The Automatic Performance Thread

[Fastrotor]

So how did you go about shift compensation ? Without a separate signal from the auto comp that its about to shift, the computer just sees a rapid rpm reduction, with a possible small load increase, depending on how good/bad your wastegate controll is.....

So if you were pulling timing to where it shifts back to, you just have a wavy timging line......

So keen to hear how you went about it ....

Personally im just redesigning the RB25 auto computer ! Already got the PCB proto made and just populated it and writing some test software... already found a SNAFU with the layout, but was easily fixxed for the proto !

Gary

[satanic]

i was wondering when we were going to see your car satanic ! Thats some great numbers. Do you have a dyno sheet so i can see the curve ? You have the extra 500cc and the 26 head to aid low end responce no doubt over the 25.

The flex plate problem seems to be R34 only doesnt it ?

Gary

Hey Gary,

The dyno sheets I have are for the 330 and the 350rwkw; I left the 380rwkw printout at the workshop as I left after going out for some street tuning... will try to get a copy of them up for analysis. I think the biggest thing is the extra 500cc but also the 6 throttle bodies that make it very responsive even with a 2,800 stall converter.

And yes, from what I can tell the flex plate problem is only with the R34s... the R33 one on dangerman4 seems to be doing OK, and the ones on the RB30s are also fine at similar power levels. The main problem is the fact that the plate has a lot of holes punched out throughout the already-thin "skin" making it rather structurally unsound, the torsional strength of it would be next to nothing.

Mike at MV was commissioned to do the job on the new flex plate... the brief was relatively simple; make something that would bolt straight on and take upwards of 600-700nm. He delivered and to this day the box hasn't whinged one bit.

So how did you go about shift compensation ? Without a separate signal from the auto comp that its about to shift, the computer just sees a rapid rpm reduction, with a possible small load increase, depending on how good/bad your wastegate controll is.....

So if you were pulling timing to where it shifts back to, you just have a wavy timging line......

So keen to hear how you went about it ....

Personally im just redesigning the RB25 auto computer ! Already got the PCB proto made and just populated it and writing some test software... already found a SNAFU with the layout, but was easily fixxed for the proto !

Gary

The shift compensation has been taken care of with the HKS F-CON V Pro... with solid advice from HKS Japan, we've been able to implement the system so that it retards ignition whenever shifting takes place by a fixed amount at a certain ms increment. Its 100% tuneable and so far its working well.

Before we fully implemented it, the shifting would result in rather horrid thuds from 1st to 2nd, 2nd to 3rd... after the A/T Compensation through the F-CON though, the shifting was smooth - much like a factory auto. Talking to other users of autos, this may or may not be good as a smooth shift = a lot more time, also meaning more heat which kills autos. The harsher the shift, the less time and ultimately less heat. However, the downside to this is the 'shock' that is sent through the drivetrain that can ultimately destroy it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's interesting though, a lot of people doubted the possibility of running this engine combo, let alone the power figures, through this auto before we set off. Still have a lot of non-believers out there, but I guess as I said up top - technology and knowledge has advanced a lot which allows for this stuff to happen.

We've capped the work at the car's current output for 2008 for budgetary reasons... just can't afford to push for more and risk more stuff breaking. Come 2009 though we'll gun for 400+ which will be interesting.

[satanic]

Just realized I didn't quite answer your question regarding the ignition timing on the shifts...

The F-CON has a feature whereby it will read from an auxiliary map when the car demands it; these aux maps are programmed to whatever the tuner wants - water temp, air temp, rpm, auto shifts, etc etc. At the end of the day, you end up with a primary fuel and ignition map but also about half a dozen aux maps that come into play whenever the situation requires it.

As it is installed in a piggy-back format, the F-CON can read all the signals coming to and from the standard ECU. Using the "car-select" setup, the auto signals are also read by the F-CON and that's how it knows when to kick in the aux maps to keep it running smoothly.

[Fastrotor]

Ah ok, yes this makes sense then. I knew the R34 has the auto control logic built into the stock ECU , so the fcon can decipher the data output, thats cool. I was also tossing with this, to look at the data stream and figure out what its saying when its about to shift. This is still an option for those that don't want a full custom auto ecu replacemnet

Im running the new Link G4 plugin , and the custom auto comp will send it info to switch in a full map ignition correction also, so hopefully will have as good of a result as you have achieved then.

But yours is a great result, and finally a computer that can work with the auto signals ..... i always though the plug in comps from LINK and others should have sorted this out themselves already, but no.

Look forward to the dyno sheets.

What size cooler piping do you run ?

Gary

[satanic]

Cooler Piping:

EX - 2.5"

IN - 3.0"

Makes the front-on view look kinda retarded but it works well after going into a 600x300x100 core - even the "temp-on-the-hands" gauge registers a massive difference. FMIC & Piping surprisingly took very minimal effort, got it all done in a few hours - cost was a lot less than anticipated with the amount of gear required.

Dyno Graph:

* As mentioned, only got the one showing ~350rwkw.

* You'll notice boost comes on really late, the E01 was not properly configured at this stage - we now get 1BAR @ 3,500rpm

* The RED lines are from the final tune of the RB25 setup which saw 240rwkw

Pending how the lead-up to the festive season goes, I'll try put it on a dyno again

[SECURITY]

little update: pulled 220.4kw on the dyno half way through the tune when we started to hear some crappy noises from the car. Guilt-Toy and QUICKY can verify this.

also pulled a 13.4 @ 106.9mph with a bodgy tune.

[Fastrotor]

Ok thanks for info. I'm just replumbing currently to suit turbo mounted on the hks cast manifold.... and was thinking of upgrading to 3"(currently about 4 meters of 2.5"!!) . However all the calcs ive done (using a huge spreadsheet ive made up) indicate airspeed below .3 mach still, so should be fine, its just nice to see some real world results to see whats possible. I am just in a desparate bid to solve the brick wall i've run into. New larger BB Turbonetics (using same vg30 bored out rear as original just bored out more) didnt make a skeric more than previous..... made 230 at 11psi, 250 at 16, and still 250 at 24 psi ! only slight drop to 22 over run says pipingprobably not restriction ... And although most say std cast manifold is brick wall at 300rwkw's , if it was you'd expect exhaust gas to drop off and hence boost to drop as revs rose and motor requested more... so dunno..... power was getting abit wavy up to so maybe valve float (dont rev above 7K) .... or auto playing silly buggers. Might lock up clutch in 3rd and do a run..... with and without locked..... will consult mike at MV first though.

Anyway enough rambling on until i can come back with some real world results for ya.

It looks like a lovley tractable curve you have there ! Well done, must be fun to drive !!

Gary

[satanic]

Those figures of boost don't sound right... especially when paired to the power outputs; are you sure you haven't maxed out the turbo setup at 16psi?

[Haines]

Gary

Im having the same dramas at the moment

mine made 235kws at 14 psi then made 240kws at 18psi

are you still using stock BOV ?

or could it be auto is slipping ???

[Fastrotor]

Thats the thing satanic, the previous hiflow (Rx-7 front cover with V-trim hi-flow 6blade, turbonetics center, VG30 rear with garrett To3 Stage 3 turbine wheel) made exact same power.

Now new turbonetics BB with To3 stage 3 turbine wheel, and alot larger comp wheel with a large comp housing, surge slots and 4" inlet. (using same VG30 rear abeit with more meat taken out of slot area to increase flow)

Also, exhaust had 7psi BP.... magic cat had collapsed somewhat, so removed and 3.2psi BP now, yet not a Kw more....

I did have the ramp rate set a bit below 10kph/sec to really work it to make sure i had no detonation, so that could affect the histall or auto..... for some reason when ramping slowly on original auto, it would dip hugely if ramped to slow at bottom end....

i just ran out of time on dyno to try a few things. Either way its abit confusing as to whats the cause.

Anyway, i've got the HKS cast manifold on now, replaced the VG30 bored out housing with a full Turbonetics .63 housing to suit the Stage 3 To3 wheel , external 44mm Tial gate, 4" dump to 3" at cat. And still trying to fit in a full 4" piping to turbo. (intake) So we shall see what happens then.

Also i have finally got onto a S/H R33 Auto computer to steal the connector off the PCB so i can solder it onto my circuit board and then i have full say to what it does. So that should also elliminate and weird things the auto omp could be doing too.

Peter, not running stock BOV , got one of johns custom twin piston types. I doubt auto is slipping, at least by itself, not after a $3K + rebuild ! Auto comp could be playing silly buggers though....

Gary

Edited November 25, 2008 by Fastrotor

[Haines]

Gary mines dipping big time around 4500 and it makes it sort of have to start again

I might have to wire in the nvcs and see if i can manipulate it around there ( I believe it kicks in around 4500)

also after blocking the standard BOV off i cant seem to feel the dip as much anymore its much more linear

[Fastrotor]

Show us your dyno chart, should be able to see the ramp rate then..... Try ramping it quicker, thats how we got past the big dip mine was doing originally .

Gary

[Haines]

havent got any hard copies of dyno charts yet Gary

Im also running 2.5" on the hot side of my intercooler piping in case you are wondering

Im sure we can work it all out but im a bit concerned that 3 psi only got me 5Kws

[Haines]

Okay

couldnt get more the 248Kws @ 16psi

so we stopped there

emanage was giving us grief jumping between the two maps ( standard and rich and retard)

im sure with abit more time on the dyno we could catch the point at which its doing it and stop it going to R&R

but im a little over it for now

maybe later on ill look into it again

[Fastrotor]

Still a good result peter, got your sheet yet ?

Now off to the drags to see if you can run a number !

Gary

[Turbo Dave]

Only just found this thread,

These are the results Ive been looking for...

Got mine tuned a while back and it makes 234rwkw@15psi.

Goes good but am gunna get a bit more out of it once I get a complete box from MV and VG30 rear housing!

Specs Below

[Fastrotor]

Im selling my VG30 Rear housing. Already got wastegate bored out and ported around it inside, however the housing is bored out to suit a T03 stage 3 garrett or turbonetics turbine wheel.

PM if interested.

Gary

[Turbo Dave]

Pity.. I have a different wheel I think.

[Fastrotor]

Just got the car back together this arvo and got it up and running again. Managed to get the full 4" intake and now using a 4" K&N filter. Will be cardboard fantasy'ing later on to come up with a box around it , then get it laser cut once looking nice. Also , currently got screamer, as i have to order a v-band 2" and flex joint to join back into exhaust. but thats changing too, as its 4" dump then welded onto chopped up end of original dump pipe for now. Later i will go 4" to Cat, then 3.5 back. Basically alot of small compromises in neatness (for my normal level anyhow) just to get it going again and to see if it all works !

It was good to hear it run finally .... but cops are rampant locally as its the season and all, so i though better of taking it out for some testing just yet..... So since it was still on jack stands i tried to stall it up.... Shame R33 rear brakes are shitty, as it wont lock fully, however i stayed on it and got to 10 psi and the gate cracked and holly shit........ Skyline lovers anywhere in a few blocks ears would have pricked up !!! haha

Gary

Edited December 21, 2008 by Fastrotor

[ShiftyTys]

My old s1 auto r33. Never had the opurtunity to track it. But dynod on dyno dynamics in shootout mode.

3" turbo back Inc dump.

K&n pod

Fmic

Turbosmart boost Tee (bleed type controller). Set to 9psi.

158 rwkw