Rb20det Lag Monster?

[Stone in Focus]

Okay people, first of all, I'm new here so hi hows it going etc.. Now down to buisiness. I've heard a lot of bad things about the RB20DET such as "high performance examples suffer from extreme lag" or "totally gutless down low" etc.

Now I've owned a R31 for a year, (well used to, its a long story), with the RB30E, with a cam, chip, exhaust. extractors, pod etc, probably pushing around 100rwkw. Now that car is gone and im looking at upgrading while I have the chance. Im very interested in buying a R32 gts-t coupe. But the problem is, the car will see occasional track duties and will be considerably track orientated, (as much as possible while staying street legal), aiming for about 250rwkw. And from what I've heard at his power level, the rb20 will be fairly laggy. Basically i need power on tap at every point around a track, particulary coming out of corners at maybe 3500-4000rpm or so, will there be sufficient power at this point in the rev range with 250rwkw to remain responsive and competitive. If so I will buy the gts-t no problems as i love every other aspect of the car.

Also, what rpm can a stock rb20det safely rev to.

Or should I just pay the extra cash for a rb30DETT, basically looking for neck snapping response form a decent way down, say 3500 to redline, the response/torque comes before peak power, but still has to have decent power to be competitive.

Cheers

Edited July 22, 2006 by Stone in Focus

[Interloper]

if you want 250rwkw, then you will not have much power at 3500-4000rpm. Infact you will have bugger all.

I had a shitty highflow that made 210rwkw and that didn't hit full boost till almost 5000rpm....if you want good response you will need at least a RB25 to achieve 250rwkw...

you can safely rev a rb20 to 7500 after that its your risk..

[Stone in Focus]

Yeah thats what kinda I was expecting, well response is what i really want so the RB20's out. Next Question:

-Does the rb20 share the same mounts as the rb30? ie can i drop an rb30 into an r32?

[Interloper]

^^ can't help you there

[Sheriff Wan]

Sure can but youll have clearance issue with intercooler pipng etc etc

My RB20 doesnt hit full boost till bout 5500rpm however if you get a good tune and a decent set of cams you could bring it down to 4000ish.

RB20's will rev to 9,000 if you want them to but under 8,000 safer.

Really depends on budget a well setup RB25 will see 250rwkw, full boost by 2,500 and bounce off red all day long..... again budget issue.

[Stone in Focus]

Piping clearence isnt an issue as I can fabricate most things.

Well if I'm going to be swapping the rb20 for a 25, i might as well put the 25 head on a 30 block and put that in.

Anyone know the availability and price of r32 coupe rolling shells?

[Cool Hand Luke]

I had a shitty highflow that made 210rwkw and that didn't hit full boost till almost 5000rpm....if you want good response you will need at least a RB25 to achieve 250rwkw...

I think thats not a good example of how a well setup rb20 will perform. as he said, it was a shitty highflow. If you look at sticky threads, you'll see how the cars develop power.... and from what i've understoodd are not incredibly laggy as some people will have you believe. Obviously cam gears will change the how the car develops power, and are a good investment. The revlimiter on my Rb20 was set at 8200, but hardly ever saw that many revs as it stopped making power at 7200-7500rpm, however you need overrev and most people have them set at 7800-8000rpm.

If you wanted slightly less power, you could always go the 2530 track... Makes a fairly easy 220rwkw with awesome boost response

Edited July 22, 2006 by Cool Hand Luke

[mitchem]

hey guys im anew guy

r32 gtst

thinkin on runnin 10 psi on dyno

next week is that ok on ceramic

[Stone in Focus]

Get out of my thread biatch!

LOL, nah just kidding.

Yeah I saw those graphs in the stickies and some seem to go almost straight up!

I'll keep on researching I guess..

I've noticed that rb20's are cheap as so i guess if i change my mind i wont be losing out too badly. But i would like to make sure they can offer what im looking for first. My main concern is slow corner exits. Does anyone here race a rb20, how do you find its response out of corners, what setup and power are you running?

Cheers guys

[Interloper]

^^^ pm 'roy' on these forums. He regularly takes his 32 RB20 out on tracks and i'm sure he can answer all your q's.

i think he's making 235rwkw with a TD06 8cm on a highmount trust manifold....

edit: do a search he's pretty active on the forums...

here you go: http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...=126750&hl=

[Stone in Focus]

Cheers mate your a legend.

And that sig is GOLD!

[Cubes]

Throw a set of rb25/26 rods and an rb26 crank in to the rb20 that will have it spooling earlier, then shove boost down its throat.

The rb30 works out too expensive if you want it too rev + your likely to overshoot your 250rwkw by a fair margin.

[Roy]

LOL..Roy = Minister of RB20 propaganda

Firstly, what state are you in. My car will be back on the road in about 2 weeks, and best thing is to take it for a drive and see what you think. Its a long way from the optimum/best set up...but its fun

RB20 and track work. Well the RB20 is in my eyes the strongest RB engine getting around. So makes for a good basis for a track engine. I think its the strongest because of the gear Nissan put in it, combined with the power ppl typically extract from them means they are never really leaned on. They take a licking and if you keep servicing up to them then they will tick along for a hell of a long time

So they are strong, next thing is they are cheap. For a short motor you are looking between $400-600. So if a pressure line drops of the fuel rail, or bad luck strikes then you are not in a big $$$ hole

They also lend themselves well to mods with an ECU that can be tuned...lower compression then RB25, short stroke so they rev well...and did i mention they rev

And they also make reasonable power. These days the bar is so high, 300rwkws seems common for the RB26/26/30 boys. But the way i look at it is a GT3 Porsche has what, about 240rwkws? Ok it is damn responsive and grunty everywhere...but still its about the power you need for what i consider to be a quick car

Now you will have realised i havent discussed the response thing Well it sounds like you already know that they are not great. Lower compression then the RB25, and 500cc smaller...its kinda expected.

But here is the thing, take the car to the track and see how it compares to the bigger engined cars. Where they wheelspin out of corners with insatant hits of torque to the tyres...i can just flatten the thing and by the time its hits full boost im normally about that point of corner exit that it wont fry tyres.

At the moment i havent really had too many good runs at tracks with problems wiht cars, wet weather etc, but in my one go in the dry at Sandown i have done a 1:25, which i think is reasonable for a first go.

The car can still go another 2-3 seconds quicker with more laps and gettign to know the track. So in my eyes thats pretty quick. If 330-350rwkws GTRs with a fair amount of engine, brake and suspension work are doing 1:20-1:21s, then im happy for a completely internally std RB20 with a Trust kit do be 1-2 seconds slower.

As for putting a std RB25 in there? Well im not abig fan of that. Just remember you need a gearbox as well, etc etc. They are no doubt better, but the cost to me doesnt justify the expense in a track car. It will sound silly but on the street, i can see the sense as it makes the car zoomier. But on the track, what the slowest corner? 55-60km/h? Thats boost in 2nd gear so not a real issue.

For a 3,750rpm power band i average something like 215-220 rwkws so its a good wide power band. 2nd gear i rev to 8,200-8,300 rpm, but with the higher upshifts dont have to rev it so hard as the revs drop less from 3rd to 4th and 4th to 5th.

And because im tired and being a smart ass there is yet to be a quicker RB25 powered car at the track. Actualy i lie, Lee Wilson, the son of the owner of AVO was 2 seconds quicker at Sandown, but i can live with that. By the time i get back there and do my 1:23-1:22 he will no doubt have developed the car and gone quicker...but point is, the RB20 wont stop the car from being quick. Hell, LOL after a track day i jumped on the the forum and a guy was carrying on about "that silver GTR was damn quick and sounded tuff" LOL it wasnt a GTR

$4000 spent on an RB20 will make for a quicker car then $4000 spent transplanting an RB25. (as a rule)

So thats the long dribble answer...they make for a good, strong, reliable track engine, that push the car along pretty well:) ...oh and they rev and sound great, RB26s sound good but lazy. You can hear every rotation of the crank in an RB20 when you are pulling 8,000rpm...they sound frantic:)

PS, that link earlier has my dyno sheet in it...but between 215-234rwkws at between 14 or 17psi with an 8,300rwv limit. Has donw it for plenty of kms, plenty of track days...and not a smidge of oil in my catch can...bone dry

[Stone in Focus]

The rb30 works out too expensive if you want it too rev + your likely to overshoot your 250rwkw by a fair margin.

Well 450rwkw would be ideal, but its the expense thats holding me back at the moment, otherwise i'd go the rb31dett route without question hahaha.

But as long as i can turn the gts-t into a fun track car I'll be quite satisfied...

...For now.

[Stone in Focus]

Wow, roy, thankyou very much for such a comprehensive answer. And for actually stating figures rather than just spewing propaganda.

Firstly, what state are you in. My car will be back on the road in about 2 weeks, and best thing is to take it for a drive and see what you think. Its a long way from the optimum/best set up...but its fun smile.gif

I wish i could take you up on that offer, but im in nsw, thanks anyway, I def need a ride in a 200+kw rb20 to give me a better idea.

So they are strong, next thing is they are cheap. For a short motor you are looking between $400-600. So if a pressure line drops of the fuel rail, or bad luck strikes then you are not in a big $$$ hole

Yes this is certainly a big attraction for me.

But here is the thing, take the car to the track and see how it compares to the bigger engined cars. Where they wheelspin out of corners with insatant hits of torque to the tyres...i can just flatten the thing and by the time its hits full boost im normally about that point of corner exit that it wont fry tyres.

Good point, as long as the power arrives in time for the exit.

The car can still go another 2-3 seconds quicker with more laps and gettign to know the track. So in my eyes thats pretty quick. If 330-350rwkws GTRs with a fair amount of engine, brake and suspension work are doing 1:20-1:21s, then im happy for a completely internally std RB20 with a Trust kit do be 1-2 seconds slower. smile.gif

Well theres an eye opener, just the sort of figures i was looking for, very impressed to say the least, imagine the look on the gtr drivers face when he gets passed by an rb20 powered gts-t that probably half the money spent on it and a quarter of the upkeep :laughing-smiley-014:

But on the track, what the slowest corner? 55-60km/h? Thats boost in 2nd gear so not a real issue.

For a 3,750rpm power band i average something like 215-220 rwkws so its a good wide power band. 2nd gear i rev to 8,200-8,300 rpm, but with the higher upshifts dont have to rev it so hard as the revs drop less from 3rd to 4th and 4th to 5th.

Thankyou, those figures pretty much alleviated all of my doubts. Consider this thread whizzed!

but point is, the RB20 wont stop the car from being quick. Hell, LOL after a track day i jumped on the the forum and a guy was carrying on about "that silver GTR was damn quick and sounded tuff" LOL it wasnt a GTR smile.gif

LOL, excellent!

Again thankyou for taking the time to answer my questions, I really appreciate and it's people like you make the skyline community so inviting.

Well, my mind is at ease, still more research to do but the gts-t is looking promising at the moment.

Goodnight.

Edited July 22, 2006 by Stone in Focus

[Roy]

I wish i could take you up on that offer, but im in nsw, thanks anyway, I def need a ride in a 200+kw rb20 to give me a better idea.

Hopefully the person im thinking of reads this and may be able to help you out. A forum goer with a damn tasty GTSt is just about finihsed bolting up the same setup as mine. Im coming up to NSW in Nov to do a few track days so shoudl rock up then for a joy ride or 17

Well theres an eye opener, just the sort of figures i was looking for, very impressed to say the least, imagine the look on the gtr drivers face when he gets passed by an rb20 powered gts-t that probably half the money spent on it and a quarter of the upkeep :laughing-smiley-014:

LOL...wont overtake them, but being 200-250kgs lighter helps you keep in touch. Imagine if a GTSt had 300rwkws? This guy was a bit shocked when i overtook him and pulled away down the front straight at Sandown (he was even running slicks)

[raz0r$harP.UK]

yea rb20 rulz

i have a rb20 with a td06 which has been off the road for a while for other reasons.... its getting tuned at the momennt and managed close to 260rwkw's on 20psi this was before the fuel reg decided to start jamming... so once thats fixed i will post up the dyno sheet

hopefully my car will be back on the road in around 4 weeks... im in nsw as well so you can come for a ride and see for yourself what its like

when i was driving on 10 psi and about 185rwkw it was extremely fun to drive and i wouldnt say to laggy. I think a lot of people over exaggerate the laggyness of the rb20s....

[Stone in Focus]

LOL...wont overtake them, but being 200-250kgs lighter helps you keep in touch. Imagine if a GTSt had 300rwkws? This guy was a bit shocked when i overtook him and pulled away down the front straight at Sandown (he was even running slicks) smile.gif

Damn, you've sure got an impressive list of kills But I daresay a lot comes down to the abilitiy of the driver. Once the car is up to par anyway.

Hopefully the person im thinking of reads this and may be able to help you out. A forum goer with a damn tasty GTSt is just about finihsed bolting up the same setup as mine. Im coming up to NSW in Nov to do a few track days so shoudl rock up then for a joy ride or 17 smile.gif

hopefully my car will be back on the road in around 4 weeks... im in nsw as well so you can come for a ride and see for yourself what its like

I can't get over the generosity of people on this site. I'll definately have to take you up on those offers. Cheers guys.

[Interloper]

LOL..Roy = Minister of RB20 propaganda

Firstly, what state are you in. My car will be back on the road in about 2 weeks, and best thing is to take it for a drive and see what you think. Its a long way from the optimum/best set up...but its fun

thats was a pretty inspirational post Troy! as you say, 250kg lighter with a competent driver can sure close down the gap to those gtrs....

Perhaps you'll let me take up that offer of a ride with your TD06? i can repay with a ride in my 32 HKS GTRS equipped.... :sorcerer:

[Roy]

Im happy to let others drive my car..its just as fun for me to see and listn to it from outside the car. You will have to make the DECA day in late August (or was it early Sep?)