Gtr 4wd Torque Split Controller

[hrd-hr30]

  fritter said:

you can get the same thing on ebay for less than $300, is totally variable, not just switchable betwenn 4 or 5 settings and can go between 100% 2wd through to a torque split between the front and the rear of whatever you require. 1-100%, 100%-1.

this system is very variable, much more so than most I have seen, and the only 'tuneable' one I know of. most have like 9 or 10 settings - this one has 5 maps (a more sophisticated approach rather than just amplifying the standard map as commonly done) each with 8 levels of adjustment = 40 combinations. and you can toggle between 2 settings on the fly, which would be very useful on the track, or even on the road - eg a dry and wet setting. and it can data log. and... ah, just read the manual!

I'm sure the other ones do a good job too, but this device allows it to be tuned for different driving styles and conditions. If you base your decision purely on price, go for your life. but remember on ebay the starting bid is not what you will end up paying!

[MountainRunner]

Thanks mud, lol.

I think fritter fails to understand the technical side of it. For starters it is impossible for the transmission to split from 1-100% to 100%-1. The design of the GTR is to have rear wheel bias with a maximum of 50% torque to the front wheels.

As far as the other unit you refer to goes, it has a dial that is "infinately variable". This means it can change the aplification of the signal lineraly. This is equivalent to Map 1 on my unit, with a +/-80% adjustment (same as turning the dial if you like).

My unit also has another 4 maps, which give different handling strategy possibilities. For example, one map allows the GTR to turn in as it does now and then bringing in the front torque harder on corner exit. Ideal for power increased cars with oversteer on exit. These can then be fine tuned by digital adjustment (turning the dial). Check the manual for the description of the other maps. So I don't have 4 to 5 settings. I have a range of +/-80% across 5 possible strategies.

So your reference to infinately variable on the other unit is a bit miss leading being only a single adjustment.

At this stage I could also discuss the real time display of the longitudinal, lateral and 4WD split on the LCD screen as well as the capability to log the data at up to 20 samples a second for post run analysis.

I am happy to discuss the functionality and features of my controller, and encourage any comments.

Paul

Edited August 15, 2006 by MountainRunner

[T04GTR]

cool stuff

[MountainRunner]

Just bumping this thread as a few people asked about it last night.

Paul

[IanB]

Ill take one thanks

Ill come get it tonight if I can.

[MajorSick]

bumpy bump bump 0_o

I wouldnt mind hearing you explain how it works again sometime paul sounded very interesting

[RellikZephyr]

Just little curious on your output??

whats the waiting list/time like? Quite interested

RellikZephyr

Edited December 6, 2006 by RellikZephyr

[Bobjones]

Paul, are you going to develop an engine monitor similar to the one in Cam's EVO for the skyline guys???

[MountainRunner]

Sure am. I have my Engine Monitor going into my car next week. I will have 2 more in R33 GTST's in the following week and, Rajon will be putting one along with his 4WD Controller in the R32 GTR race car he is currently building.

Azzrura has been kind enough to review the operating manual for me as well.

Paul

[IanB]

Been running around with it for a few hours, I love it.

My initial report: Map 2 is best for spirited street driving - the lower the speed, the higher the sensitivity. At 70 sensitivity it will apply decent FW power at the 40 - 60 speed range if you give it quarter throttle round corners; this will improve the handling of the car quite well. As the speed goes up, I lower the sensitivity to go easier on the clutch packs - doing this also keeps most power on the rear wheels, with enough power on the front wheels to combat the overseer quite well - You can feel it pulling the car in the direction your pointing it in, while the rear wheels are doing most of the work moving it. With stock suspension, I have found that from the lights, downhill, I can turn a 90 degree turn with my foot flat to the firewall on map two @ 60 sensitivity and not loose traction. A bit unnerving, but I had plenty of room on either side should things had gone wrong.

My setup is currently a switch between map 1, 30 sensitivity (I don’t know if sensitivity is the right word) for normal street driving and map 2, 45 sensitivity for when im coming up on a corner I want to take quicker. Works quite well. For backstreets and lower speed zones, I increase the sensitivity on map two and I can feel the difference it makes.

Its also quite easy to quickly increase the sensitivity of the system on the fly as your coming up to a corner in a street situation (don’t know how this would go on the track) - The place where mine sits is very tidy, easy to access and easy to read. Kudos to Mike (Apologies if I got your name wrong ) for the install today, very professional - I do have one qualm - its rather funny actually, but its to do with the re-wiring of my boost gauge which he did on the side. It only lights up when the doors are open.

I will post some pics of it in a tic. And maybe sort this rambling mess of a post out.

Paul, if you have some time off soon, you should really come for a drive in my car and drive it on stock setting, then as I have described above. You will see what im talking about - its a whole different car to drive, feels more like a rex with grunt now.

[IanB]

pics. shots were taken at night. Will get better ones tomorrow.

[djr81]

Can I suggest some graphs showing, say on the X & Y axes the lateral & longitudinal gees with the z axis the ATTESSA output. Presumably if the rpm is a further input you would need to do a series of such graphs. This would help people understand what the ATTESSA unit is doing in given situations.

Secondly, if you can get the engine rpm as an input to the logger (Which I assume it is anyway) to be recorded along with gees it opens up a heap of useful data logging possibilities.....

Lastly some GT-R's (Mine notleast) suffer from push understeer (part suspension setup on R compounds, part turbo lag) from the mid corner on. Is there much scope for REDUCING the front torque on a high lateral gee (Approx 1.25 according to my logger) low longitudinal gee circumstance?

[MountainRunner]

Hi,

There are graphs of the maps in the manual which is attached earlier in this thread or in the thread titled "My Projects". This controller does not use RPM but my Engine Monitor does to drive a dual shift light. All my controllers can be networked together so you can log the data from both into a laptop thus giving you the RPM vs G forces.

The controller allows you to either increase or decrease the lateral G force signal at +80% to -80% on any of the 5 maps that are included. So you could reduce the amount of front torque contibution.

So far maccattack, jetman and Rajon have got great results at the circuit using the controller. maccattack has also started using the dual setup function where you can switch between two settings as you go around the circuit.

Paul

[IanB]

i would just like to add that I use the controller for street mountain use and it has helped alot there. Theres no track times or anything up there, but it allows me to enter a corner at a higher speed and maintain that speed, or indeed, exit the corner at a higher speed then I entered it if I so choose.

Thats running on stock suspension btw. Based on how the G sensor works, I suspect once I get the coilovers in im going to have to dial up the sensitivity to get the same results as the car wont roll nearly as much.

[EdGTR]

hi i am very interested in the unit and have been looking around for somthing similar for quite a while. i was just wondering about the installation of the unit. is it just four or five solder joints like some of the other style units around or a plug in set up.

Also either way i am very interested and is there a wait, for a R32 if it matters though they should all be the same i think.

[IanB]

6 solder joints I believe, power, 2 out 2 in from the G sensor, earth AFAIK.

[MountainRunner]

Hi EdGTR,

The installation is easy and we can help out with it. We also make brackets for mounting, check out IanB's pics in an earlier thread.

I have one black unit in stock now. If you want one, send me a PM or email pruzic@tpg.com.au and I will arrange it with you.

Paul

[EdGTR]

Hi Guys

Just a quick run down of my experience with the torque split contoller. I own a R32 gtr that is quite standard it only has a power fc, adjustable camber and castor arms and a cat back and of course the TSC(torque split controller). I took my car down to wakefield for the australia day track day with the autosports guys and had a great time. I only just got my car ready for the day because i had a minor front ender in it a week before christmas and it took a while to get all the parts sorted, but we got there even with a left hand front shock that by half day had leaked all its oil out and realy had alot of trouble keeping the wheel on the ground. The shocks abd springs all look original so they have done ok being 17 years old, they will be changed very soon.

OK so the tsc because thats what you will be here to read about. First session out i took it easy after getting the PFC tuned and a totally different wheel alignment done a couple of days earlier. But i found that the car really wanted to slide out of corners. The rear diff is also getting quite worn which was letting the inside rear wheel spin which really didnt help with getting the power down. About halfway through the first session (4to5 laps) i didnt like how it felt and wasnt getting the power down at all well so i changed the TSC from standard (map 1 no gain) to map 2 and 10% gain and the difference was huge! Being able the get on the gas erlier and alot harder it really changed to feel of the car. It felt and was alot faster through the tighter corners where before i really had to pedal it, now i could just accelerate out of the corner. Through changing the drive to the front it held a tighter line by feeding the power to the front earlier and also helped with mid corner turn in.

I left it at this setting and thought that i needed to learn the track and get my lines a bit sorted. Later on in the day i started playing with the gain looking for the best exit out of the last corner onto the straight. I didnt get a chance to play with the other maps but found that just on map 2 i was able to tune everything from power on understeer due to the front wheels breaking trackion to nice smooth neutral oversteer just by adjusting the gain. The biggest thing i found was that it made the car alot easier to drive faster on the track.

Ill be heading to eastern creek in a couple of months with coilovers and am really looking forward to seeing what it can do around corner 1.

[IanB]

Yeah there a nifty little unit. On my mountain drives I run map 2 on 45 gain and tooling around town is map 1 35 gain... I also have tein coilovers and adj. castor rods.

[Duncan]

good to hear Ed, a controller makes a huge difference to a 32 doesn't it?

As far as deciding how much front torque you want it is a compromise, on a given track you need more in some corners than others (sure you can change the controller during a lap if you have time, some are better suited to this than others)

Also it comes down to how you prefer the car to feel as well, but for me, since the 32 is a heavy car I like a fair bit of front.

On turn 12 at wakefield for instance I turn in very late and relatively slow, then mash the gas and let all 4 wheels pull me out - since heaps of front = heaps of understeer you have to take more of a point and go approach than max corner speed. If you are dragged right out to the concrete on the exit of the corner you have it exactly right. If you have to back off again you had too much front torque or turned in too early.

At EC you won't feel much in turn 1, but 2 and 9 will be very important, and 12. In all both 2 and 9 I use a late single apex then mash it - these cars have plenty of grip and power so you can accelerate out of the corner pretty damn quick

Enjoy!