Commodore Is Not The Best Car Ever

[The Baron]

Hmmmmm

that profile certainly doesn't match what I saw....

Maybe it was a Statesman mule - it was Left Hand Drive after all - so it didn't have Holden insignia or name badge.

But trust me - it had a HUGE rear end.

The cabin section is all-Camry too, in my eyes. When I saw pics of the SS-V on Holden's web site, I almost mistook it for a Camry Sportivo. The C pillar and shutline on the trailing edge of the rear doors especially.

But the squared headlight and tail light arrays, and the slope of the front bonnet, from the side-on shot look like a BA Falcon's (which is more what I was focusing on since The Baron was talking about the front and rear overhangs).

If I took the detail out to leave just solid black and looked at it in silhouette, I would have issues separating the two.

[djr81]

Hmmm, maybe it is asking the question that can never be answered: Does my arse look fat in this?

[mad082]

i was going to try to find a pic of a lexus is200 and stick a mustang rear end on it (about a 2000 model mustang). it would've lloked a lot like the new commodore, but i couldn't find a good pic of each, and i got bored with looking.

[jake32]

good point...

or in fact 3/4 of the parts for the "Australian" VE commodore that come from Korea and other SE Asian parts suppliers I read somewhere that the new commodore is actually the "least australian" ever, in terms of parts that come from Australian suppliers

54% local content only ..down from 75% on previous model....good question is how much longer they can call it an australian car

[djr81]

If you ever want to amuse yourself at a car yard ask the dealer where the car inquestion is made. eg the Holden bloke where the Viva comes from, or the Ford bloke where the Focus is nailed together. Mostly they either don't know or are far too embarrassed to answer the question.

[The Baron]

That's global manufacturing for you - on the positive side there are plenty of Opel's that have Aussie made V6's in them in Germany.

If you ever want to amuse yourself at a car yard ask the dealer where the car inquestion is made. eg the Holden bloke where the Viva comes from, or the Ford bloke where the Focus is nailed together. Mostly they either don't know or are far too embarrassed to answer the question.

[Wink]

That's global manufacturing for you - on the positive side there are plenty of Opel's that have Aussie made V6's in them in Germany.

Not to mention the latest Alfa Romeo hatch.

[predator]

54% local content only ..down from 75% on previous model....good question is how much longer they can call it an australian car ohmy.gif

How do they define that exactly I wonder? That the part was thought of in australia? Or... I'm just being cynical.

[The_Paladin]

It was said before that commodores and falcon's are in a class of their own and that there's nothing to compaire them too. i'd definatly agree to that. i'd also like to add that australia is the only country with a car buying market and government that is ignorant/naive/stupid/tasteless/irresponsible (choose one) to invest so heavly in these cars. only america is in more denial about the current fuel crisis and overpopulation of cars. and even then, governments like the one in california have strict emission laws and hybrid quotas.

Family Sports Sedan. that just dosent mix (ok, family sedan works ). mix any combination of those words and it just dosent work............the closest thing to that working i guess would be BMW's sports sedans, but even then i was reading in the paper on the weekend that the previous gen 318i's could get beaten by toyota echo's. M5's etc are pretty much luxury limo's rather than sports cars........

It tries to do all and it fails in all. it lacks performance (mainly in the form of handling, but also size, ride, weight and looks) to be called a good sports car and it lacks the reliability and fuel efficiancy to be a good family car.

Real car companies know what they're aiming their cars to be. a Commodore tries to be a bit of everything and ends up being nothing. that is why it will ultimatly fail. if you want to drive fast, buy a sports car. if you want to move your family around buy a reliable family car. if you want to drive fast while moving your family around you are a dickhead who should never have gotten a licence in the first place

*end rant*

Edited August 9, 2006 by The_Paladin

[gtr660hp]

The benchmark for the VE was a 2000 528i-Holden bought one and wanted the VE to equal or better it in every way and they say they have done this...well done Holden you have engineered a car as good as the Germans did 6 years ago

[funkymonkey]

So at the end of the day, the VE and Falcon are on their own. Nothing out of Japan can really be compared to them because they are big ass V8 sedans but with a performance slant. Most (Japanese) car makers have the large V8 sedan as the top luxury model., or as in BMWs case, a V10 and an astronomical price tag.

F50 Cima is the car I'd be comparing to a VE... VK45DD makes 209kw

hmm actually.. the F50 cima would be the statesman equivalent, and the Y50 Fuga would be the regular commodore

[Busky2k]

The benchmark for the VE was a 2000 528i-Holden bought one and wanted the VE to equal or better it in every way and they say they have done this...well done Holden you have engineered a car as good as the Germans did 6 years ago

Least the BMW's looked better then I have to admit.

[Rezz]

F50 Cima is the car I'd be comparing to a VE... VK45DD makes 209kw

hmm actually.. the F50 cima would be the statesman equivalent, and the Y50 Fuga would be the regular commodore

Having not seen a VE yet funkey I wouldn't agree nor disagree with you... but going by past Commo's and the penchant for 'sportiness' the Fuga kinda just sort of seems like the right competitor. The Cima probably tops the Caprice for class though.

[monaroCountry]

The benchmark for the VE was a 2000 528i-Holden bought one and wanted the VE to equal or better it in every way and they say they have done this...well done Holden you have engineered a car as good as the Germans did 6 years ago pinch.gif

Can’t really benchmark a car that doesn’t even exists, can you? Holden benchmarked a 2000 BMW 5series because VE design started at around 1999. Holden have no doubt improved on their initial design.

I actually had a look at the VE yesterday and compared the car to current BMW's (across the street). Both had very similar lines. One area that impressed me with both are their very very short front overhangs - which is great for handling. The 3 series had a slightly shorter overhang, followed by the commodore and then the 5 series.

3

VE

5

Another interesting thing I noticed with the VE was its chameleon like appearance. When viewed from afar the car look small (medium sized), up close the car shows its muscular appearance. Comparing this with BMW again (hey they were the closest dealership….lazy bugger like myself cant be bother walking) the VE hides its shape better. The BMW’s look flatter but wider and bigger whereas the commodore looks small (but in reality is a wider car).

Looking inside the BMW’s look luxurious with little touches that the run of the mill (SS) doesn’t have – hopefully Holden addresses this in their V offerings. The BMW however looks cramped and not as comfortable as the SS.

Also does anyone know the weight distribution (F:R) of the 5 series and 3 series. I know that the VE has 50:50 weight distribution.

[monaroCountry]

Basic? Holden's Alloytech is only just catching up to the RB.

Slap a Holden badge on a bunch of Lada's and I bet motor and drive etc will re-commence the same sort of orgies that have already begun stating how it's a revolutionary vehicle. Point is they always fail to recognise The technology's 10 years old.

The Alloytech is actually a great engine, although the alloytech in the VZ was garbage. Holden for some reason didn’t get the potential and also the smoothness out of the VZ alloytech. This detuned (or un tuned) Aussie donk looked pathetic, especially when compared with the smooth and refined alloytech (HFV6) found in Cadillac’s V6 offerings. IMO holden done this for marketing reason – so they could incrementally improve refinement and power every year, like what they done to the LS1.

To support my argument that the alloytech isn’t a backward engine……..

Have a look at SAAB and Alfa Romeo’s V6 engines. Both praised as great and refined….. both sourced from Holden. The main difference is their displacement, 2.8 and 3.2, compared with Holden’s 3.6L.

Most technology advancement on the VE commodore is under the skin. Here are some examples:

-Zeta platform (often called GM’s Global RWD Architecture) that will be the basis for around 1 million GM vehicles worldwide and (should be) a great $$$$$ earner for Holden.

-Neat thing about zeta is its flexibility and its rigidity (rated for 400kw). Notice the VE’s doesn’t use strut braces in their 270kw V8’s.

-Front end comes as one module = easy to change front design, easy/faster/cheaper to manufacture, and cheaper repairs for front end bingles.

-Holden designed/patented 4.5 link rears and Holden designed front suspension. This setup is very compact.

-Magnaride suspension (for HSV) models as used by Ferrari, corvette, CTS-V’s and AudiTT’s.

-several other advances that I cant be bothered going into (got to go home you know ).

Have a look at the GoAuto link below.

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf...A2571CA000A24B4

[monaroCountry]

and holden spent millions of dollars designing the interior...... must cost a lot to walk into a ford dealership and take a photo of a BA falcon interior then put holden badges on it.

Interior looks BMW (not the current one). Ive got a pic of this, need to find it .

[Wink]

New HSV

[Bliksem]

Commodore Is Not The Best Car Ever

Yes it is, Holden said so. So did almost every Magazine and newspaper. No one has owned one long enough to really tell just how good they are, but if the newspapers and magazine reviewers say they are then of course it's the best car ever.

Yesterday at work I asked the dole bludger who lives next to the industrial estate at work. He doesnt own a driveable car but has a few old kingswood's and early model commodore bodys lying on his front lawn. His response to me was that commodores have always been the best car ever made and the VE won't be the last, shortly afterwards he greened out and spilt half a toohey's new tinny all over himself.

Short answer is, of course the VE commodore is the best car ever. Everywhere I see the new Commodore mentioned seems to have flowery meadows and rainbow skies, and rivers made of chocolate, where the children dance and laugh and play with gumdrop smiles.

[Chris Rogers]

well I pulled one apart today and I'm not overly impressed with it. (was an SS) too plastic feeling for what is supposed to be a 80K car. most of the car is held on with plastic snaps that seem to disappear very easily.

forget about doing the audio- the car will not run without the audio system intact - LITERALLY!

(give me time...)

it will be interesting what the aftermarket does with it.

[thorpe84]

wow that picture of the hsv with the bodykit looks like an older tickford style from the te50 or whatever the hell it was called

i hate holdens...they would look SOOOO much better if the badge was a chev =)