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Time Attack - November 28

MountainRunner

By MountainRunner,
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hrd-hr30 Grand Master

hrd-hr30

Posted
Posted

sounds good to me!

Good idea on the classes - pretty much what you have been doing on this site with the GTR and GTST breakdown.

Top Ten Results:

The top ten on the front page is the best of the best.

I am leaning towards DOT approved tyres (ie no full slicks) The only problem is I don't have a record of tyres for any of the hundreds of lap records I now have. It would be unfair to scrap records of all those guys at this stage.

I don't think any of the Top10 have used slicks. All the Group1 cars seemed to be on DOT race rubber last time and were running at or very near their best times. I know a couple of the other GTR's in the Top10 that were not there last time also use DOT semi slicks.

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Willo Proficient

Willo

Posted
Posted

Just my opinion (and it is often misguided at best) but keep the classes simple along the lines of:

FWD

RWD

AWD

and within each class have a code to indicate tyre choice as:

ST - Street

SS - Semi-slick

SL - Slick

and have a flag for turbo/na.

If the times are all stored in a database and the web site pulls from the database the end user can sort the results any way they please eg. top 10 outright, top 10 in a class, top 10 on SS etc. etc..

But I do believe the front page top 10 should be best of the best regardless of setup.

Comments/suggestions/flamage etc.?

r_speedfreak_r Proficient

r_speedfreak_r

Posted
Posted (edited)

i dont know how many fwds will be attending. Wouldnt it be easier and more accurate to just get everyone on the track for a qualifying lap and then split people up into groups withing time brackets. that way it doesnt matter what car you have, what tyres you have or how hard tuned your car is. Your driving with people that do similar times which is whats important

Edited by r_speedfreak_r
MountainRunner Mentor

MountainRunner

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Hi r_speedfreak_r, the problem is not the groups on the day. I have lap data on most people already and the day is fully pre-planned. You are allocated a group and pit bay in advance.

What we are discussing is how to break up the lap times for the web site. The classes to use to credit the top ten runners in each "class" etc.

With FWD, I do have a few of those come out. Check out the hall of fame and you will see just about everything in there.

http://www.timeattack.com.au/hall_of_fame.php

Paul

Baysidebluebnr34 Rising Star

Baysidebluebnr34

Posted
Posted
Just my opinion (and it is often misguided at best) but keep the classes simple along the lines of:

FWD

RWD

AWD

and within each class have a code to indicate tyre choice as:

ST - Street

SS - Semi-slick

SL - Slick

and have a flag for turbo/na.

If the times are all stored in a database and the web site pulls from the database the end user can sort the results any way they please eg. top 10 outright, top 10 in a class, top 10 on SS etc. etc..

But I do believe the front page top 10 should be best of the best regardless of setup.

Comments/suggestions/flamage etc.?

Sounds like a good way to have it!

MountainRunner Mentor

MountainRunner

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I like where this is going. How about:

1. The front page top ten is the Best of the Best.

Turbo / Super charger = Engine Capacity * 1.7

2. FWD

3. RWD less than or equal 2.0 liter engine

4. RWD greater than 2.0 liter engine

5. AWD

Sub Classes:

A. Street / Semi-slick (DOT tyres)

B. Slicks

Baysidebluebnr34 Rising Star

Baysidebluebnr34

Posted
Posted
I like where this is going. How about:

1. The front page top ten is the Best of the Best.

Turbo / Super charger = Engine Capacity * 1.7

2. FWD

3. RWD less than or equal 2.0 liter engine

4. RWD greater than 2.0 liter engine

5. AWD

Sub Classes:

A. Street / Semi-slick (DOT tyres)

B. Slicks

Hi Paul,

Have a look in the back of HPI, they have a simlar thing for the drag times. I rekcon if we modified it with the classes and our info above, it would be just about right!!

Sam Irving

hrd-hr30 Grand Master

hrd-hr30

Posted
Posted
I like where this is going. How about:

1. The front page top ten is the Best of the Best.

Turbo / Super charger = Engine Capacity * 1.7

2. FWD

3. RWD less than or equal 2.0 liter engine

4. RWD greater than 2.0 liter engine

5. AWD

Sub Classes:

A. Street / Semi-slick (DOT tyres)

B. Slicks

If you are going to have sub classes to denote tyre type, may as well include

C. Street (non competition tyre)

My vote is to leave the Top 10 times for DOT tyres only. I'd like to see that remain as a fair fight, not just elevating cars up there on tyre selection. Slicks are worth at least 2 seconds over a DOT competition tyre, and up to 4 seconds in experienced hands. Its apples and oranges. If you want the "Best of the Best" in the top 10, then you don't want a relatively standard GT-R ahead of some of those 4-500bhp GT-Rs (and EVOs SUpras etc) just because he turned up with a set of slicks...

Baysidebluebnr34 Rising Star

Baysidebluebnr34

Posted
Posted
If you are going to have sub classes to denote tyre type, may as well include

C. Street (non competition tyre)

My vote is to leave the Top 10 times for DOT tyres only. I'd like to see that remain as a fair fight, not just elevating cars up there on tyre selection. Slicks are worth at least 2 seconds over a DOT competition tyre, and up to 4 seconds in experienced hands. Its apples and oranges. If you want the "Best of the Best" in the top 10, then you don't want a relatively standard GT-R ahead of some of those 4-500bhp GT-Rs (and EVOs SUpras etc) just because he turned up with a set of slicks...

Spot on there!!

maccattack Proficient

maccattack

Posted
Posted

I think everything so far is spot on.

About the only thing I would add is that cars also be tagged ® Race or (S)Street.

I don't think you need re-classify anyone (ie: more groups) simply a denotion beside their times.

(S)Street would denote that it is a fully registered road car. ®Race is anything else.

It just gives people more information regards time comparisons as there is generally a fair weight variation in cars.

hrd-hr30 Grand Master

hrd-hr30

Posted
Posted

I think that's a fair idea too, but it is never as easy to implement as it seems.

SPARC (my old car club) used to do it like that with their events many years ago and there were quite often people unhappy with being classed as race cars, or complaining about who was in street cars with them. And more recently I've seen it at MtCotton with their "road registered" class as well. It's designed for newbies and less modified cars that wouldn't be competitive in the Improved Production class where street cars used to end up when I started. Seemed like a good idea, until it started getting abused. One recent example was a log booked, full caged car that regularly races in Historic Touring cars (think it was Nb), running "not for highway use" tyres! just because they still had a number plate on it, he entered in the "road registered" class.

So there needs to be some definition of what is a race car and what isn't, because there are a few things that will cloud the issue from my experience:

1) people who get put in race class, might argue that their unregistered, full caged, race-use-only car on slicks is "less modified" than some of the street cars there.

2) on the other hand you also see some street registered cars completely stripped of all uneccesary items/interior/weight with full cages. At what point does a street car become a race car?

3) rally cars - either tarmac or gravel rally. all rally cars are legally road registered, but at the same time fully prepped race cars in their own right??

4) a trailered, unregistered car on DOT tyres with stripped interior etc but no cage???

MountainRunner Mentor

MountainRunner

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I think all the AWD cars on the circuit being grouped is ok. The GTR's, EVO's and WRX's run similar times. Changing the engine capacity cut off to 2.4 on the rear wheel drives is closer to the comments above with the 1.7 scale factor on turbo's.

Turbo / Super charger = Engine Capacity * 1.7

1. AWD

2. RWD greater than 2.4 liter engine

3. RWD less than 2.4 liter engine

4. FWD

I think what is being under credited is that no matter what car it is and how it is setup, the driver plays a major part in the lap time. We have guys driving the same car who run lap times seconds apart.

Guys bring out their cars prepared they way they want within their budget restrictions and put down a lap time. Depending on where you are on the skill / budget line places you in the time chart.

This is what a class structure cannot truely capture. Guys in every class will be at different levels of tuning and commitment to the circuit. Whether you stripped your car of weight or run semi slicks instead of street tyres is an indication of intent. If you have less intent then you will be lower in the results. I don't think this is a bad thing. As maccattack said, putting a mark next to someone's time, but not creating another class, is probably the fairest way to differentiate the cars. Determining what is a race car may be a new topic of discussion.

maccattack Proficient

maccattack

Posted
Posted

Harry,

I think you are right. Perhaps it will open a new can of worms. At the end of the day, it's just you against the track and your own time. Most people who go to the Time Attack days have a pretty good idea of the other cars out there and how you and your own car compares. As Paul mentioned, there are plenty of owners who drive very similar cars, but are seconds apart. Whilst it is good for an ego stroke, when its all over, no one wins a million dollars. We all go home and say, shit I drove that fairly hard but I should of done this or that and my time would have been better.

I don't really think classifications will ever (in everyones eyes) be fair. As Harry said, you will always get someone abusing the rules. I know myself, that there are a few guys out there who will kick my arse hard every time we go out - but who cares. I'm driving to my own (limited) ability and having fun.

There is always (and I mean always) going to be times when someone betters our times, irrespective of mods, horsepower, weight, ability, etc, etc, etc. We can all only do the best we can - and have fun doing it. :)

r33_racer Grand Master

r33_racer

Posted
Posted

AGREED FUN! FUN! Its going to be fun. A day of letting loose and going nuts on the track with no silly speed limits and coppers annoying you. Hooray for race tracks i say!

With the classing perhaps throw up some final ideas and everyone can vote on it and go from there. Obviously the fairest system is whats wanted for the majority, not the minority.

jmac Rising Star

jmac

Posted
Posted

I say just keep the class system simple. The whole point SHOULD be just getting out there and having fun. The more you focus on classes, rules, restrictions etc the less fun the whole exercise becomes. For me the thrill is more about beating my own times, setting consistent times, experimenting with lines, braking points etc and pushing my limited abilities and my car as hard as I want whilst remaining safe doing so.

I say if someone rocks up in a fully stripped race car on the back of a trailer on slicks with twin jet engines and heat-seeking stinger missiles, that's AWESOME, good luck, and can I have a passenger ride?.... but maybe don't ask to be put in with the group of Skyline guys doing dodgy stuff but having a sh1tload of fun!!!! :P

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