Now: R32 Gtr Brake Upgrade Discussion

[PSI_GTSII]

I have my 2nd track day coming up since buying my GTR.

My GTR runs standard cross drilled Discs and calipers with unknown pads and Fluid.

It performed reasonably well on its first outing under brakes, not overly powerfull (standing on the pedal did'nt seem to provoke the ABS) but the car pulled up consistently over the night, and put on a great fire show (like a giant childs sparkler!) under hard braking.

Thought I might replace both fluid and pads for this meet see if it makes any difference.

What do you guys recomend?

I have used 'Green Stuff' and 'Metal Kings' in inferior cars at track days and they seemed to perform OK, but have never ever bled and replaced fluid, so have no idea there.

Thanks

Lindsay

Edited September 5, 2006 by PSI_GTSII

[T04GTR]

motul rbf600 is good

[maccattack]

Lindsay,

Would agree with the Motul recommendation for fuluid. I would be very careful with cross drilled rotors on a GTR. I put DBA4000's onto my car (at a rep's recommendation) and shattered both the fronts on my second track outing. Currently use the 5000 series but any solids will probably be better than cross drilled. I used to use Endless pads but these are getting a little expensive. Since changed to Hawk race pads which are very good both cool and hot.

[djr81]

Lindsay,

Would agree with the Motul recommendation for fuluid. I would be very careful with cross drilled rotors on a GTR. I put DBA4000's onto my car (at a rep's recommendation) and shattered both the fronts on my second track outing. Currently use the 5000 series but any solids will probably be better than cross drilled. I used to use Endless pads but these are getting a little expensive. Since changed to Hawk race pads which are very good both cool and hot.

Be careful with the DBA 4000 series rotors as well. These are my REAR rotors. Fronts were not too far away from being the same. Wear on both fronts & rears was negligible, but nonetheless cracks formed then propogated from the return slots in the rotors. I would recommend a rotors without slots that go all the way to the outside as these just seem to crack.

As for pads, the Ferodo DS2500's are very good on the GT-R. I highly recommend them. Just make sure with any new pad/disc combo you bed them in properly & that the system is bled properly - something which some workshops find very difficult to do.

[sav man]

i've got cracks all through my normal roters (solid ventelated). Just depends on your track, and your cooling solution.

[djr81]

Front or rear?

Also, how much rotor width was left.

Mostly I find rotors crack when:

1. They are getting near the width limit.

2. They aren't warmed/cooled properly.

3. Poor design in the frst place.

At the moment I am putting the cracks in my REAR rotors down to reason number 3.

As to the fronts, you can see the cracked rotor surface. Not sure if these are cracks or the grain boundaries in the metal wearing. Maybe a metallurgist/brake guru can help...

Edited August 31, 2006 by djr81

[Topaz]

My standard rotors weren't cracked, but they were warped and under braking the car shuddered like crazy.

I currently sport DBA4000's and Ferodo pads on the front, the pads are labelled DB117 (which is the part number I think), but I am not sure if they are DS2500's or not...

[djr81]

If they are DS2500's they will have DS2500 written on the back of the pad.

[GTRgeoff]

Agree on RBF 600 and I intensely dislike DBA design and slotting method. The new RDA discs are a far superior option with a spiral curve cut groove and semi drillings so talk to a local brake shop. DBA are for the cafe racers. Also dump the cross drilled....fast.

Don't use Greenstuff on a large car on the track. Even they don't recommend it. I also don't much like metal kings other than on the road.

Ferodos are well liked but I don't anything more than a brief drive with them, and some of the Racebrakes pads like comp 7 or comp 9 seem fine, although I use RB74 on my GTS25t track car front and comp 7 rear, but have none of the braking problems others experience, probably since I was running mostly on road rubber. Bigger car and maybe semis think of the Ferodos. There are many that other recommend as well so hunt around previous topics.

[TokyoTaxi]

Agree on RBF 600 and I intensely dislike DBA design and slotting method. The new RDA discs are a far superior option with a spiral curve cut groove and semi drillings so talk to a local brake shop. DBA are for the cafe racers. Also dump the cross drilled....fast.

Don't use Greenstuff on a large car on the track. Even they don't recommend it. I also don't much like metal kings other than on the road.

I'll also agree about RBF 600. I've always been able to get / maintain a good pedal with this fluid but never with Castrol SRF so I just stick with RBF 600 and I've been happy since ! ( Good price too )

And I'll also second the RDA ( formerly known as EBC Turbogroove ) rotors with the curved venting slots and blind drilled holes. I used them on all 4 corners with EBC Greenstuff on the front & EBC Blacks on the back for the street and they were awesome ! Low dust, great bite, never squeeled and were quite consistent from cold to hot. But yeah, use a EBC Redstuff ( I think ) for track use ( if chosing EBC ).

Unfortunatly, I held out to find some more of these for as long as I could and then ended up getting DBA4000's all around. I don't hate DBA4000's, but I don't love them

[sav man]

Front or rear?

Also, how much rotor width was left.

Mostly I find rotors crack when:

1. They are getting near the width limit.

2. They aren't warmed/cooled properly.

3. Poor design in the frst place.

At the moment I am putting the cracks in my REAR rotors down to reason number 3.

As to the fronts, you can see the cracked rotor surface. Not sure if these are cracks or the grain boundaries in the metal wearing. Maybe a metallurgist/brake guru can help...

My fronts are cracked, similar to that pic, but bigger. The problem is that symmods is to hard on brakes, and I probably didn't cool them properly, you could feel the heat on your legs when you walked past the car in the pits.

I use Castrol SRF, i've found it to be good. But I know some people here don't rate it.

[djr81]

Silly pricing has kept me away from the Castrol gear. Nothing else.

[Roy]

So if your running 2500s on the front. What are you running pad wise up the back?

[djr81]

Same.

The pads I was running (on the rotors that became cracked) were RB74's front & Bendix Ultimates rear. So nothing you could call aggressive...

Edited August 31, 2006 by djr81

[tacker]

After much talking and posting about brakes i thought i would just see how bad the factroy brakes were. I had thought about lots of different options etc, but in the end i went for RDA slotted rotors front and back. Motul 600 degree fluid, nismo braided lines all round, bendix ultima pads on the rear and project Mu level 900 on the front.

I also ducted air to the front brakes and removed the aluminimum stone gaurds. I still need to duct the rear brakes and i think i will also run another duct to the fronts just for a little more air cooling them down.

Last Friday we had our first test session with these mods, and even thought the day was 44 C and the test sessions were 20 minutes long we were still ok with brakes. We have 3 very big stops on the track 2 are from over 220km and the other is hitting 190km, and a lap time of about 1m 50s. I did notice a slight drop in the pedal but brakes were still good, and i think this may have come from the rears not being ducted yet. We checked the temps on the rotors and calipers when we got in and the fronts were great at under 300 C for the rotor and 137 on the standard calipers. The rear rotors were hotter than the front by about 70C and the calipers were also about 30C higher hence the reason for the need to duct the rear rotors too.

Had great feel on the pedal and never once had to stand on the pedal to make them work, Good bite from cool to hot can recommend this combo to all who dont want to spend big $ on brake kits.

Big point is to get more air to the rotors its not hard to do and it seems to work a treat, i will let you know more after the 16th with the extra brake ducts in place.

Edited August 31, 2006 by tacker

[djr81]

Did you not use thermographic paint to measure the rotor temperatures? I am pretty sure that the temps will be hitting well over the 630 degree mark on the front & 550 on the back. Atleast that's what mine do.

Also, whilst the standard rotors & brakes are pretty good, it is difficult to generate more than one gees retardation at track speeds. Which is to say, they aren't really good enough for a serious track car.

Measuring the temps when you get back to the pits is a bit meaningless. Also, if you used an infra red pyrometer it is completely meaningless because they don't work on shiney metal surfaces.

[tacker]

You are correct about measuring the brake temp when returning to the pits, it is surely not as good as during use. But i measured the temp with infra red gun on the rusty bit on the out side of the rotor, again not purfect but did tell me my rears were hotter than the front so it helped me realize i need to cool the rears more.

I could also check the temps on the other 2 skylines running with me, again i aggree its not the most sientific way of doing this but it is all relevent to my car so if i am consistent on my run down lap ( 3rd gear ) i sort of know what is taking place.

And again you are right about the standard brakes underperforming for a full blown track car. It is only for my enjoyment and to see what i can do to improve the car without spending grillions on dollars doing it. I had everything from ferrari's, lambos and porche carrea GT running on the track at the same time and you should have seen the tears when they all pulled in at the 10 minute mark due to brake fad.You should have seen the faces when they learned the price for new brake pads for these super cars.

And there was little old me with my 6000$ skyline completing the full 20 min session with the brake combo i discribed above.

Edited August 31, 2006 by tacker

[someonestolecc]

Had great feel on the pedal and never once had to stand on the pedal to make them work, Good bite from cool to hot can recommend this combo to all who dont want to spend big $ on brake kits.

And again you are right about the standard brakes underperforming for a full blown track car. It is only for my enjoyment and to see what i can do to improve the car without spending grillions on dollars doing it. I had everything from ferrari's, lambos and porche carrea GT running on the track at the same time and you should have seen the tears when they all pulled in at the 10 minute mark due to brake fad.You should have seen the faces when they learned the price for new brake pads for these super cars.

And there was little old me with my 6000$ skyline completing the full 20 min session with the brake combo i discribed above.

Awesome

I can second the mu project. I haven't used them for extended periods like you circuit guys, but the times I've punished my brakes and they worked for me was 100% (using rbf600). Admittedly I would also say a skyline you'd want better pads too, but I experienced such good performance from my lowest range (or second lowest) project mu pads that I think the higher rated ones in the range would be very good pads.

[PSI_GTSII]

Some good info there thanks guys

I am taking my GTR to Perth Brake Parts next week to upgrade my brakes (Can only use this mob so as I can get parts thru work).

Couple more things:

Say I fit the DBA 4000/5000 discs, will they be the same diameter as my standard R32 GTR Discs?

Can I increase the disc size on standard Calipers?

Is it really nessacary having fitted decent Discs, Pads, and Fluid to increase caliper size?

Judging by what has been said in this thread regarding the DBA4000's, I am leaning towards the DBA5000's discs, but what is the general consensus on which pad you would choose with these discs from:

EBC Red Stuff

DS2500

DS3000

Pagid

Thanks Again

Edited September 1, 2006 by PSI_GTSII

[tacker]

Bigger brakes are of course better as they diapate heat better, even more so with an aluminimum hat.

I have seen some guys that know what they are talking about on this forum ( not me ) and unless you are running semi's or slicks then the standard brakes will see you through if you look after them.

Mate if you have the money buy a set of AP brakes or brembos, if not then the combo i discribed about if a fair bet for a part time track runner. Spend your money on a good suspension kit and it will help you out with lap times, more so than huge brakes.