Dyno Dynamics Shoot Out Mode

[MR331307]

Hello to everyone

I just wanna start with A DYNO IS A TUNING TOOL and should be respected as that.If you want to test your car to see what power its putting down Hit the Track and get a MPH

i just wanna explain how shootout mode works from my KNOWLEDGE

Shootout mode was designed by dyno dynamics around 3 years ago.It was designed to remove all VARIABLES and help dyno tuners in setting up vehicles.By variables i mean RAMP RATES.Now when tuning a car you must use a correct ramp rate on it.If the wrong rate is used the car will be out of tune.

Dyno dynamics have got a couple modes setup when using shootout

SHOOT 4 (NA 4 Cylinder)

SHOOT 6 (NA 6 Cylinder)

SHOOT 8 (NA 8 Cylinder)

SHOOT 4F (TURBO,NOS,SUPERCHARGED 4 Cylinder)

SHOOT 6F (TURBO,NOS,SUPERCHARGED 6 Cylinder)

SHOOT 8F (TURBO,NOS,SUPERCHARGED 8 Cylinder)

and modes for Rotarys

Im unsure what each ramp rate is set at but have found if tuning on a low set mode will have the car out of tune and reading more HP then its actually got due to the ramp being lighter spining easier.If you use a Higher set mode such as shoot 8f the car will have too much load on it and read less hp.

The mode also has inputs such as DAY TEMP,HUMIDITY,BARAMETRIC PRESSURE,AIR TEMP.When you enter the DAY TEMP,HUMIDITY & BARAMETRIC PRESSURE it shows these on the CORRECTIONS TABLE on the Printout.This is used when comparing dyno to dyno to find out why your car made less or more hp.The AIR TEMP is Measured from a Sensor which should be located near the POD FILTER.A good inlet temp should be no more then 40 Degrees.If hottier try to get more cold air there(COLD AIR DUCTING,POD ENCLOSURE ETC).These temperatures go into a Calculator which also sets a correction rate to work out HP on the dyno.A normal correction rate is seen by a dyno operator and should be around .900-1.00 any more and it will read more hp then you actually got.The ways to cheat on shootout is running the inlet temp hottier (Near or on the exhaust)which then you will see a correction rate of around 1.1 1.2 which reads alot more then your making.

The other inputs you have are

What gear your doing the run in and tyre pressures.The usually NAME,CAR,PLATE is on there as well and this is done during the setup of the run.

Make sure your dyno tuner has a WEATHER STATION in the dyno room if you want a correct HP run and watch the inlet air temps etc.

During the run the car should be in a gear closest to 1.1 ratio.If you hit the speed cut which normally you wont on a skyline you can drop down a gear to 3rd.The load and hp figures are the same and dont vary much maybe on 5 -10hp.

The dyno dynamics dynos also have state of the art Rollers which help grab the tyre as its spinning and most dynos also run a traction CONTROL bar which you find the Straps located on.What happens here is as the car rolls onto the front roller (which its supposed to do) it pulls the car down on the roller reducing it from spinning.I have had mark hayes on the dyno and managed to get 1172 RWHP or so out of his car on the rollers which traction problems.

If you do have traction problems you should check Tyre Pressures,Tyre Treads etc

Tell me your opinions on the mode and what experiences you have had or what you know

thanks

[Busky2k]

Interesting facts there.

What I wish is if Dyno Dynamics actually state the correction being applied on the printout. I know that other dynos such as DynoJet state say the correction is eg 10% so we can see just if figures are kinda fudged.

[MR331307]

Yeah i know they should

but it doesnt mean anything on the printout.The way to see if somethings wrong is checking the temps etc like i said.The correction rate is something for the dyno itself to use or the tuner.When you are off shootout mode the ATMOS2 i think its called which is the Correction rate can be manually set to whateva you want

while in shootout this is locked and cannot be changed.

any dyno run off shootout mode can have all these little things adjusted giving false readings.

but once again TUNING TOOL

[MerlinTheHapyPig]

was playing around with a brand new dyno dynamics unit which a friend just installed the other day at his workshop. I'm still trying to get my head around how to use the damn thing.

I'd be interested in joining this discussion once i figure out what's actually going on. It's not the most user-friendly setup, and i've gotten the hang of it now, but it was quite baffling (given they give you no instruction manual and i had misplaced the instructional dvd). The computer software also doesn't have much in the way of help either.

Are the ramp rates set based on what shotout mode you are in (e.g 4cyl, 4F, 6F etc)?. I've also noticed the hand controller has "RAMP UP" and "RAMP DOWN", is this to set them manually?

I was under the impression that the weather station (air temp, humidity etc.) settings were all that really affected the correction values... anyway, we don't have the weather station in yet. I did notice my car read 130kw when it usually pulls 150-160 on most dyno's. So it could be due to the weather station correction being wrong

[Adriano]

i agree with most of this, except "Now when tuning a car you must use a correct ramp rate on it.If the wrong rate is used the car will be out of tune."Running in the wrong mode(eg Shoot 6F) in a 4 cyl only changes the ramp rate. On the road, the engine sees 1000's of different ramp rates(different gears and hills)so a good tune with a good ems, will work in any mode. You need to remember that they are a diagnostic tuning tool, and DD's have tried to compensate for the variables to provide a level playing field in different conditions. We ran the two dynos side by side at powercruise, and took a car off one and put it on the other, and.5hp difference.

[MR331307]

i agree with most of this, except "Now when tuning a car you must use a correct ramp rate on it.If the wrong rate is used the car will be out of tune."Running in the wrong mode(eg Shoot 6F) in a 4 cyl only changes the ramp rate. On the road, the engine sees 1000's of different ramp rates(different gears and hills)so a good tune with a good ems, will work in any mode. You need to remember that they are a diagnostic tuning tool, and DD's have tried to compensate for the variables to provide a level playing field in different conditions. We ran the two dynos side by side at powercruise, and took a car off one and put it on the other, and.5hp difference.

Maybe the air temps changed

i tune on these dynos and when i go for a run on the street and log it i find the air fuels to sit perfect

[rob82]

Interesting facts there.

What I wish is if Dyno Dynamics actually state the correction being applied on the printout. I know that other dynos such as DynoJet state say the correction is eg 10% so we can see just if figures are kinda fudged.

At the bottom of the shootout mode dyno printout it shows the corrections along with all the other input data.

Once in shootout mode the ramp rate is fixed so in ordre to do a ramp you click up the load button and then ramp up. IN non shootout you can change the ramp rate via the dial on the hand controller dont remember the correlation between the number and the ramp rate but the bigger the number the faster the ramp.

I never tune in shootout as I find the ramp rates are often too fast for most cars - remember with good managment only your timing should be affected by ramp rates.

[Busky2k]

^^ I cant actually find the 'correction factor' at the bottom of the sheet. Just the environmental data + ramp rate etc...

[T04GTR]

if it goes good. who cares.

also wheelspin is not mentioned in your list.

having my rear tyres de-laminate on the unigroup dyno last night from wheelspin and old tyres :

[T04GTR]

if you want good (fake) readings just put the airtemp sensor infront of the radiator so it gets hot air. also adjust the atmospheric corection for say.. 2km high

easy 1000hp atw

[paulr33]

IT = inlet temperature

RT = reference temperature

RH = reference humidity

RP = reference pressure

TN = inertia setting

RR = ramp angle

PL = power loading

CK = check reference

[siddr20]

Well i just had my car on the dyno dynamics dyno last night.

full exhaust (spilt dump/front pipe as well as spilt catback), pod, boost at 0.8 bar on shoot out mode and acheived 183kw.

Now many people i have spoken to say thats not possible and its just a happy dyno, then i guess maybe, maybe not.

But like you said to get correct figure hit the track and get a proper readout of times..

So now my question is, in shoot out mode, does it tend to be happy with figures?

Other cars last night didnt have happy dyno figures. (silvansw event at unigroup)

your thoughts?

Edited August 13, 2006 by siddr20

[MR331307]

TUNING TOOLLLLLLLLL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cubes]

If you use a Higher set mode such as shoot 8f the car will have too much load on it and read less hp.

Are you sure thats correct and not the other way around?

I've seen exactly the opposite.

Higher power readings in a greater shootout mode. A dyno day last year this was also shown when a car ran up on Shoot6 mode then ran up on shoot8f mode and made another 30rwkw. Nothing changed no fiddlings nothing.

I've too seen this with my car the last time it hit the dyno, all though the difference wasn't as great as 30rwkw.

I believe there was also an article on the ford turbo forums showing the same that I have seen.

[180bfj20det]

Isnt there just a setting where you can compare directly an 8 to a turbo 4 without changing any setting? If not why?

Is ramp rate the "resistance" created by the dyno in order to read torque? If so, if you have a 600nm 4 cylinder and 600nm v8, the shouldnt both use the same ramp rate?

Ideally, the same ramp rate should be used to accurately compare cars right?

MR331037, i agree the dyno is a tuning tool. But there is no better back to back comparison bt different cars comparing power than using a dyno...the track offers too many variables such as traction etc.

Im just wondering, on a dyno day, is the shootout mode just set on the one mode or changed for each type of car?

[MR331307]

Isnt there just a setting where you can compare directly an 8 to a turbo 4 without changing any setting? If not why?

Is ramp rate the "resistance" created by the dyno in order to read torque? If so, if you have a 600nm 4 cylinder and 600nm v8, the shouldnt both use the same ramp rate?

Ideally, the same ramp rate should be used to accurately compare cars right?

MR331037, i agree the dyno is a tuning tool. But there is no better back to back comparison bt different cars comparing power than using a dyno...the track offers too many variables such as traction etc.

Im just wondering, on a dyno day, is the shootout mode just set on the one mode or changed for each type of car?

On a dyno day if there are 10 RB25DET skylines they all run off SHOOT 6F

if there is a V8 turbo car there then it runs shoot 8F.The ramp rate doesnt change Dramatically,Just minor to suit the TORQUE Of the V8

You gotta remember that you cannot run the same load on a V8 as to a 4 cylinder as it will be to much load or not enough if opposite

(Is ramp rate the "resistance" created by the dyno in order to read torque? If so, if you have a 600nm 4 cylinder and 600nm v8, the shouldnt both use the same ramp rate?)

RAMP RATE = LOAD ON rear wheels

And like i said if your cars spinning its either not strapped right or bold tyres or somethings seriously wrong

i have had my skyline on there constantly one after each other and never broke traction on a dyno dynamics dyno.

I think the only way to break traction on Power is if your car is making over 3300 foot pounds of torque.You figure this out doing a TRACTION TEST ON a dyno

and as for a higher mode reading more i dont think thats correct

Maybe the AIR TEMPS once again have changed.If you had the load of a v8 on a skyline would read less

[MR331307]

i like that quote you got there

heres something for ya

[Cubes]

hrmm.. well i'm soon to hit the dyno again soon so I'll grab a print out of back to back. I won't fiddle, there's nothing to gain by doing so.

[BHDave]

Sorry mate, but you lost all credibility and i stopped reading the second i read this,

"If you want to test your car to see what power its putting down Hit the Track and get a MPH"

I hate statements like this, have you considered: track preparation, driver experience, tyre choice, tyre pressure, temperature, altitude maybe? I know that 2 of the above are eliminated on a dyno and 2 are covered by corrections which to me means the score is currently at 4-0 with the dyno in the lead for accurately predicting power.....

[Robo's]

Even tyres make a difference to figures on a dyno. Running slicks on a dyno will produce a lower reading so balder the tyres the better.