Turbo Replacement/upgrade - Your Thoughts?

[STAGE-A]

he did say it was stuffed ...hence he needed to replace it, i dunno if that will make the difference?

[AlexCim]

lol, yeh, i guess a compressor wheel rubbing on the house could affect the lag a bit.

[pixel8r]

"The stock turbo tended to run out of puff at 3000rpm."

I dont think thats fair. My stocker was still pulling at around 5000rpm. However my GCG was still pulling at 7000rpm

Was that with a bigger exhaust tho?

I'm still running with the standard exhaust (tiny) which also appears to be THE most crucial part of my whole turbo replace/upgrade exercise. If the exhaust was any less restrictive, the turbo would run free-er, boost would be higher, there'd be much improved airflow, and I'd need some kind of fuel management, probably costing me $1500-2000 on top of the turbo itself, maybe even more than that.

The exhaust limits the airflow at the moment so that even with the new GT30 turbo, its still only running 6.5psi stock.

I did notice today that my ground wire for the stock solenoid had come loose so I re-grounded that and now it runs at 8psi and holding that very well.

Boost build-up comes a little later than stock (as expected) but it does pull quite good all the way to the redline.

Its very smooth, no fuel problems whatsoever...other than obviously the potential to use more fuel because it now takes in a bit more air.

[DaveB]

Resurrecting an old thread here...

my turbo is also on the way out, 'zzzziing'/whining noise gets pretty loud sometimes, especially when it is cold.

I have investigated GCG hi-flow (around $1,750-$1,850) and the GT30 rebuild ($2,450 !?!) both prices I checked ATS in Adelaide... the guy there (Bill I think it was?) was sure that the GCG was more laggy than the GT30... and also that he preferred the GT30 because "at least you know you're getting a new unit"... hmmm

Anyway, I thought I'd "do a Tangles" and check eBay just in case, and I came across a deal which looked too good to be true, and thus probably is. I thought I'd run it past everyone here first...

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...n%3D4%26ps%3D42

What do you think?

Edited November 1, 2008 by DaveB

[wolverine]

hi dave

the GCG units are pretty hard to beat for the price.

now i suspect bill is being a bit naughty saying things like 'at least you know you are getting a new unit'. the internals are completely replaced with new gear once the housing is machined. a bit like the GT30 unit he shoe horns into the nissan housing like on pixel8r's old car. very few people have reported a happy result from this approach. ie the nissan housing is a little small for a 500hp compressor + they are laggier than the GCG from what i have seen.

now if he is talking bolting on a GT30 as new with the standard garrett housing then you will need new oil and water lines, a new dump pipe & intake mods but that would be more like it...but much more money.

since price seems to be an issue then the GCG is bolt on and therefore there are no hidden costs.

the ebay turbo is not going to be a happy thing.

Edited November 1, 2008 by wolverine

[Tangles]

Bill can be f.o.s. in my opinion, the gt30 on your setup would be laggier than a GCG hiflow

for the ebay unit, dont bother, if you're going for journal bearing go for water & oil cooling

on ebay, look for known brands like hks, or a local aussie hiflow (they pop up now and then, like a gt30 but journal bearing (not BB) with oil/water cooling for a grand.

If youve got $1800 to spend then yes go the GCG, of youve got $1400 look for a rebuild hiflow rb20, rb25 or vg30 turbo with water/oil cooling (either Ball Bearing or 360% bush bearing)

or look thru jps trading limited, or similar, on ebay for a used 5000km old hks 2530 for $1100 from japan

I spent $600 plus a turbo with Slide for the rb25 rebuild hiflow 360degree bush bearing oil water cooled 250rwhp turbo.

bargain, 2yrs old this month, unbeatable value

[Tangles]

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/HKS-GT2530-Turbo-R3...p3286.m20.l1116

hks 2530 for $1000

there you go, thats the sort of upgrade for budget money that gives the best bang for buck

for a few years at least, if that gets 5 yrs of good usage in your stagea then isnt $200 p/y good value for money upgrade?

[DaveB]

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/HKS-GT2530-Turbo-R3...p3286.m20.l1116

hks 2530 for $1000

there you go, thats the sort of upgrade for budget money that gives the best bang for buck

for a few years at least, if that gets 5 yrs of good usage in your stagea then isnt $200 p/y good value for money upgrade?

thanks Tangles, $200 per year sure is good value.... waaaay less then it'll cost me in fuel

How much power is the 2530 good for/how much lag?

[DaveB]

hi dave

the GCG units are pretty hard to beat for the price.

now i suspect bill is being a bit naughty saying things like 'at least you know you are getting a new unit'. the internals are completely replaced with new gear once the housing is machined. a bit like the GT30 unit he shoe horns into the nissan housing like on pixel8r's old car. very few people have reported a happy result from this approach. ie the nissan housing is a little small for a 500hp compressor + they are laggier than the GCG from what i have seen.

now if he is talking bolting on a GT30 as new with the standard garrett housing then you will need new oil and water lines, a new dump pipe & intake mods but that would be more like it...but much more money.

since price seems to be an issue then the GCG is bolt on and therefore there are no hidden costs.

the ebay turbo is not going to be a happy thing.

Thanks wolverine; yeah at nearly 2 and a half grand it was gonna be pretty expensive... I can't think of too many more expensive options actually, without going over-the-top.

Being able to put everything back right where it was though is just going to save me money; I mean heatshield, dump pipe, manifold, oil & water lines... if I don't have to spend money on any of that stuff I'll save heaps.

Bill can be f.o.s. in my opinion, the gt30 on your setup would be laggier than a GCG hiflow

for the ebay unit, dont bother, if you're going for journal bearing go for water & oil cooling

on ebay, look for known brands like hks, or a local aussie hiflow (they pop up now and then, like a gt30 but journal bearing (not BB) with oil/water cooling for a grand.

If youve got $1800 to spend then yes go the GCG, of youve got $1400 look for a rebuild hiflow rb20, rb25 or vg30 turbo with water/oil cooling (either Ball Bearing or 360% bush bearing)

or look thru jps trading limited, or similar, on ebay for a used 5000km old hks 2530 for $1100 from japan

I spent $600 plus a turbo with Slide for the rb25 rebuild hiflow 360degree bush bearing oil water cooled 250rwhp turbo.

bargain, 2yrs old this month, unbeatable value

Yeah that's pretty much what I thought after reading about all the GCG stuff and pixel8r's experiences in other threads here... Bill said that they'd done a stagea with the GT30 option and the guy was really impressed.....

Turbo upgrade seems to be a bit of a minefield; best to go with something tried & tested. For me that means a GCG hi-flow because I get to keep my standard turbo, OR, perhaps this 2530? I have been looking for info' on it to find out how much power it's good for? I have so far only read about people putting them on an SR20 with a T2 housing.

Edited November 2, 2008 by DaveB

[Tangles]

thanks Tangles, $200 per year sure is good value.... waaaay less then it'll cost me in fuel

How much power is the 2530 good for/how much lag?

a hks 2530 is good for around 230wkw, which is exactly where the injectors max out.

with a good tune, using piggyback ecu(s) such as remap stock ecu + emanage ultimate, or safc&sitc combo, or the new vi-pec ecu, good boost controller, big fuel pump like 044 or 040 Bosch, Nismo adjustable fuel pressure regulator, z32 afm, good fmic & air intake and full 3" hiflow exhaust, thats what youd be looking for. 220-230kw

best of luck with it

oh edit: lag - what lag?? lol like a rb20 turbo but twice as good !! ie, no lag on the RB25det engine, pull right thru to 5500rpm before starting to run out of puff, good useable power,

great for on the street for 0-100kmph stuff Id say

[DaveB]

a hks 2530 is good for around 230wkw, which is exactly where the injectors max out.

with a good tune, using piggyback ecu(s) such as remap stock ecu + emanage ultimate, or safc&sitc combo, or the new vi-pec ecu, good boost controller, big fuel pump like 044 or 040 Bosch, Nismo adjustable fuel pressure regulator, z32 afm, good fmic & air intake and full 3" hiflow exhaust, thats what youd be looking for. 220-230kw

best of luck with it

oh edit: lag - what lag?? lol like a rb20 turbo but twice as good !! ie, no lag on the RB25det engine, pull right thru to 5500rpm before starting to run out of puff, good useable power,

great for on the street for 0-100kmph stuff Id say

Great stuff thanks Tangles! This is completely OT... but do you know if those Nismo FPRs suit the NEO RB25 or are the NEOs different? No details about NEO on Nengun.

[wolverine]

the 2530 is a good little turbo that will improve performance everywhere. exactly like tangles says. make sure it is a T3 housing if you buy one.

the GCG unit will get you more top end so for me that is what i would pick especially knowing it is new to begin with vs 2nd hand (caveat emptor) off ebay. i have a HKS GT-RS on the stagea but the price due to currency has gone a bit too high compared to the GCG unit at this point (they are pretty line ball performance wise).

a nismo FPR can push your injectors a bit which will do the trick with either turbo. the FPR is not model specific so it won't matter which RB you have.

as a comparison i have a GT3040 on the R33 with a HKS manifold and external gate all parts extrude honed etc etc (ex-legend01). buying the gear was cheap enough but fitting it all.....

new injectors, new clutch, exhaust mods, engine mount mods, intake mods, more tuning, more exhaust mods due to noise increases (all workshop stuff) then custom fabricated airbox, custom fabricated manifold heat shield (ok the custom bit means me pretending in the garage with sheet aluminium), moving carbon canister to make room for oil catch can, running around finding pipes, clamps hoses to plumb it all in.

ultimately the response of the stagea is much stronger at lower rpm.

the R33 does haul from 3500rpm and that is more than ok too but i wouldn't like this turbo on the stagea.

ps. the GT3040 has either a too small turbine or too large compressor (depending on glass half full or glass empty) to be a really good thing so this is a compromised turbo but this combo works really well even on the RB20 it came off.

Edited November 2, 2008 by wolverine

[KiwiRS4T]

I have just sent an R33 turbo to GCG to be highflowed. My turbo was going OK but after doing one track day I would like to do some more and i want more power so i didn't want to wait for my turbo to blow (posibly at an inconvenient time) but decided to replace it as a planned move.

Why GCG? I didn't want to buy any second hand or new knock-offs because I am not interested in taking a punt. Fair enough if you want to - others have been lucky. New HKS kits were from $3000 upwards and other new Garrett turbos around $2000 would need a lot of money spent to get them in (parts and time).

So I am happy to pay $1770 + freight (SAU price) for a known good ball bearing steel internals (effectively brand new) turbo with a good track record that will bolt straight back in with no drama. [bTW I have a basic Turbosmart fpr which seems fine]

[DaveB]

Thanks wolverine; that's interesting... yeah the price is pretty close between the two; also anyone seen/had experience with the GT2871 on horsepowerinabox.com ? They say they're a bolt-on replacement, and cost quoted was $1795... looks about the same performance as the 2530 to me (ie. slightly less top end than GCG hiflow - ~240RWKW they said). But I could then sell my turbo and make the excercise about the cost of a 2nd-hand 2530... hmm.

So I am happy to pay $1770 + freight (SAU price) for a known good ball bearing steel internals (effectively brand new) turbo with a good track record that will bolt straight back in with no drama. [bTW I have a basic Turbosmart fpr which seems fine]

Hmm best quote I have found was about $100 more than that from a place in Adelaide... is there still an SAU price available for the R34 (NEO) turbo GCG hi-flow?

Edited November 2, 2008 by DaveB

[KiwiRS4T]

Thanks wolverine; that's interesting... yeah the price is pretty close between the two; also anyone seen/had experience with the GT2871 on horsepowerinabox.com ? They say they're a bolt-on replacement, and cost quoted was $1795... looks about the same performance as the 2530 to me (ie. slightly less top end than GCG hiflow - ~240RWKW they said). But I could then sell my turbo and make the excercise about the cost of a 2nd-hand 2530... hmm.

Hmm best quote I have found was about $100 more than that from a place in Adelaide... is there still an SAU price available for the R34 (NEO) turbo GCG hi-flow?

I seem to remember RB20, 25 and neo were all the same price although I suppose you could get different specs with your larger exhaust housing. They no longer have prices on their website but there is an email address. http://www.gcg.com.au/

[wolverine]

the HKS GT-RS is a GT2871 but the the HKS unit has its own HKS T3 turbine cover with a 52trim compressor. depending on the trim of the compressor they can vary in hp output. the turbine is 53mm or so. turbine housing design can make quite a difference to performance.

the hpinabox version will be like what bill at ATS was suggesting with the GT30 (i presume) ie shoehorning the GT2871 into a nissan turbine cover. theoretically should get a very similar result as the GCG version as the compressor wheel is probably the same or close enough.

Edited November 2, 2008 by wolverine

[_Ryan_]

aren't GCG highflow's GT30 based though? so would they be using a 3071 and ATS using a 3076?

i will be looking at a 2871 when my turbo dies, 30series will have better top end, but being auto, its the mid range i care about!

[DaveB]

the HKS GT-RS is a GT2871 but the the HKS unit has its own HKS T3 turbine cover with a 52trim compressor. depending on the trim of the compressor they can vary in hp output. the turbine is 53mm or so. turbine housing design can make quite a difference to performance.

the hpinabox version will be like what bill at ATS was suggesting with the GT30 (i presume) ie shoehorning the GT2871 into a nissan turbine cover. theoretically should get a very similar result as the GCG version as the compressor wheel is probably the same or close enough.

Reply from hpinabox was "~240rwkw" and "very good lag wise". I'm guessing that with the slightly lower top-end it should spool a bit lower? However the GT30 sounded a bit laggy by comparison. Guess I need to ask the usual questions like is it a steel exhaust wheel, does it come with actuator/what pressure, etc.

aren't GCG highflow's GT30 based though? so would they be using a 3071 and ATS using a 3076?

i will be looking at a 2871 when my turbo dies, 30series will have better top end, but being auto, its the mid range i care about!

There is a GT2871R, GT3071R and GT3076R on hpinabox's site, all under $2,000...

On hpinabox u have the turbo comparison chart which I found handy; 2871R comes in 48 compressor wheel trim (model=GT35, 390hp) or 52 compressor wheel trim (model=GT35, 440hp). Exhaust housing/wheel looks to be the same in both cases (76 trim).

Obviously the extra top end is appealing, especially since there is no difference in price from what I can see (you just specify the trim you want). But I wonder if the 52 trim would be noticeably laggy? Surely no more than the GCG hiflow, which makes the same or a bit more, power?

I thought the 2871R turbo looked an appealing option because:

- I was told $1,795 brand new, bolt-on for RB25, ~240rwkw (yet to find out if that includes postage/postage cost if it doesn't)

- that's about the cost of an (awesome) GCG hi-flow, but makes slightly less power BUT I would then have a RB25 NEO turbo to sell to recoup a few hundred dollars or so, bringing the total cost nearer $1,500.

What do you guys think? I don't know much about turbos... one could so easily be caught out by installing something they didn't know was going to be laggy, or had a limited top-end for their engine application etc etc

If I can get stock-like spool/"lagginess" and just over 200awkw out of this 2871R I would be happy

[Tangles]

man, the GT2871 sounds like the best option.

for an auto stagea, 240rwkw maxing out the turbo and injectors (with fpr & ecu), sounds great mate !!

best of luck

edit: sounds like my slide turbo, just a bush bearing unit.

[wolverine]

check that the HPIAB 2871 really is a bolt-on. you may need new oil and water lines and may need to modify the intake.