Metal Shavings In Engine Oil

[AnFz]

Hi guys,

Did an oil change earlier today, after I drained the oil out of the catch pan I found something perculiar. There was about half a tea-spoon of fine metal shavings, about the size of grains of sand right at the bottom of the pan. I'm pretty sure they were a yellowish or silver colour.

I have read about similar experiences, but is this good or bad? What does it mean?

Out of the oil changes I have done with this motor now (about 6) I havent seen anything like this. The oil is usually dirty, but with no extra bonuses in it. I change it every 5000k's with genuine Nissan 7.5 - 30w oil and oil filter. Internals are standard, but have been running a GT2871r @ 16psi for the last 5000k's or so.

The motor in question is an RB20 silvertop from a R32 that had approx 110,000k's on it.

[TurboX]

Unfortunately its not good.

Any extra metal in the oil has to come from somewhere and the most likely place is the bearings, but it may be from elsewhere.

The only way to know for sure is to pull it down after removing from the car and inspecting internally.

But take the items to a good workshop and they may be able to determine further the best course of action.

[Beer Baron]

most likely to be pieces of bearing. is the engine any louder? any extra noises? sadly a better oil may have prevented it

[carl h]

might be rings wearing due to over advanced ignition timing, happened on my rb20.

compression on the old girl started going to hell and exponentialy got worse, upon teardown bearings were fine rings however were not and the pistons showed signs of heavy blow by.

[AnFz]

most likely to be pieces of bearing. is the engine any louder? any extra noises? sadly a better oil may have prevented it

Havent noticed anything louder or anything out of the odinary about it...

I disagree that a better oil may have saved it as I change it very regularly with a oil that Nissan have spent millions of R&D on it...I will accept though that this is a result of normal wear and tear due to age.

If it is a sign of the bearings on the way out, how long can I expect before it starts to get undriveable? Could it come from anywhere else besides bearings?

[Denver]

Havent noticed anything louder or anything out of the odinary about it...

I disagree that a better oil may have saved it as I change it very regularly with a oil that Nissan have spent millions of R&D on it...I will accept though that this is a result of normal wear and tear due to age.

If it is a sign of the bearings on the way out, how long can I expect before it starts to get undriveable? Could it come from anywhere else besides bearings?

if theres metal, its undriveable, the damage has already started, driving it longer will only make it substaintally worse..

if you pull it apart now, you might not destroy the crank, and it may be ok with a new set of bearings..

keep going till it spins a bearing, and it could also sieze and leg the block..

[Amaru]

I disagree that a better oil may have saved it as I change it very regularly with a oil that Nissan have spent millions of R&D on it...I will accept though that this is a result of normal wear and tear due to age.

Whilst I will agree Nissan would have done some R&D on their oils, the fact remains it was designed for standard engines. You have already said it is running a substantial amount more power than factory (GT2871R) so the Nissan oil is probably well beyond what it is capable of in terms of lubrication etc.

I agree with Beer Baron, a better oil probably would have delayed the inevitable.

However as everyone has said, the metal is there so the damage has already started. Its going to be a progressive downward spiral from here so you better start budgeting for a rebuild.

[ROB32T]

If you have just serviced it and only done minor kms since. pull your oil filter off and cut it open with tin snips or bIf you've just ig pipe cutters. Don't use a hacksaw for obvious reasons. cut a slit down the the paper filter and pull it all out and try not to break it too much. Once you get the paper out, unfold it and keep note of which side is the inner side and look at it in daylight not artificial light. If you see any metal shavings at all, i'd be pulling your motor down. This is pretty much the only way to be 100% sure you've got a serious problem. I do this on every car I own and I work for caterpiller so I have to do this to every machine I get and its never failed me. good luck!

Edited July 24, 2006 by ROB32T

[R31Nismoid]

Yeah, Nissan oil designed for stock motors.

Not motors running more boost, higher temps, turbos heating oil more etc etc.

Frequent oil changes might not have cut it

[grigor]

Do what Rob32 said.

It's the only way to ensure there wasn't crap in your oil drain bucket before you started.

If the filter has metal shavings in the paper, there you go.

[MKDR33]

ive had a similar problem too, but it had nothing to do with the bearings.. my problem was, a previous owner had tried to drill out studs which were snapped inside the head.. the idiot drilled too far into the head thus giving me an oil leak from there.. so i had to call a thread proffesional and reseal that hole..

when i changed my oil, i noticed a few metal shavings drop out..

Edited July 25, 2006 by MKDR33

[Wheezy]

Anth.......It sounds like the oil isnt cutting it...

The shavings are most likely from the bottom end bearings due to the oil shearing as it cant handle the demand.....The bond breaks for even a split second on thise bearings and wham, the bearing shears also. Eventually if it keeps up you will notice rattles and noises while under load etc, personally I would put a better oil in it before shepp and go from there.

[Beer Baron]

appart from being desgined for stock motors nissan oil meets a spec some 15 years old.... mmm blended mineral oil. it's not shit for just regular tootling around as it's cheap but if you want to have some fun in your car that stuff is a waste of time. an oil with good shear properties and film strength would have most likely prevented this. plus depending on how you drive 5000kms is too long an interval.

[AnFz]

Do what Rob32 said.

It's the only way to ensure there wasn't crap in your oil drain bucket before you started.

If the filter has metal shavings in the paper, there you go.

There wasnt any crap in the pan, in fact it was brand new in plastic as I cracked my old one...what I saw was definitely metal, and not dust or dirt that could have stuck to the pan.

Just took the filter apart (what a messy excercise), and could not find any bits of metal....which is weird, why would I find some at the bottom of the sump, and none caught in the filter?

RE the choice of oil...there are many reasons for and against why x oil is better then y oil....or why x oil doesnt cut it for some applications. I dont want to turn this into an oil shitfight

[ROB32T]

Sorry I forgot to mention how messy it can be.

well if there was no metal in your filter your motor is fine.

I know this sounds stupid but you sure it wasn't carbon.

[go180b]

i'd say at least turn the boost back down to 10 or 12psi till you can check it out more thoroughly..

[R31Nismoid]

If damage is being done, turning the boost down is totally irrelevant

[croat]

i would not see this as much of a problem. my gearbox has had light shavings come out of the oil like that. i worries at first then just forgot about it. now 1 year on 260rwkw and very hard driving its fine. no problems yet. i use genuine nissan oil too and have found no problems. everyone says something different so i dont really have too much personal oppinion about the oil u use as long as its not dodgy..

[R31Nismoid]

What constitues dodgy?

Inappropriate product for the application?

Or you mean something that doesnt have a brand on the box?

[maccattack]

RE the choice of oil...there are many reasons for and against why x oil is better then y oil....or why x oil doesnt cut it for some applications. I dont want to turn this into an oil shitfight

I can understand where you are coming from with this comment however, I would look at this (and by the sound of things you don't have too much to worry about at this stage) as a wake-up warning. Often people ask - "What sort of helmet should I buy". The answer is always - the best you can afford, because you are buying it to save your life in an accident - not for looks. The same can be said for oil. You buy it to stop damaging your engine. I have had a number of blow ups in my car - the last blamed on an oil not up to the task at hand. I now use an oil (that frankly costs a sh1tload) but it is far, far cheaper than having to rebuild the engine (again). Make up your own mind regards what brand you want to use - but just make sure it is right for the application.