Running Bigger/hiflow Turbo With Stock Ecu?

[Andi]

Hey all,

Been a while but I've finally been bitten by the modding bug again. Thinking of getting a new turbo for the R34, namely the GCG Hiflow but a thought occured:

How will it cope without an ECU upgrade?

Is it possible to have a car running nicely without an engine management modifications, leaving the stock ECU to handle things? Will I run into problems such as the infamous "rich and retard" where the afm senses too much air tries to compensate by retarding timing and adding more fuel?

Those with upgraded turbos and stock ECU, can you guys tell me how your car runs?

Thanks,

Andy

[R31Nismoid]

WIthout an ECU upgrade

Its essentially pointless.

The stocker ECU will hit rich and retard in many places.

I doubt anyone is running an upgraded turbo on a stock ECU.

[azamataz]

correct me if im wrong but wasnt pnblight's first mods a new set of turbs? he didnt mention any trouble and now running 500+hp atw. However its not the best mod in terms of power/dollars but for security reasons its worth upgrading the turbos

[R31Nismoid]

? People posting after drinking half a slab?

He is talking about an R34 GT-t. What that has to do with Petes car, and 500rwhp ill never know and power/dollars for mods

[AlexCim]

WIthout an ECU upgrade

Its essentially pointless.

The stocker ECU will hit rich and retard in many places.

I doubt anyone is running an upgraded turbo on a stock ECU.

Stagea used to be full split pipe exhaust with metal cat, gtr fmic and GCG highflow.

Total stock ecu, no tune at all. Just boost was upped to 1 bar with no R&R unless on really cold and oddly, also had to be foggy, nights. However as far as I know, the Skyline ecu tune is different to the stagea, I was surprized how little R&R i hit.

Stock stageas make about 120awkw, mine made 160awkw. With a DFA/SITC tune I would have made 200awkw pretty easy.

Turbo made a MASSIVE difference actually. The top end was improved SO much and lag not sacrificed.

So yes, I was running an upgraded turbo on a stock ECU.

[Andi]

Stagea used to be full split pipe exhaust with metal cat, gtr fmic and GCG highflow.

Total stock ecu, no tune at all. Just boost was upped to 1 bar with no R&R unless on really cold and oddly, also had to be foggy, nights. However as far as I know, the Skyline ecu tune is different to the stagea, I was surprized how little R&R i hit.

Stock stageas make about 120awkw, mine made 160awkw. With a DFA/SITC tune I would have made 200awkw pretty easy.

Turbo made a MASSIVE difference actually. The top end was improved SO much and lag not sacrificed.

So yes, I was running an upgraded turbo on a stock ECU.

Excellent news, becuase thats what I was hoping to hear. I don't mind spending the $$ on a new turbo but to spend another 1.5-2k for a PFC + tune is another big step.

Does anybody know how different the Stagea ECU's are to an R34? SydneyKid? I believe you run these turbos both on a GTT an Stagea? Do either of them have engine management upgrades?

Edited July 30, 2006 by OnGsTa

[ish]

this is VL rb30 talk so you may want to dis-regard!

We had really good results with Stock Ecu and a t3 hiflow on Jon Keen's Dyno. It seemed to learn alot better than an AVO upgrade ecu that was designed for more power which actualy created knocking at a lower boost setting?

The stock Ecu more than covered the fuel pump and injector capacity and when it found its limit we added another cold start injector on a pressure switch for some nice power.

In the end it was running about 16 psi, hobb's triggered at about 14psi

for about 220rwkw. beutiful for no tunning.

The stock ECU will run out of scope and you will want more power but I found it wasent nececary until i got used to the new power anyway.

[Warpspeed]

WIthout an ECU upgrade

Its essentially pointless.

The stocker ECU will hit rich and retard in many places.

I doubt anyone is running an upgraded turbo on a stock ECU.

Very true and well said.

Start off with an aftermarket ECU and THEN decide on further upgrades.

[The Mafia]

Very true and well said.

Start off with an aftermarket ECU and THEN decide on further upgrades.

+1

[Faid]

Ok on the question of bigger turbo on a stock computer. I have a R33 GTR and i live in suriname (south america) yall probably never heard of my country. but my car is a total stocker im talking stock no exhaust, still use the airbox etc. but i am buying my parts piece by piece. allready have a HKS T04Z, a Exhaust manifold, 50mm HKS waste gate the exhaust im going to make localy, a fuel pressure regulator 600cc injectors (APEXi) fuel rail (APEXi). a bosch 044 fuel pump and fckin $600 in braiden hoses and fittings for trubo, fuel setup radiator etc. does anybody have advise on the ecu i should run, cuz nobody in my country has very much experience with standalone units. i myself am seeking advise evrywhere i can find. My goal is hitting 600-700 HP. and anyone with more advise on what i would be needing more, my budget for the coming race is about $40K. and i really could use some advise cuz there are some fast cars here but those dudes had people come over to tune their cars, and little me i dont have the connection for that

[paulr33]

do a search faid its been covered a lot, or even look into the rb26 turbo upgrade thread and look at what other people are using for their ecu's in gtr's. i would go with powerfc but if money is no problem go motec

[Warpspeed]

A power FC is the obvious choice. Motec or Autronic would be o/k too, but a lot more work to install, as the FC just plugs straight in.

Only thing with the TO4Z with the FC, means you will need to still keep using twin airflow meters feeding into the one turbo. But that is really no problem at all.

[R31Nismoid]

Alex - 200rwkw from a GCG is pointless and its only leaving OnGsTa with a warped sense that its appropriate and works when really, its not doing squat.

Why spend the money if you only going to have it sit there and run @ 200rwkw ?

The things are capable of around 50rwkw more. Should have just stuck with the stocker turbo and lived with around 160-180rwkw. $2000 for 20rwkw IMO is a waste

[Andi]

I guess you guys are right, I should get something like a PFC first before I go looking at upgrading turbos.

Edited July 30, 2006 by OnGsTa

[paulr33]

max power is one aspect of changing ecu's. you make any power you like on any ecu, it doesnt mean its going to perform well and drive wel. like ash said hitting r&r is pointless so best to avoid that like the plague. plus the car would drive 10 times better if its had its load points tuned correctly, be it piggyback, remap, stand alone. anything other than stock maps!!!

[wolverine]

ongsta save up for both, do it once and do it right.

[AlexCim]

Stageas and skylines are differnet because of one big thing, the automatic transmission and manual transmission.

I wish that a PFC could be used on automatic stagea but unfortunatly for me it cannot. I have to use piggy back ECUs to tune the fuel and ign, so therefore the reason that i mentioned the SAFC/DFA and ITC combo. The reason that i mentioned 200awkw was because unlike a PFC, using multiple piggy backs has lower limits than a single unit. Id have expected around 220awkw in the end with the piggy backs.

Now that I am going to be selling my RS4 and buying a 260RS, you guys are right and my plan has always been full exhaust and PFC first, then go from there as they are the biggest gains.

For me on my stagea, the turbo was bought because I didnt have the access to the SITC and I actually decided not to go any futher with the car just AFTER i installed the turbo while i was searching for an SITC.

Just for everyones information, even lacking the tune the GCG made the car much faster than the stocker turbo. The GCG pulled all the way to the red line where i was making peak power on the red line...

[paulr33]

you can always change the auto box

[Faid]

Ok the money is no option. but what i am reading on the forums is that the PFC just plugs in and i heard from sevaral people that the MOTEC requires a special harnass, special sensors. A friend of mine over here is running the M48 unit on his Nissan Pulsar GTiR and when he switched over to the MOTEC someone came over to set the car up for him. It took days just for the harnas. Isnt it possible that i buy the PFC Djetronic model to delete my MAF sensors and run a full MAP.

[R31Nismoid]

You said people over there have trouble with stand alone

So D-jetro or not, AFM/MAF you'll have issues eitherw way going by what you said.

As for the t04z an other stuff you need... budget around $10,000 for the rebuild

Soon as you get into the 300rwkw barrier your gonna bust a motor sooner or later