Commodore Is Not The Best Car Ever

[Bliksem]

It was eventually decided that the new formula would revolve around the Holden Commodore

and the Ford Falcon. At the time Australia lacked the technology to develop 2 litre engines

like those used in the British Touring Car Championship, and it was decided that turbos were

too costly for many teams to run. Both the Sierra RS500 and Skyline GT-R were costing

around AU$500,000 for a competitive car. That kind of cost was well beyond most of the

privateer teams. The v8 was the cheapest option to develop and race in Australia.

Holden and Ford took the unprecedented step of releasing a joint letter to CAMS during

Bathurst – telling them to get their act together and set the rules for 1993, or Holden and Ford

would consider other forms of racing (NASCAR / AUSCAR)

Just checked the book, I was sorta wrong before ToF sounds like it was a bit of both

[ish]

Ha ha ToF. Costing too much for whom...? Everyone needs a plausible excuse I suppose. its just a belief i have i impose on other's

It looks a little to convenient for Holden and Ford for my liking.

Who cares anyway commodores are primitive bombs full stop that Thrive on marketing like the Article this Thread is about...

heres one for ya ?

Imagine a VX or BF trying to beat a R34 around Bathurst, it just wouldnt happen lolol

[ish]

and i am OLD i was there

[xRHETTx]

One of the big issues with the new VE Commodore is that it needs to sell well to save the local car manufacturing industry.

If it doesn't sell, it will most probably mean the end of GM/Holden car production in Australia, and may even wipe Ford and Toyota out as well, not to mention all the little manufacturers of car parts in Australia.

So really the car industry (including Wheels/Drive etc) is just acting in its best interest by over-rating the new commodore (in some peoples opinion).

I mean I'm no fan of the new commodore but i can see what will happen if car production stops in Aus, tens of thousands of people will be out of work and all cars will be imported from overseas.

[mad082]

Imagine a VX or BF trying to beat a R34 around Bathurst, it just wouldnt happen lolol

what model are we talking? if you are comparing a r34 gt-t or gtr against a basic falcon then thats not really fair. if you compare a stock gt-t against a stock xr6 turbo, then there wouldn't be much in it. same as if you compared a natro r34 against a basic falcon or commodore.

Edited August 3, 2006 by mad082

[bnr#@]

How about a ZANAVI 34 from jgtc against a V8 supercar?

[djr81]

I think everyone is getting a bit carried away here, or atleast losing sight of what the different cars mean in the different markets. A few points come to mind:

1. They used to make Nissan Skylines in Australia. Nissan Australia basically went belly up because too few people wanted them.

2. We tend to view the Skyline range as containing only the GT-T's & GT-R's. There are much more pedestrian versions that make for a better comparison with a povvo pack Commode.

3. You have to give credit to the local stuff for their fitness for purpose. They are essentially a cheap, large car the likes of which no other country makes. OK, they aren't BMW's, or Lexus', but do you really expect that for $35k?

4. Every Foulcan/Commode model released since the VB/XD has been a make or break model. Hell Holden went within $40 million dollars of packing up in 1986 when the VN was authorised for development. If you read any industry analysis written by an overseas journalist anytime in the last twenty years they will have essentially written off the Australian car industry. That we have one at all is cause for celebration, no bitching. Just think what happened to the UK car industry....

For the record I own both a GT-R & a daily driver AU Foulcan. I know which I choose when I have a 1000km trip to do & I know which I choose when I want to go the the track.

[predator]

of course it's the best car ever, I read it in the paper...

if your don't believe so you're UNAUSTRALIAN!!!!

But seriously, let them go for it if you ask me. It keeps a few people in jobs, who might otherwise be out of work. Keeps marketing companies getting richer. Keeps television networks in business via television advertising, etc. It's still good for the country.

[Bliksem]

3. You have to give credit to the local stuff for their fitness for purpose. They are essentially a cheap, large car the likes of which no other country makes. OK, they aren't BMW's, or Lexus', but do you really expect that for $35k?

Read my post earlier. BMW's are only expensive because of the gov't tax put on them. Go to Germany and you'll see that they are the equivelant to Holden and Ford Australia.

[predator]

call me silly, however I believe the cars somehow have to get from Germany to Australia - but yes, they do get slapped with extra tax.

[thorpe84]

if we are comparing holdens to skylines then f**k yas all

i would rather have a mazda 3 turbo for a few grand more, it would be more fun to drive.

oops i mean r34 turbo

i think holden havent done anything to special with this new hunk of shit they have made, they spent over 1 billion dollars, f**k i dont even know how to write 1 billion 1000000000000000000000000000000 lol

anyway its a mix of a ba, 380 and there old holden, nothing special really

interior is ok i guess but f**k nothin to sprog your pants about. i would rather have a ford if i was in that kind of market

but does anyone know how many kw the gts hsv will have?

i wonder what the 2007 ford will look like? i think it will rip this pile of shizzle apart =)

[craig V8 taffe]

Read my post earlier. BMW's are only expensive because of the gov't tax put on them. Go to Germany and you'll see that they are the equivelant to Holden and Ford Australia.

Exactly, the GOVT puts a huge tax on these "luxury" vehicles to try and keep the Aust car industry ticking along. What they don't realise is that economically its very bad to keep inefficient industries floating due to import taxes. In America, for example, you can buy a brand new 330i for about A$50,000. You can get a 325i for just under A$40,000. And I bet if they sold the 320i there (they don't becuase yanks don't want 4cyl) it would be closer to A$30,000.

[32vspecII]

QUOTE(Sky is the Limit)

It was eventually decided that the new formula would revolve around the Holden Commodore

and the Ford Falcon. At the time Australia lacked the technology to develop 2 litre engines

like those used in the British Touring Car Championship, and it was decided that turbos were

too costly for many teams to run. Both the Sierra RS500 and Skyline GT-R were costing

around AU$500,000 for a competitive car. That kind of cost was well beyond most of the

privateer teams. The v8 was the cheapest option to develop and race in Australia.

Holden and Ford took the unprecedented step of releasing a joint letter to CAMS during

Bathurst – telling them to get their act together and set the rules for 1993, or Holden and Ford

would consider other forms of racing (NASCAR / AUSCAR)

Just checked the book, I was sorta wrong before ToF sounds like it was a bit of both

while cost was a factor , given the number of private entries running sierras at the time , it didnt seem they had much of a problem . Cost was really used as psudo justification . The main issue was the lack of competiveness of the domestic cars and growing lack of support for the formula from the mainstream australian public because of it.

[djr81]

Read my post earlier. BMW's are only expensive because of the gov't tax put on them. Go to Germany and you'll see that they are the equivelant to Holden and Ford Australia.

Import duty on cars is now at 10% By historic & international standards this is quite low. Your LTD/Caprice/GT-P/HSV or whatever will still carry the same luxury car tax as an import - it is a tax on the car which is not based on its country of origin. So making the argument that a Holden and/or a Ford should be the same as a luxury German car is erroneous. It has been a very long time since Australian manufacturers have been able to hide behind trade barriers.

And, by the by, the proleteriat in Germany drive Fords/Opels/VW's, not BMW's and Mercedes Benz'

[predator]

Exactly, the GOVT puts a huge tax on these "luxury" vehicles to try and keep the Aust car industry ticking along.

The threshhold for this is $57,000.. meaning that if these BMW's came in into the country under these prices, the tax would not be applied. They don't.

The cost is in the shipping and extra cost to make the car applicable to the Australian market, which pushes it over $57k.

I am not sure if that is really applicable to this argument, that "we'd all be driving BMW's if holden didn't exist".

[djr81]

while cost was a factor , given the number of private entries running sierras at the time , it didnt seem they had much of a problem . Cost was really used as psudo justification . The main issue was the lack of competiveness of the domestic cars and growing lack of support for the formula from the mainstream australian public because of it.

My memory is a bit befuddled by old age & infirmary (& doubtless too much beer), but other than Kevin Waldock Playscape/Blast Dynamics example I can't really remember any privateer Sierra's that were around in 92 and campaigned on a regular basis. Glenn Seton & Dick Johnson had Ford support, as did Colin Bond. Tony Longhurst had switched back to M3's by 92. OF course Bob Forbes GIO GT-R was the sole privateer example to ever run in Aus.

People forget that during the mid nineties, thanks in part the the crap economy, top level motorsport in Australia nearly died. When teams like Gibson Motorsport & Glenn Seton Racing cannot find major sponsors then there are real problems. Not like now where 888 racing looks to have signed up Vodafone for $8million PER YEAR. Cripes.

As for the comment: Australia lacked the technology to develop the 2L engines. Eh? DJR at the time were making 2L turbo charged Sierra motors as good as anyone in the world. The MOTEC engine management system is after all Australian. Perkins Engineering didn't lack anything for developing motors. Bo Seton & Gibson Motorsport knew a little about engines too. There is nothing in a 2L rev & compression ratio restricted motor that is foreign to the best Australian engine builders. They tried to keep 2L formula alive in Australia. Not enough people cared. A shame, really.

Edited August 3, 2006 by djr81

[djr81]

call me silly, however I believe the cars somehow have to get from Germany to Australia - but yes, they do get slapped with extra tax.

Actually, Predator, there is a fair chance that the BMW you may covet is made in South Africa, or the US. Just like those shiney new Toyota Hilux's come out of Thailand....

[predator]

good point...

or in fact 3/4 of the parts for the "Australian" VE commodore that come from Korea and other SE Asian parts suppliers I read somewhere that the new commodore is actually the "least australian" ever, in terms of parts that come from Australian suppliers

[djr81]

good point...

or in fact 3/4 of the parts for the "Australian" VE commodore that come from Korea and other SE Asian parts suppliers I read somewhere that the new commodore is actually the "least" australian ever, in terms of parts that come from Australian suppliers

You are 100% right. What is killing the Australian component supply industry at the moment is cheap imports from China. How can they compete with companies that pay their workers stuff all an hour, don't expect to make a profit & benefit from a government mandated fixed & artificially low exchange rate?

To anyone who may get fired up by that, just go down to the local hardware shop & buy some cheap, shiney Chinese shit. It will make you feel better.

[mad082]

to give you a bit of an idea on the what the chinese get paid, i work in the bike industry (which 90% of comes from asia). the workers in most factories get paid about $70 a month, and pay $20 of that in rent. now think of the standard wage of an aussie. most people earn that before lunch time (some luck pricks have earn't that in the time it takes them to pick their nose).

the other thing that annoys me is companies that charge twice as much for the same item. i have seen it in both car and bike parts. some stuff even had the same packaging, with just a different brand sticker at the top, but was made in the same spot. the bike industry is full of this. only 4 bike companies make their own bikes, and the rest are made by those companies. and 1 parts company will make about 20 different brand parts (all the same part, just with different brand names on them, and about 50% difference in price).