Rb20 Turbo Upgrade

[ellie]

SK's got a group buy for high flows! $1750. Buy one and don't look back.

[Roy]

What coolers are you guys installing that hurts the boost threshold of the std engne/turbo???? Any pics of the installs? Somehting is very wrong based on the experience of me and a few friends who have gone from std IC to aftermarket FMIC

[WazR32GTSt]

ditto to roy..

i noticed no difference in lag with the FMIC

[Warpspeed]

With FMIC you will definitely gain because of the denser air. Ever notice how much better your turbo car runs on those cold crisp frosty nights ?

With FMIC you will lose response due to increased pipe volumes.

So what actually happens depends on the particular circumstances. My own car lost nothing in boost threshold or response with a big FMIC, but it now goes much better on really hot days, or after heat soaking in heavy traffic.

[cln]

after i put my fmic on i found the car to run hotter(yes hotter.. +10 deg) also i have no flutter not even on low boot. its asif the fmic did the opposite to what it was supposed to do. Car also idles lower now, hits friction point alot.

[Munna1]

If it were me id go for the 2530 good for 220rwkw or so with supporting mods

cheers

[Tebie]

when does boost come on with the 2530 turbos and when does it hit full boost?

and also for the 2535 turbo....

also, what would you say would be the right supporting modifications?

cause i got a full 3.5 exhaust, FMIC, GTR Injectors, 600hp Walhbro fuel pump, POD filter, and i will be installing the Z32 AFM just before i get my ecu re-mapped

[DC_GTST]

after i put my fmic on i found the car to run hotter(yes hotter.. +10 deg) also i have no flutter not even on low boot. its asif the fmic did the opposite to what it was supposed to do. Car also idles lower now, hits friction point alot.

I can back this up. Not on my car though. Depending where the piping is located. If it goes across the engine or around over the fan on the return from the intercooler and you don't have a heat shield over the turbo you will get higher temps. As the engine heat under the bonnet heats up the pipes (tried touching a mates once...was bloody hot!!!). The Stock SMIC don't go across the engine and thus don't accumulate the extra heat.

[Roy]

Huh? Not dismissing your experiences but how do you know the inlet tempos are increasing?

I had a guy telling me his inlet temps were sky high in traffic, he measured it with an accurate thermocouple...and needs to get his cooler pipes HPC coated (We just happened to be sitting in the reception of a ceramic coating place.)

Turns out he had his thermocouple on the external wall if the IC pipe! So that doesnt tell us diddly squate really. It measure the surface temperature of a pipe that is exposed to under bonnet temps. Its not measuring the air stream inside the pipe. Its ignoring the velocity of air in the pipe and the coolign effects through the wall thickness of the pipe with a hto air stream on the outside and a cooler air stream on on the inside.

So not saying anyone is wrong, just questioning what was actually observed.

I have a Delco air temp sesnor installed in my inelt pipe that is insulated from the surface temp of the pipe and is in turbulent air so i hope its pretty accurate. Thats the best place to install an inlet temp sensor to the best of my knowledge.

Last comment, have a look at those horrible press bend cooler pipes you get from the factory. Replacing them with nice mandrel bent pipes would help flow, reduce friction etc etc. Its a theoretical benefit that i doubt is really translated into the real world.

Ditto the slight increas in pipe volume from running a fmic. Its ok in theory, but in the real world??? Worst case im guessing the above two expamples cancel one another out and there is no difference to response.

UNLESS of course you have dodgy silicon joiners that cause a leak etc (or you had a leak before the instlal that was causign the high idle speed, so with the leak fixed it now idles lower????) Or you have gone crazy with the new piping layoutm, running it towards the firewall or somehting equally as extremem

And flutter???? What is a FMIC supposed to do????

[Warpspeed]

Inlet temps always will go sky high idling in traffic, no matter what you do. All the pipework under the bonnet heats up to perhaps around 80C, as it gets all the hot air straight off the radiator fan, exhaust manifold, etc.

As the engine is only idling the cold air coming out of the intercooler gets pretty hot when it passes along the inlet pipework, plenum, and inlet runners. So expect to see inlet temps of maybe around 50C.

I run an Autronic ECU that displays inlet temperatue after the throttle body, so I can see exactly what is happening.

But as soon as I hit the throttle, and get some significant airflow, that cold air goes straight down those hot pipes without picking up any significant extra temperature. The temperature comes down from around 50C to perhaps 4C above ambient within a couple of seconds.

[Roy]

Yeh ditto i have my temps logged by a data logger. And the temps do increase in traffic, but i see it less of a functon of your pipes but the fact that you get , like you said heat soak. Including in the intercooler.

Your example is goo, in that you have the probe installed where it can react quickly to changes in the air temp, Putting a sensor on the wall of a pipe will nto react quickly

Without a meaninful amount of air flowing through the front bar and intercooler the thing cant exchange heat with the inlet air. Air to air intercoolers dont work too well when there is not airflow thru them from driving down the street.

I still suspect you can bame a sensibly installed and good quality fmic for drops in response and increase in air temps

[Warpspeed]

Very true. The best way is to properly duct the intercooler air into the radiator, so that all the air pulled through the radiator by the ducted cooling fan first absolutely must go through the intercooler.

Idling, I can place my hand over the front of the intercooler and feel the air being drawn in.

I see too many intercoolers just stuck out in front, with no thought at all about how it is supposed to work at low vehicle speeds, or when idling in traffic.

[180bfj20det]

Upgrading to large cheap chinese cooler made my lag decrease. Why? Because old cooler was restrictive and poo.

I had a run in with a jap-tuned cefiro running a 2530. Was a fast beast. Lot less lag than I have but hey, Im not a street man, just the timeslip counts. The 2530 pulled very well from low revs. 2530 and youll be happy. GT28rs is the same thing mate (almost) except you can buy it brand new from garrett with warranty. hpinabox.com.

cheers

[Cubes]

Roy,

What FMIC you running?

I noticed a slight decrease in response when dropping the FMIC on to mine, I think its a poo fmic, bar/plate sperco core with the in/out located in the center of the core. It also runs poo 2.25" piping.

So its poo poo.

[180bfj20det]

Sorry to turn your thread into a poo thread. No pooing from now on please :sorcerer:

[Roy]

Mine is a HKS Type S, and to be hinest i think there are better intercoolers out there. The tubes seem very fine/thin...so it looks a bit restrictive. One day i will have a play with the location of the Map sensor onthe data logger and see if i can get an idea of pressure drop, i already have a new temp sensor for the turbo outlet now.

So when the cari back on the road i will be able to read thru the data logger the pre and post intercooler temp. To look at the core doesnt look great, but im hopigng looks are misleading. I noticed nothing but good things when i installed it ont he std turbo

[Warpspeed]

In some of the serious financial forums that I frequent, poo stand for "price of oil".

Quite funny to hear someone say poo us up a dollar forty today because of middle east tensions, hehehe.

On the same forum if you said FMIC, none of them would have a clue what you were talking about.

Edited August 12, 2006 by Warpspeed