Power Fc Rb20 Problem... Only Starts W/ Stock Ecu

[RBsileighty]

Car runs fine on stock ecu... power fc lights up etc but just cranks forever... advice?

Also installing boost kit 415-a001 but can't find where to install solinoid wires (two prong plug with nowhere to connect).

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Already init the power fc... didn't change anything

[Craved]

checked all under dash fuses? has caused some issues in the R33's

[r33_racer]

check that all the relays behind the kickpanel where the ecu goes are all there and plugged in properly. I think they are the green and blue ones from memory.

What about the boost solenoid option in the menu? Dont you have to turn that off before the car will start or something. I cant remember now, damn im pretty sure there was something with that option. Or maybe its turn it on.

Question about the car. Is it in a r32 or in something else? The rb20 that is.

[Waldo]

if you dont have the boost kit installed u need to turn it off go to the menu and make sure its on a littlew + symbol,,,and to wire it in you need to splice the 2 wire plug into the wireing loom onto terminals 60 and 53 i think i cant remmeber since i did mine ages ago....oh and a tip dont use a power fc boost kit they suck

[RBsileighty]

if you dont have the boost kit installed u need to turn it off go to the menu and make sure its on a littlew + symbol,,,and to wire it in you need to splice the 2 wire plug into the wireing loom onto terminals 60 and 53 i think i cant remmeber since i did mine ages ago....oh and a tip dont use a power fc boost kit they suck

Ehh... already ordered it, so I'll use it. Thanks for the wiring tip since I'd never have figured that out! Do you know what wires those are suppose to be?

I'm going to look back through my wiring to double check if it's right or not... it's a RB20 in a S13

Here are some pics of the car... waiting to install my 270 int/exh cams and gears for after the power FC install as I want a step by step improvement for each mod (baseline was 166rwhp for baseline, but I think the stock ecu is confused with the RB25 turbo, FMIC, 80mm turbo back (I made the front section... RSR GTII catback with no cat), and Apex pod filter). My baseline was done on a Dynapack, which I have 2 more sessions reserved and waiting... one with the Power FC/boost controller (hitting boost cut at 6500 @ 0.85bar) and the next with the cams. My CE28N's and Stoptechs are also waiting on my front hubs... but that's not power related...

Here are some pics of the car... thanks for the help!

[RBsileighty]

53 is a speed sensor... I'd assume you used 25? Thanks again for the help!

1 Ign signal (power transistor) Cyl #1

2 Ign signal (power transistor) Cyl #5

3 Ign signal (power transistor) Cyl #3

6 Sub electrical fan relay (engine temp switch)

7 Tacometeter speed signal

9 AC relay (AC cut signal)

10 Ground (ign signal system)

11 Ign signal (power transistor) Cyl #6

12 Ign signal (power transistor) Cyl #2

13 Ign signal (power transistor) Cyl #4

16 ECCS relay

19 Power steering oil pressure switch

20 Ground (ignition signal system)

21(RX) Receive (control unit data reception)

22 (TX) Transmit (data sent from control unit)

23 Detonation sensor 1 (cyl 1-3)

24 Detonation sensor 2 (cyl 4-6)

25 Wastegate valve control solenoid valve

26 Air flow meter ground

27 Air flow meter intake air quantity signal

28 Engine temp sensor

29 Exhaust temp sensor

30 Sensor ground

32 Monitor and check lamp (red)

34 Air flow meter ground

35 Air flow meter inatek air quantity signal

36 Intak air temp sensor

38 Throttle opening output

41 Crank angle sensor (120degree signal)

42 Crank angle sensor (1 degree signal)

43 Ignition switch START signal

44 Neutral switch

45 (IGN) Ignition switch (IGN)

46 AC switch

47 (CHK) Check (diagnosis activation)

48 Throttle sensor power supply supply

49 Control unit power supply

50 Ground (control unit)

51 Crank angle sensor (120 degree signal)

52 Crank angle sensor (1 degree signal)

53 Vehicle speed sensor

54 Throttle valve switch (idle connection point)

55 Exhaust gas sensor (rear)

56 Throttle sensor output signal

57 Throttle valve switch power supply

58 Battery power supply

59 Control unit power supply

60 Ground (control unit)

101 Injector #1

102 - 110 Injector #5

103 Injector #3

104 Fuel pump terminal voltage control output

105 Injector #2 106 Fuel pump terminal voltage control output

107 Injector ground 115 -

108 Injector ground 116 Injector ground

109 Injector power supply (counter electromotive reflex circuit)

112 Injector 6

114 Injector 4

Edited July 27, 2006 by RBsileighty

[BlueRB240]

Is this a rb20 pfc? or a rb25 PFC? If it's the 25 version you need to switch #6 and #5 injector sine the pins are reversed. I thought the boost controller plugged into the side of the PFC? At any rate just get a real boost controller that PFC unit is weak sauce. My friend that use to work at Apexi Usa told me that they were a pos and the AVCR was much better because it was a dedicated unit.

[paulr33]

its the same solenoid and sensor. if anything more people have more sucess using the powerfc boost kit over the avcr. a lot of people have issues with the avcr. i dont understand why, but they do. the powerfc boost it spot on. dial in boost, set duty and save. nothing more, no crap to fiddle with.

check out SENSOR SW CHECK, anything in black ?

[Cubes]

Interesting regarding the pfc boost kit..

I've attached an r32 r33 pinout comparison.

Pin 25 is the r33's ecu solanoid control.

Be sure to let us know how you go. Without myself looking does the R32 loom have a wire running to pin25? It may as the R32 GTST and GTR looms are very similiar, so the GTST loom may simply have the solanoid provision there.

[Cubes]

Interesting regarding the pfc boost kit..

I've attached an r32 r33 pinout comparison.

It does appear to be pin 25.

Be sure to update and let us know how you go. As with any self learning ebc be sure to load it up from a low rpm in a high gear to redline, best done on a dyno. This prevents spiking, often the problem many have with the avcr. They are sent through the boost learn process incorrectly.

The PFC EBC is nothing more than an avcr with less features.. and does the job perfectly fine for half the price.

[paulr33]

if the ap eng rb20 PFC only has 3 pins for the boost kit connector then there must be a wastegate control wire somewhere on the loom that is a switched ground by the PFC to turn the solenoid on/off

[Cubes]

Yep my AP R32 PFC only has 3pins. So yes the solanoid is ground via the ecu somewhere, assuming pin 25 due to the similarities of the R32 pfc and early rb25/pfc pro pfc's.

Its also worth nothing paul that Andre (Fasthatch) of the new pfc datalogit type software said the AP PFC uses a really old data transfer method, or something along those lines at least.

Which is why I still haven't seen the beta working version as he is having to tweak it to get it working correctly. + he busy and writing software takes a loooong time.

[paulr33]

yeah so its a case of someone has to find which wire # it is. when they do ill add it to the faq. right so the older pfc version 2,3 is the poor mans protocol and 4/5 is newer protocol. it sounds like its that wierd write by write method for the maps. how long does it take to load maps into datalogit when u do read all? r33 is instant. sorry more important how long does it take u to do a write all ?

[Cubes]

There is definitely a few second delay as it reads and writes.

Whats also interesting is just reading the fuel or ign. map or even update takes just as long as a read all.

[RBsileighty]

Ok... so interesting issue. Nothing was wrong with my wiring... just had to add a ton of fuel for the "cranking" setting and she fired up (~20 for 50 deg C and ~15 for 80 deg C so it wouldn't screw up the interpolation... since the car was at 53 when I started it).

However, it runs great on the stock ecu... but with the AP PFC (R32) it surged a lot... and idled poorly. I was letting it do the "self learn" thing, but it didn't work so well. I'll be doing some reading in the manual...

I'm going to use the PFC Boost Control Kit... I like the idea of a closed loop boost controller setup. I agree with the Pin 25 for the wiring... I'll let you know how it goes, but need to get it running without it first (function is cut off in setup). The AP PFC BCK is a 3 wire plug in and the solinoid wires into the factory harness (had one of the Japanese guys at work read the install book for me to double check... one of the many advantages for being a Nissan engineer!).

[Cubes]

RBsileighty,

With regards to the cranking issue its a known issue with the ap engineering pfc, the values are incorrect.

Mine would start no problems when cold but would sit there and crank over and over when warm.

The values I use are:

+80 - 9ms

+50 - 12ms

+30 - 21ms

+10 - 35ms

Without the +10 at 35ms it would stumble really bad after a cold crank and take a little longer than I would like for it to fire.

For the water temp enrichment I run. (Leaner than std values)

+80 1.000 1.000

+50 1.031 1.078

+30 1.063 1.219

+10 1.203 1.438

With those values mine starts and drives perfectly.

I've had to lean off +10 as if any richer it would some times cause a slight stumble after start.

My idle is 100% perfect infact better than the stock ecu.

There's a couple of things you must be sure are correct for you to obtain a nice idle.

1. AAC valve is squeeky clean and solanoid operating correctly

2. IAC valve is working correctly

3. Idle afr's are correct and o2 sensor working well

4. AAC valve is adjusted correctly to suit the pfc's idle value

5. TPS is adjusted correctly

6. No atmo bov (causes stalling)

7. Idle learn procedure is done when the car is warm

Apart from that it does take a week or so until it settles down 100%.

[RBsileighty]

Ok... I'm back at it. I'm going to install a wideband this week and then I'll get it all dialed in so I'll finally be making more power and merrit the brakes and wheels that took temp priority over the power fc install:

http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread/191649

Thanks again for everyone's help! I'll post up the dyno results as soon as I get them... still have two sessions reserved on the dyno... one for the Power FC gains... and one for the 270 deg tomei pro cams (lash type) and tomei cam gears.

Anyone have advise on how to degree the cams without solid lifters?

Edited August 14, 2006 by RBsileighty

[RBsileighty]

She's up and running! Started first shot with standard trim settings... I put in yours, cubes when I got to my first stop in the first drive and it started surging. Still surged and I added fuel to ~1.3 correction and it quit surging. Any thoughts on this one?

How do you control the boost controller? I don't really understand its control screen... and of course the book is japanese.

Thanks again for everyone's help!

Oh... and when I start the car the correction screen is back to 1.0. Is it perm changing my maps (b/c it surges on start up and fixes once the correction factor is set to ~1.3 again)? My Bosch friend's inlaws are gone.... so hopefully I have time to weld in another bung for the wideband and he can help me tune this weekend.

Edited August 17, 2006 by RBsileighty

[paulr33]

powerfc faq covers the correction mode (it resets back 1.0 on power off)

and how to use the boost control kit

[Cubes]

She's up and running! Started first shot with standard trim settings... I put in yours, cubes when I got to my first stop in the first drive and it started surging. Still surged and I added fuel to ~1.3 correction and it quit surging. Any thoughts on this one?

How do you control the boost controller? I don't really understand its control screen... and of course the book is japanese.

Thanks again for everyone's help!

Oh... and when I start the car the correction screen is back to 1.0. Is it perm changing my maps (b/c it surges on start up and fixes once the correction factor is set to ~1.3 again)? My Bosch friend's inlaws are gone.... so hopefully I have time to weld in another bung for the wideband and he can help me tune this weekend.

Correction? I'm assuming you are talking about the water temp correction table...

It could be a few thigns.. I'm running a 9:1 comp ratio so I 'may' be able lean her off a little before combustion issues arise when the car is cold; it could be the headwork and combustion chamber design or possibly even how well the injectors atomize the fuel.

I've spent quite a bit of time slowly leaning mine off until i began to feel drivability issues.

As the engine comes up to temp so damn quickly (2km's or a 2-3mins from a cold start) its a very slow process getting the +10, +30 and +50 spot on, I've still got a little work to do on the +50 as it feels as if it could be leaned off a tad more.

Post up your water temp enrichment table..

What cranking inj. values have you settled on?

The PFC shouldn't be loosing any information from the wate temp correction and inj cranking ms tables. If it is there is an issue, which I believe is also covered in the pfc faq. IF however you are playing with the other inj. and timing correction then I wouldn't be fiddling with that as there is no need.