Welding - Newbie Help & Info Needed Please.

[B-Man]

G'Day,

I need to weld up some bits and pieces on my project car - eg: Sway bar mounts, small chassis crack.

Since this is a complete DIY project - I want to learn how to weld - and I have NFI on the different types of welding.

Alls I know is that you welders are pretty inexpensive these days - and if I get one, and learn how to use it properly, I know I can use it in the future for all kinds of stuff.

So what I do know is there there are ARC, TIG, MIG, CIG welders - and that some require gas and some not.

So my questions are:

1) Which would be the best welder for my application. What would be the best way to learn without bodging up what I need to do.

2) What is the differences between ARC, TIG, MIG etc - When do you require gas and why ? (not that I think I need this)

3) Am I being overly ambitious with what I want to do - Should I just pay someone to do the job for me ? (Car not movable from my place though, so would need to be portable)

Thanks in advance.

[GTR32GUS]

Welding is alot harder then it looks , i done a little bit of arc welding when growing up on the farm just on broken gates and stuff and each time it was so rough i think all the cows and sheep were laughing at me. If u want a neat job u a gunna have to get a lot of practice or pay somebody.

Maybe go to TAFE and see about a welding course if u want to learn

[r33_racer]

by arc your referring to stick welding, mig is good for alot of continous welding and probably the easiest to master and tig is for fine work, typically alot of automotive/race fab is done with a tig, but is alot harder and takes quite a while before the quality and appearance is upto standard.

Your best bet atm would be a mig of somesort, probably gasless cause that saves you the cost of hiring a gas bottle from boc. But ive never used a gasless mig before so i cant comment on its ability and the rest.

In welding the gas keeps the welding area free from oxygen which causes porosity and significantly weakens the welded joint, all industrial welders, migs will use gas typically argoshield universal or light, which is a mix of argon, co2 and o2. The gasless mig will probably have something like a flux in the wire similar to stick which will protect the weld area with a coating which will stop porosity from occuring.

I can say welding is an important skill as you can fab up alot of stuff yourself, but for what you need to weld up its a pretty touchy area the chassis, if your not fully aware of what your doing or what to do you could make a bigger mess of it then what you started with. For that i would get someone to do that repair, but you can always learn for the future.

Hopefully enough of that makes sense.

[tridentt150v]

Go to your local tech college and see if they have a farmers/handyman 8 week course. These type of courses usually are made for guys like yourself who want to learn to weld but don't need to be qualified, they are usually 1 or 2 nights a week. Warning may cost you $50-$100, but its well worth it.

[GTRgeoff]

Some Tafes also do a more detailed welding course for about $600.

Some things to contemplate.

ARC (stick) can look good on the top of the slag but is crap underneath so you have to practice and adjust your technique. PAy extra for a decent fan cooled adjustable current machine.

MIG is the easiest but the switchable ones are not quite flexible enough so dials for current, wave and feed are worthwile. Forget gasless, it's crap, I've tried. Argoshield for Steel. Pure argon for stainless and ally. A decent machine will do them. About $1K or so should do the job.

TIG, can be cheapish for steel but you need to spend more than $5K for one that inverts to weld ally with those sexy fillets.

Practice and enjoy mate.

[B-Man]

Thanks guys. Been looking on E-Bay for a welder. I think they can be had for little... When you add up how much it would cost me to get the car to a place to fix, then the actual fixing - I could get me a welder and do it myself - Then have a welder for later - or for mates etc.

TAFE sounds like a good idea !

I could also hire one from Kennards or Coates - that might get me started !

[tridentt150v]

And remember, up welds and down welds are heaps harder to do than flat welds. But you really need to learn about bevelling, cleaning the site of contaminants, determining which stick/wire to use [yes there are heaps of different types for different metals and applications], route gaps, heat ranges, impurities in metal, distortion rates etc etc etc

[B-Man]

Fark me - no wonder there is a course !

[GTRgeoff]

Hah, my brother in law is a pressure vessel certified boilermaker. He has experimented a lot and found that most of the time cleaning is a waste of time, just cranks a bit more current and it cleans itself. Dodgy bastard

Bendan, there is a lot to learn, but it's an art too so you have an excuse to practice. Happy shopping.

[tridentt150v]

Yeah, didn't mean to scare you. Once you learn this sort of stuff, you forget it/don't have to remember it. It becomes like putting the blinker on or riding a bike, you do it, you just don't remember doing it. Its all part of the whole welding thing.

Geoff, been guilty of doing that myself, but it doesn't always work, slag in welds, porousity, chrome/gal embrittlement etc etc But it does work for all new steel jobs, and I'd reckon 3/4 of the time its sweet and simple.

[r33_racer]

Cheaters....A job is only as good as the prep!

Well thats what the tafe teachers taught us haha. Sometimes ya just too lazy or in a rush to care about cleaning or prep...as stated just crank up the amps and lay into it (not on chassis though). Pretend your working on excavation equipment God i love spray arc

Edited September 19, 2006 by r33_racer

[R33S2]

If you are welding a crack on the chasis, there is a procedure for it, and as a certified welder, I have had to this a few times now.

First is dertermine where the crack starts and stops, then drill a hole at both locations, this is required because when you start welding the crack could continue cracking and the holes stop this.

Before welding preheat the area, this is required because most chasis's are made from a high grade steel and the heat generated could cause a crack to form next to the weld, 80 deg up to 150 is recommended. I use the touch method where you heat it and when it is too hot to touch that is enough. A heat gun like what you use to remove paint is good for this.

A chasis is usually coated in antirust and road grime so clean it first, with a grinder then thinners but if you preheat that also gets most of the crap off.

If you are not aware of the fact any modifications or repairs to a chasis are required to have an engineers cert, but if you are good with a grinder and can hide it with paint you can get way with it, just dont leave it in an obivous state that screams 'look I've been worked on' plus the welds that you do MUST be of good quality otherwise you are just creating a weak point that will fail eventually because of the flex that a chasis continually goes through.

I hope I havent you discouraged too much but they are very important part of the vehicle and must be treated with care and attention.

[mad082]

i'd hire a welder to start with rather than buy off ebay. i wouldn't buy something like a welder off ebay for a few reasons. 1 if there is a problem with it you are limited as to what you can do about it. 2 the cost of freight may put the price up a fair bit.

you could try the industrial auctions for a cheap welder. stuff goes really cheap through them. a guy i know bought a 2 post car hoist for $160.

[Craved]

i'd hire a welder to start with rather than buy off ebay. i wouldn't buy something like a welder off ebay for a few reasons. 1 if there is a problem with it you are limited as to what you can do about it. 2 the cost of freight may put the price up a fair bit.

you could try the industrial auctions for a cheap welder. stuff goes really cheap through them. a guy i know bought a 2 post car hoist for $160.

i bought a MIG last year .

can run both Gasless and std wire. was $550 - most industrial bolt/tool shops have these

gasless wire doesnt weld as good and the normal wire, but does still work a charm after some practice (depending on the application)

Mad - where abouts are these industrial auctions in NSW if you know?

[$weetDreamZ]

When welding on the car do you need to take any special precautions regarding the fuel system? Isn't it dangerous to be welding so close to fuel lines? How do the pro's do it? Thanks for your advice!

[R33S2]

The turbo blanket/Fire blanket stuff, draped over the lines should be all you need unless you are welding very close to them, then I would wrap them and tape them to avoid arcing them, leaks should be avoided like the plague. Have the earth attached as close as possible to the work area and disconnect the battery.

Saying that, I do it to customers cars, but have never bothered with any of my own (the battery).

[Roy]

Tig is the only way to go...you dont have to be that great a welder if the fit up is spot on. If you have poor fit up then you have to be a good welder to get a good fit.

The scret is in havign the material fit up and knowing how to set the weld piece up...the weldign bit can be picked up very quick...give me a day and you woudl be welding pretty tip top

[r33_racer]

Thats where the skills of a fabricator shines, being able to weld good even if the prep is shit or the job doesnt go together as good as it should.

Preperation is 90% of the job.

Edited September 25, 2006 by r33_racer

[$weetDreamZ]

Yeah, it seems like every other kind of job, that preparation is the key to a good finish. Do you think that welding is something a girl could do or is there too much physical strength required (I'm only lil)?

Is it best to get some professional training like a short course at tafe or wea course rather than reading instructions from a book to learn the basics? Like B-man I reckon being able to weld would be a real handy thing around the home.

Thanks for the advice,

Linda

Edited September 27, 2006 by $weetDreamZ

[Craved]

not really a strength requiring skill, unless your working with big materials, and the welder can be on a trolley.

found some really good articles on the hybrid z forum.. well the links are there .

site with how to's, projects and tech articales on how to weld.