Slide Vs Gcg Highflow

[otto]

Did that comparison between slide performance and the gcg highflow that SK was gonna do eventuate, and if so what were the results.

Thanks

[Cubes]

I really don't see the turbo's as being in the same category. Ones considerably cheaper than the other due to the bearing system used.

Maybe GCG do a bush highflow for a similiar price (1-1.1k) then it would be worth the comparison.

Its not like these bush highflows are new, they have been around for a long time and always been around the 1k mark and EVERY turbo shop does them.

Its just that slide has broke the 1k barrier and offering a very competitive price compared to other bush highflows.

Due to the nature of BB it offers slightly better spool and response but as with everything at a cost. Its up to you....

I'm still waiting for garrett to release their internal gate gt30 and gt35 turbine housing range. Thats the way I'm going and in no rush.

[otto]

i understand they are in a different class it just would have been nice to see the difference in the two and see how a 1k highflow compared to a 2k highflow anyhow was just chasing up to see if it went ahead or not

[EGA41T]

i'd be really interested to know the results too.

and im sure that everybody realises it is not an even comparison, but would just like to see the difference between a $1000 turbo and a $2000 turbo.

so...slide are you happy for the comparison to go ahead?

[aquariuz6]

I also would like to see the comparison between these turbos

I bought one of Slides turbo... just want to see how they compare against GCG's one

I'm still waiting for garrett to release their internal gate gt30 and gt35 turbine housing range. Thats the way I'm going and in no rush.

So when does these GT30 internally wastegate turbos come out?

Haven't they came out already?

Slide sells them on his website

http://www.slidingperformance.com/catalog/...products_id=275

Or are they different?

[paulr33]

what are you guys expecting in the comparison? its not like its going to make twice the amount of power

[Slide]

i'd be really interested to know the results too.

and im sure that everybody realises it is not an even comparison, but would just like to see the difference between a $1000 turbo and a $2000 turbo.

so...slide are you happy for the comparison to go ahead?

This was discussed with Gary and i were more than happy to send him a turbo to do back to back comparisons.

However Gary fell through and i heard no more.

A couple of facts to consider between the two.

Journal bearing vs ball bearing - this is a small factor when considering power at this level of turbocharging.

If comparing the VG30 housings with 45 v1-4 then this will not be a factor.

The OP6 VG30 housing will be used by myself and GCG's unit im sure.

The main things to consider are:

Compressor wheels used.

Turbine's used.

These will determin the main outcome for power made, boost efficiency and how quickly they come on boost.

Not knowing what GCG use and them not knowing what we use will obviously be a resulting factor in two different outcomes.

I am more then happy to provide a turbo for the back to back test but what is on most peoples mind is the main diffference being ball bearing and journal.

With different specifications between the two there will be no true outcome of which is greater with the Journal vs bb debate.

At the end of the day one will cost under $900 and the other around $1900?

If Gary would like to arrange to provide specifications of the GCG highflow i am more than happy to make a replica in journal bearing so we can really see the differences.

Two Garrett Part numbers is all i need.

[Abo Bob]

You will never get that info out of GCG. All I know is I think my GCG highflow has a GT30 core of some sort.

[otto]

i would like to see both turbos side by side no alterations i am interested in bot turbos and would just like to know how both perform in the state that they are sold (as thats what ide recieve if i baught one). a journal vs bb would also be an interesting comparo but i think garret have already done that, i just wanna see what i get for my money.

I also think the gains of bb are inversly proportional to the size of the turbo ie,bigger gains for bb with a very small turbo and the gains would get progressivly less as your turbo gets bigger because if the moment and enertia of the larger turbine, so just comaring only two turbos for the sake of compareing there bearings and then saying oh bb is this much better is pointless.

Edited August 11, 2006 by otto

[Cubes]

The other consideration would be boost run.

The slide turbo may work better at a higher or lower boost level, I think the important thing to test in this case would be to push the turbo to the very limit. Push as much boost through the gcg item as possible, then do the same with the slide unit.

[Munna1]

I am very keen to see this comparison. The two factors that will interest me the most will be the lag/response and the power curves.

We all know the GCG ballbearing will be more responsive but by how much? and what about overall power? I would asume it to be similar but I never like to asume, I like to see the evidence and im sure many of you do too.

Its not a question of which turbo is better but a question of is the GCG turbo worth $1000 more than Slides turbo.

If someone could do a comparion test on the same car that would be fantastic.

cheers

Edited August 11, 2006 by Munna1

[dangerous_daveo]

I think it just works out this way.

If you have $2k to spend on a highflow go GCG.

If you have $1k to spend on a highflow go for Slides.

If you dont really have a budget why are you looking at highflows.

[Busky2k]

I'm still waiting for garrett to release their internal gate gt30 and gt35 turbine housing range. Thats the way I'm going and in no rush.

You can already buy these with internal gates and have been around for quite a while now.

EDIT - I didnt see a few posts above someone had found an example.

Edited August 11, 2006 by Busky2k

[Cubes]

So this is the so called internal gate garrett have had on the drawing board for some time? Where's the GT35r .82 internal gate?

So not similiar to this solution then? I.e using the 5bolt t3 housing. http://www.atpturbo.com/root/releases/release103105.htm

and the GT35r.

http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant...tegory_Code=GRT

ATP have had these around for some time... But are the butchered turbine housings are cast to suit the application?

I'd like to see the wastegate setup on the slide turbo.

[Sydneykid]

This was discussed with Gary and i were more than happy to send him a turbo to do back to back comparisons.

However Gary fell through and i heard no more.

A couple of facts to consider between the two.

Journal bearing vs ball bearing - this is a small factor when considering power at this level of turbocharging.

If comparing the VG30 housings with 45 v1-4 then this will not be a factor.

The OP6 VG30 housing will be used by myself and GCG's unit im sure.

The main things to consider are:

Compressor wheels used.

Turbine's used.

These will determin the main outcome for power made, boost efficiency and how quickly they come on boost.

Not knowing what GCG use and them not knowing what we use will obviously be a resulting factor in two different outcomes.

I am more then happy to provide a turbo for the back to back test but what is on most peoples mind is the main diffference being ball bearing and journal.

With different specifications between the two there will be no true outcome of which is greater with the Journal vs bb debate.

At the end of the day one will cost under $900 and the other around $1900?

If Gary would like to arrange to provide specifications of the GCG highflow i am more than happy to make a replica in journal bearing so we can really see the differences.

Two Garrett Part numbers is all i need.

I didn't fall through anything. You wanted a perfect comparison that I can’t offer and you know that I can't.

Regardless, it would be a complete waste of time, I already know the result if we compare a ball bearing turbo with a plain bearing turbo with exactly the same compressor and turbine. Garrett published it years ago, it looks like this;

Before we go anywhere, let’s tidy up the price comparison first, because the truth is the GCG Ball Bearing high flow doesn’t cost $1K more. Closer to half that ie; $550.

Why?

Because for $1750 you get a straight bolt on GCG Ball Bearing High Flow turbo with ALL of the necessary gaskets washers, seals etc. You do not have to spend 1 cent more.

Compared to $890, no gaskets, no seals, a water supply that doesn’t fit, an oil supply that doesn’t fit etc etc. You are looking at another $300 or so in parts and modification labour.

So the comparison is more like $1200 versus $1750

Now we have to settle on the testing process, I wanted to simply run up the one turbo (I don’t care which one goes first) on the dyno and achieve a power figure at a predeterimed boost. Then swap it for the other turbo and run it up on the dyno. No tuning changes, just a straight this turbo made that power graph, versus the other turbo made this power graph.

If I get into individual tuning, then I leave myself open to favouritism claims. Not to mention who is going to pay for the whole day’s dyno time it would take to perfectly tune both turbos. Remember we are looking for response differences as well as average and max power differences. That means perfect tuning, twice, from 2,000 rpm to 7,500 rpm. That’s not a 5 minute requirement, multiplied by 2

The bottom line.

I am still up for it, send me an $890 turbo (plus all the bits necessary to fit it) with whatever specification you like and I will do the comparison. I already have a GCG Ball Bearing high flow that I bought and paid for myself, that I can use for the comparison.

In addition I am supplying the fitting labour, digital camera, photos, scanner, tuning labour and the dyno time.

Plus I will write the review and post it up on here.

Over to you for your contribution?

cheers

Edited August 11, 2006 by Sydneykid

[Slide]

I didn't fall through anything. You wanted a perfect comparison that I can’t offer and you know that I can't.

Regardless, it would be a complete waste of time, I already know the result if we compare a ball bearing turbo with a plain bearing turbo with exactly the same compressor and turbine. Garrett published it years ago, it looks like this;

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/up...3_124_17379.jpg

Before we go anywhere, let’s tidy up the price comparison first, because the truth is the GCG Ball Bearing high flow doesn’t cost $1K more. Closer to half that ie; $550.

Why?

Because for $1750 you get a straight bolt on GCG Ball Bearing High Flow turbo with ALL of the necessary gaskets washers, seals etc. You do not have to spend 1 cent more.

Now we have to settle on the testing process, I wanted to simply run up the one turbo (I don’t care which one goes first) on the dyno and achieve a power figure at a predeterimed boost. Then swap it for the other turbo and run it up on the dyno. No tuning changes, just a straight this turbo made that power graph, versus the other turbo made this power graph.

If I get into individual tuning, then I leave myself open to favouritism claims. Not to mention who is going to pay for the whole day’s dyno time it would take to perfectly tune both turbos. Remember we are looking for response differences as well as average and max power differences. That means perfect tuning, twice, from 2,000 rpm to 7,500 rpm. That’s not a 5 minute requirement, multiplied by 2

The bottom line.

I am still up for it, send me an $890 turbo (plus all the bits necessary to fit it) with whatever specification you like and I will do the comparison. I already have a GCG Ball Bearing high flow that I bought and paid for myself, that I can use for the comparison.

In addition I am supplying the fitting labour, digital camera, photos, scanner, tuning labour and the dyno time.

Plus I will write the review and post it up on here.

Over to you for your contribution?

cheers

So the comparison is more like $1200 versus $1750

Compared to $890, no gaskets, no seals, a water supply that doesn’t fit, an oil supply that doesn’t fit etc etc. You are looking at another $300 or so in parts and modification labour.

I dont think so.

2 Banjo bolts for oil feed need to be drilled and the restrictor removed from the oil line.

Cost is nothing if they are sent to us and less then $20 if an engineer does them.

Doesnt sound hard or THAT costly to me.

Also when we can provide banjo bolts we do otherwise the standard bolts on the current turbo can be modified and used as per the instructions provided with the turbo's.

Now assuming that you have no association with GCG i really dont know what gain you will have from this.

So i will put the offer to you also.

If you would like to send through your GCG turbo to us then we will back to back test it on a car up here.

There is something about it that doesnt sound right.

Instead of asking me for a contribution why not ask for payment?

Im happy to send you a turbo, pay for your time and have you send the turbo back.

I feel a little more security this way knowing that GCG wont be finding out the internal specifications of the turbo.

From the results we have seen so far any publicity has been good publicity.

So if you would like to pm me or even calll me on my number listed below to discuss this like last time then im more than happy to.

[dangerous_daveo]

SK learns, so thats what he has to gain.

[R31Nismoid]

You can already buy these with internal gates and have been around for quite a while now.

EDIT - I didnt see a few posts above someone had found an example.

nooo... most certainly they have not been around.

The butcher versions as Cubes said have been around, not the Garrett Int-gated rear housings that have been long awaited by many for most of this year, and the ass end of last year

[skylinecouple]

I think the whole idea of using the gcg is to be able to take it home and bolt it up, no drilling this or changing that.When I need my car on the road the next day believe me, that means more to me than a hand full of power.Otherwise I would simply take the car off the road for a week and go bigger with custom everything.

[Busky2k]

So this is the so called internal gate garrett have had on the drawing board for some time? Where's the GT35r .82 internal gate?

So not similiar to this solution then? I.e using the 5bolt t3 housing.

Well I assumed that if you can use the 5 bolt T3 housing, and then use this wastegate setup;

http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant...tegory_Code=WGT

Then you got an internally gated turbo. Of course the housing is not the best. I know you guys are waiting for the true GT housing (only the non wastegate ones that you see eg 3" 4 bolt and the V-Band).

Apparently the GT housings are worlds better than the 4 or 5 bolt T3 non GT housings so I bet its worth the wait for sure.