolute, complete utter bullshit. You keep believing that. There is simply not enough fuel in the cylinder at that AFR to make power.

another case a r33 from a fella on here first got his r33 dynoed made 135rwkw then done fmic zaughst and ebc 12 psi made 199.1rwkw ??

not even going to comment on that one.

Care to share any time slips? I'd love to see the mph your car or your mates runs at that "power figure"

Edited July 19, 2006 by The Mafia

[r33_racer]

Been away for three days and ive missed out on all of this. haha.

My 96 r33 made less then 143rwkw with std ecu, fmic, exhaust and avcr @ 12psi..usual crap...couldnt get anymore... Put powerfc on and abit more boost, upped to 14psi and i made 166rwkw. So i agree with mafias idea on dynos, and the relevant power figures, seems accurate enough. And drive train losses are about 80hp constant, not a percentage of overall power made.

There definetly is alot of people who have been hanging around the what my old man refers to as 'The dyno tuners for pimple faced kids' who look for nothing more but who has the most outright power with as little mods as possible. Whether that power is accurate or not...who cares. So long as my car has more then yours....i get the extra street cred yeh?

Edited July 20, 2006 by r33_racer