Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

Had the local tyre shop remove my Falken Azenis tyre from my bent front wheel the other day... Only noticed when I got home that there was some pretty significant dammage to the sealing edge of the tyre, the worst being a tear along the inside edge of around 15 cm's!

I was watching them do it and it looked like they were having a bit of trouble trying to crack the bead, or what ever its called when the use the hydroic claw thingo. There was also some light gauging left on the rim band.

Their excuse is along the lines of "How do you know it wasn't like that beforehand" and

"The tyre was under sized for the rim" < WTF? Why did you touch it if you couldn't gaurentee the tyre wouldn't be damaged.

What do I do? Try come to a deal with the tyre shop where I end up with a matching pair of perfomance R18/235/40 tyres? Can't see that happening..

Office of fair trading?

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/130699-tyre-shop-munched-my-tyre/
Share on other sites

unfortunatley they are probably right! you can't prove that the tyre wasn't damaged when it was put on the rim, i have personally put cuts in beads of tyres attempting to get them on rims and they have still inflated and been fine, so unless you saw them damage it....

R18/40/235 stretched over a 10 inch rim. Tear runs along the inside of the bead. Also a small tear on the sealing edge around 1.5cm's.

If it was my mums Mirage I would have let it fly, but these tyres are big $$$ new, tread is around 60-70%

Sorry yeah no digicam atm..

Edited by Drift_Limo

I reckon a 235 on a 10" rim is pushing it a bit. 235s sit nicely on 8s, and should be OK on 9s, but 10s...

How do you know the damage to the rim didn't also damage the tyre?

"The tyre was under sized for the rim" < WTF? Why did you touch it if you couldn't gaurentee (guarantee!) the tyre wouldn't be damaged
Which did you want more - the rim fixed or the tyre undamaged?

your not actually sposed to put 235/40R18 on a 10" rim. anything they do cant be guaranteed, they should've told you this first. but i dont think theres anything you can do about it.

they may be able to put some bead sealer on the damaged area, but it depends on how bad the damage is

I reckon a 235 on a 10" rim is pushing it a bit. 235s sit nicely on 8s, and should be OK on 9s, but 10s...

The right hand front holds pressure fine, as do the rears running 245/40's on 11's

How do you know the damage to the rim didn't also damage the tyre?

15cm tear inside the bead is unlikely

Which did you want more - the rim fixed or the tyre undamaged?

Umm.. I would expect anyone earning money to work on any part of my car to not damage it :D Wouldn't you?

your not actually sposed to put 235/40R18 on a 10" rim. anything they do cant be guaranteed, they should've told you this first. but i dont think theres anything you can do about it.

they may be able to put some bead sealer on the damaged area, but it depends on how bad the damage is

Yeah this what I mean, there was no warning..

How good is this bead sealer stuff?

I didn't ask about whether the tyres held pressure or not; I was simply stating an opinion that I believed 235 tyres on a 10" rim was not an appropriate combination.

I did not ask about the likelihood of it having happened, I asked how you knew it didn't; and the answer is "you don't".

If what they are claiming is true, then no (reputable) tyre place would have even contemplated removing the tyre for fear of damaging it. In that case, you would be stuck with a tyre AND wheel that would have to be tossed. Which did you want more - the wheel fixed or the tyre undamaged?

I didn't ask about whether the tyres held pressure or not; I was simply stating an opinion that I believed 235 tyres on a 10" rim was not an appropriate combination.

In wich case your opinion means nothing to me..

I did not ask about the likelihood of it having happened, I asked how you knew it didn't; and the answer is "you don't".

Another unconstructive comment.. No I don't know, but judging by the trouble they had at cracking the bead, and the fact that they used the two different exuses, one being the tyre size as a fault. Wich brings us to your next point. You will find you are contridicting yourself somewhat, in that this tyre place is what you would call unreputable.

If what they are claiming is true, then no (reputable) tyre place would have even contemplated removing the tyre for fear of damaging it. In that case, you would be stuck with a tyre AND wheel that would have to be tossed. Which did you want more - the wheel fixed or the tyre undamaged?

the bead sealer (pretty much a glue) is very effective with smaller imperfections on the bead, weve used it a lot at my work (tyrepower). but for something 15cm long, im not sure... you could get another place to give it a go.

tell them that its only for track work though, cos they dont really like doin stuff like that.

i dont see how they would've had so much trouble breakin the bead though, ive got 235/40R18s on 10" rims and the bead is incredibly easy to break

In wich case your opinion means nothing to me..

Another unconstructive comment.. No I don't know, but judging by the trouble they had at cracking the bead, and the fact that they used the two different exuses, one being the tyre size as a fault. Wich brings us to your next point. You will find you are contridicting yourself somewhat, in that this tyre place is what you would call unreputable.

if his opinion means nothing to you why did you post this thread at all? just to let people know you have a case of the sads because some guy trying to work on your rim may (or may not) have damaged your half worn second hand tyre?

seriously, you are not going to get anything from the tyre shop. that is clear. just get over it. buy a new tyre and resolve yourself to never go back to that place again.

c'mon mate.

Umm.. I would expect anyone earning money to work on any part of my car to not damage it :) Wouldn't you?

Yeah I agree...

Yeah this what I mean, there was no warning..

How good is this bead sealer stuff?

No bead sealer will SUCCESFULLY fix a tear in a bead. and here in adelaide we refer to tyrepower as Captain Snooze, every tyre power store I contact or know of people going to the untrained owners and managers are always in a daze or even in some cases asleep (Hackham Store) for most of the day. But try bead sealer but to be honest silicon has better holding qualities than 99% of the bead sealers on the market. we normally only put them over patches from puncture repairs and also around beads on trailer rims when they just will not stop leaking cos of rust issues.

235's are a little small for a 9 inch rim they are mainly made for 7.5 - 8.5 inch rims, but they still go on 9" rims ok, and even if a tyre place did blame damage on the size of the tyre on a wider rim, wouldnt you assume that is the 235 is too small for the rim that it would then make it easier to take off the rim as it wouldnt need as much work to get off? Only my personal thought, but dont ask me, i only manage a tyre business and have been fitting tyres from 6x3 inch rims to 26x15 inch rims for the last 9 years.

a tear on the inside of the bead normally means that the tyre was pulled the wrong way when it was being taken off, or it was hooked on a sharp bit of the damaged rim, if the rim had no sharp bits on it, being a low profile tyre, and someone with little experiance in fitting such sizes, then it would make me believe that the person tried to remove the tyre incorrectly. as there is no other way to get a tear in the inside of the bead. cos damage mounting a tyre would be on the outside of the bead, due to the way that a tyre is fitted...

and yes the last comment posted by Beer Baron is correct, the likely hood of getting something from a reputable tyre company for damaging a tyre that is second hand on a damaged rim is very very small, if at most you may be lucky enough that they will do a better price on a new one for you.. it is a very hard thing to prove that they did damage it, and that someone else that may or may not of taken the tyre off to repair it in the past could of damaged it. you cannot prove it.. but goodluck and i hope my opinion did answer some of your questions.

Edited by DaFuca

sorry dude, but 235 is way too big for a 7" rim. it can be done, but really shouldnt be. according to the tyre manufacturers, 235s should go on an 8.5" rim, and they will then sit dead flush with the rim. 235 on a 9 is just a tiny bit stretched.

drift limo: are your rims upside-down rims? if they are, beads get ripped tryin to strip tyres off when theyre not mounted on the machine upside down.

just a thought

Does the tyre leak now? I would get the rim fixed or replaced and then see if you can find someone to fit the tyre to the rim, and check if it holds air, you may be freaking out for nothing.

a tear on the inside of the bead normally doesnt mean the end of the world for tyres, normally just makes them more interesting to get seated on the bead of the rim.

I'd find out if it is stuffed or not before you worry about getting another tyre.

Thanks heaps for the input fella's... I'm actually more worried about the 1.5cm tear wich looks to be on the sealing point of the bead..

Update with pics hopefully when I get the rim back in a week or so..

btw just been looking on the Falken site and the approved rim width for Azenis st115 235/40R18 is 8.0-9.5

btw just been looking on the Falken site and the approved rim width for Azenis st115 235/40R18 is 8.0-9.5

yeah that sounds about right. but 10 inch is still bigger than 9.5 inch. I'm running 235 on a 9 inch and even they look too small for the rim.

235/45 on 17x9

IMG_0368.jpg

215/45 on 17x9

IMG_0366.jpg

IMG_0365.jpg

If I ran a tyre shop I would put 235s on 9" because they bead easily and they come off sort of easily.

Personally I run 215 because they look better and allow me to have the wheels sticking out where

I like them, a matter of taste more than anything. But you can't get the wheels sitting nicely with some

tyres "correctly" bulging over the sides.

flush.jpg

Not my car, but what I consider "nice"...

wouldnt you assume that is the 235 is too small for the rim that it would then make it easier to take off the rim as it wouldnt need as much work to get off?

Spot on, I run 215 on 9" and they usually come off easily!

I suspect they will have torn the bead from the tyre slipping over the damaged section

of wheel when they were unmounting it.

Tyre machines are horrible things! Levers, old skool is the way to go!

http://www.fulllock.com/Laurence/mount_tyre.wmv

This was the first time I have done it with levers so don't be too hard on my technique!

Edited by Laurence

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • Thanks, I removed the fuse and the relay from the car and made my own circuit with them to test them with a test bulb.  I will look for the wiring diagram and go from there.
    • Jdm DC2R is also nice for a FF car compared to the regular hatches of the time.
    • Now that the break-in period for both clutch and transmission is nearly over I'd like to give some tips before I forget about everything that happened, also for anyone searching up how to do this job in the future: You will need at least 6 ton jack stands at full extension. I would go as far as to say maybe consider 12 ton jack stands because the height of the transmission + the Harbor Freight hydraulic platform-style transmission jack was enough that it was an absolute PITA getting the transmission out from under the car and back in. The top edge of the bellhousing wants to contact the subframe and oil pan and if you're doing this on the floor forget about trying to lift this transmission off the ground and onto a transmission jack from under the car. Also do not try to use a scissor jack transmission lift. You have to rotate the damn thing in-place on the transmission jack which is hard enough with an adjustable platform and a transmission cradle that will mostly keep the transmission from rolling off the jack but on a scissor lift with a tiny non-adjustable platform? Forget it. Use penetrating oil on the driveshaft bolts. I highly recommend getting a thin 6 point combination (box end + open end) wrench for both the rear driveshaft and front driveshaft and a wrench extension. These bolts are on tight with very little space to work with and those two things together made a massive difference. Even a high torque impact wrench is just the wrong tool for the job here and didn't do what I needed it to do. If your starter bolts aren't seized in place for whatever reason you can in fact snake in a 3/8 inch ratchet + 6 point standard chrome socket up in there and "just" remove the bolts for the starter. Or at least I could. It is entirely by feel, you can barely fit it in, you can barely turn the stupid ratchet, but it is possible. Pull the front pipe/downpipe before you attempt to remove the transmission. In theory you don't have to, in practice just do it.  When pulling the transmission on the way out you don't have to undo all the bolts holding the rear driveshaft to the chassis like the center support bearing and the rear tunnel reinforcement bar but putting the transmission back in I highly recommend doing this because it will let you raise the transmission without constantly dealing with the driveshaft interfering in one way or another. I undid the bottom of the engine mount but I honestly don't know that it helped anything. If you do this make sure you put a towel on the back of the valve cover to keep the engine from smashing all the pipes on the firewall. Once the transmission has been pulled back far enough to clear the dowels you need to twist it in place clockwise if you're sitting behind the transmission. This will rotate the starter down towards the ground. The starter bump seems like it might clear if you twist the transmission the other way but it definitely won't. I have scraped the shit out of my transmission tunnel trying so learn from my mistake. You will need a center punch and an appropriate size drill bit and screw to pull the rear main seal. Then use vice grips and preferably a slide hammer attachment for those vice grips to yank the seal out. Do not let the drill or screw contact any part of the crank and clean the engine carefully after removing the seal to avoid getting metal fragments into the engine. I used a Slide Hammer and Bearing Puller Set, 5 Piece from Harbor Freight to pull the old pilot bearing. The "wet paper towel" trick sucked and just got dirty clutch water everywhere. Buy the tool or borrow it from a friend and save yourself the pain. It comes right out. Mine was very worn compared to the new one and it was starting to show cracks. Soak it in engine oil for a day in case yours has lost all of the oil to the plastic bag it comes in. You may be tempted to get the Nismo aftermarket pilot bearing but local mechanics have told me that they fail prematurely and if they do fail they do far more damage than a failed OEM pilot bushing. I mentioned this before but the Super Coppermix Twin clutch friction disks are in fact directional. The subtle coning of the fingers in both cases should be facing towards the center of the hub. So the coning on the rearmost disk closest to the pressure plate should go towards the engine, and the one closest to the flywheel should be flipped the other way. Otherwise when you torque down the pressure plate it will be warped and if you attempt to drive it like this it will make a very nasty grinding noise. Also, there is in fact an orientation to the washers for the pressure plate if you don't want to damage the anodizing. Rounded side of the washer faces the pressure plate. The flat side faces the bolt head. Pulling the transmission from the transfer case you need to be extremely careful with the shift cover plate. This part is discontinued. Try your best to avoid damaging the mating surfaces or breaking the pry points. I used a dead blow rubber hammer after removing the bolts to smack it sideways to slide it off the RTV the previous mechanic applied. I recommend using gasket dressing on the OEM paper gasket to try and keep the ATF from leaking out of that surface which seems to be a perpetual problem. Undoing the shifter rod end is an absolute PITA. Get a set of roll pin punches. Those are mandatory for this. Also I strongly, strongly recommend getting a palm nailer that will fit your roll pin punch. Also, put a clean (emphasis on clean) towel wrapped around the back end of the roll pin to keep it from shooting into the transfer case so you can spend a good hour or two with a magnet on a stick getting it out. Do not damage the shifter rod end either because those are discontinued as well. Do not use aftermarket flywheel bolts. Or if you do, make sure they are exactly the same dimensions as OEM before you go to install them. I have seen people mention that they got the wrong bolts and it meant having to do the job again. High torque impact wrench makes removal easy. I used some combination of a pry bar and flathead screwdriver to keep the flywheel from turning but consider just buying a proper flywheel lock instead. Just buy the OS Giken clutch alignment tool from RHDJapan. I hated the plastic alignment tool and you will never be confident this thing will work as intended. Don't forget to install the Nismo provided clutch fork boot. Otherwise it will make unearthly noises when you press the clutch pedal as it says on the little installation sheet in Japanese. Also, on both initial disassembly and assembly you must follow torque sequence for the pressure plate bolts. For some reason the Nismo directions tell you to put in the smaller 3 bolts last. I would not do this. Fully insert and thread those bolts to the end first, then tighten the other larger pressure plate bolts according to torque sequence. Then at the end you can also torque these 3 smaller bolts. Doing it the other way can cause these bolts to bind and the whole thing won't fit as it should. Hope this helps someone out there.
×
×
  • Create New...