Banning Performance Cars From P Platers = More Deaths

[Kennedy]

I had the luxury of growing up on a 140 acre property at Galston and was driving since I was 12 and did the galston gorge twice a day from 16 to 21 yo. This taught me how to drive. I wish all of you had a control environment to experiment with your car. Things like skid pan days should pushed by the RTA so a person does not wig out at the first sign of lost traction.

[dangerous_daveo]

thats a better way to deter them. show them a person in their early 20's that is servely messed up due to a crash.

No it wont, give them the skills to drive properly. Photos are part of our training, but it doesnt give anyone any skills to get out of a mess either they or someone else put them in.

[mad082]

the problem with driver courses is that some people think that since they have done one they can handle the car better, so try even more stupid stuff.

[mad082]

No it wont, give them the skills to drive properly. Photos are part of our training, but it doesnt give anyone any skills to get out of a mess either they or someone else put them in.

i didn't mean pictures. i meant have someone there in person, or take them out to a crash.

[Rezz]

TWICE!!! Far out, I would have expected a little more, but not twice!

To say, rah rah gene pool, rah rah, inexperience rah rah.

It is simple, teach people how to drive. Not show them how to park, show them how to change gears all that. Show them how to drive properly, then teach them how to do it. In controlled conditions put these people out of their safety zones.

The driver could have all the defensive driving instruction in the world, but is that gonna stop them from a moment of madness on a Saturday night drink driving with a bunch of friends in the backseat egging them on to 'see what top speed she can do'? Is that gonna stop that poorly posted sharp corner from coming up too quickly?

It's even more simple, the 17 - 20yr old deaths will start to decrease when it's considered 'cool' to be responsible on the roads no matter whos in the car or what kind of car you're driving... with zero tolerance DD Policing and P-plater cars with 80km/h speed limiters on them.

Sound like a too tall order?

[Mulkers]

what ever happened to natural selection?

[mad082]

P-plater cars with 80km/h speed limiters on them

that does. especially if they live out of town and have to drive through a 100 zone. all that would do is cause road rage on the highway. and when you had your p's did you ever overtake someone on the highway that was doing 85 in a 100 zone? and did you break the speed limit in the process. limiting the cars to about 140-150 is a more sensible idea. or have them limited by gps, so that when in a 60kmh area that can't go more than say 70kmh. you would have to have it just above the legal limit or you would end up with more p platers being punched off the road by semi drivers who are running late.

also, on the cover of the local paper was a photo of a semi overtaking a car around a corner on double white lines. i don't think it is just p platers who need tougher laws, but truckies too. we can't hold a mobile phone while it is on speaker phone, but they can hold a CB radio.

[Savage Bliss]

On the cheap

Exactly we all will. Those whom have sh*t for brains forfeit their right to have nice things. Kick em' all in the junk i say. Really really hard too!

[Kinks]

Things like skid pan days should pushed by the RTA so a person does not wig out at the first sign of lost traction.

Absolutely.

When I bought my R31 I had no idea how to control a slide, not literally but if it did something unpredictable on me I would have made a meal of it for sure.

After a 3 stage Aaron McGill course and a couple of Fatz Drift Days, however, I had it down pat. You need everything to be a reflex when it comes to car control, you shouldn't have to think about it because you don't have time to think about it when it matters most.

I probably drove that thing sideways around the street more than I should have, but it was absolutely no effort and felt like the most natural thing in the world. It was pretty crazy in the wet, too

[mad082]

I probably drove that thing sideways around the street more than I should have, but it was absolutely no effort and felt like the most natural thing in the world. It was pretty crazy in the wet, too

my point exactly. you have to show them enough to be able to control it, but not enough that they do it everywhere.

[Rezz]

that does. especially if they live out of town and have to drive through a 100 zone. all that would do is cause road rage on the highway. and when you had your p's did you ever overtake someone on the highway that was doing 85 in a 100 zone? and did you break the speed limit in the process. limiting the cars to about 140-150 is a more sensible idea. or have them limited by gps, so that when in a 60kmh area that can't go more than say 70kmh. you would have to have it just above the legal limit or you would end up with more p platers being punched off the road by semi drivers who are running late.

also, on the cover of the local paper was a photo of a semi overtaking a car around a corner on double white lines. i don't think it is just p platers who need tougher laws, but truckies too. we can't hold a mobile phone while it is on speaker phone, but they can hold a CB radio.

I used the 80km/h speed limiter' and 'zero tolerance DD Policing' as an example of how heavy-handed you'd have to be to *literally* stop these deaths from occuring... it was a bit of a rhetorical question/senario really.

We could all drive around in really big Scalextric cars on slotted roads and just use a touch screen to tell the car where we want to go and it does everything automatically... viola! 0 roadtoll, and we still get to go where we want.

[monkeykplunk]

The other big problem is, with fuel getting more and more expensive, people are selling their 6cyl cars and going for smaller, more efficient cars which have less safety features and the like.

People don't realise that the Charade or Excel they're buying their kids cause it seems so cheap and will be a small reliable car for them to drive around could also kill them if they are unlucky enough to be hit from front or side on in an accident.

There was an accident out the front of one of my houses back when I was 21. It was the most horrifying thing I've ever seen. And my natural reaction to jump the fence and go help made it worse when I saw the victim close up and had to listen to her screams for weeks afterwards in my head.

That kind of shit really wakes you up when you think your fairly invincible on the roads.

[racsov500]

"You can't drink until you're 18, you can't vote until you're 18 and you can't go to war before you're 18, but you can be in charge of a lethal weapon as a child,'' Mr Scruby said.

one year cleary makes a difference

17yo is a child!? come off it how can you be a child one day and BAM adult the next?

f**king spanners

[SKY031]

I love the way the media milk statistics to suit their needs.

In Victoria, where the minimum age for P-plate licence holders is 18, seven drivers aged 17 to 20 were killed in the first seven months of this year.

According to the TAC crash database, this year Victoria has seen a 200% increase in the amount of road deaths for the the 16 to 17 year age group.

[AndyMac]

This was always going too happen.

Young drivers are learning on cars with alot more safety features then what cars where available with 10 years ago.

Alot of my mates and myself learnt on cars without power steering, without ABS, without 4 pot brakes, etc, etc, etc.

Whilst none of these are "bad" it does take away a certain learning of what a car feels like when its about too loose grip or other similar issue.

I can't see a solution too that thou....

[VB-]

This was always going too happen.

Young drivers are learning on cars with alot more safety features then what cars where available with 10 years ago.

Alot of my mates and myself learnt on cars without power steering, without ABS, without 4 pot brakes, etc, etc, etc.

Whilst none of these are "bad" it does take away a certain learning of what a car feels like when its about too loose grip or other similar issue.

I can't see a solution too that thou....

yeh i kinda agree with you here. im nearly 18 now, and leanred to drive in a variety of cars (daewoo lanos, suzuki jimny, EA falcon, VR commy, and now my own VL NA 5 speed), most with did have power steering, which doesnt mean much anyway, but no ABS, shit brakes, and most didnt have insurance either (you leanr not to stack real quick) so i'm learning to look at everything, drive slow etc, just generally being very cautious, without being too cautious that im going to cause more accidents. i see how dangerous things are, how much i lack ability, and i cant wait to go do some advanced driving courses, hopefully within a fortnight of getting my Ps.

i've come to realise now why my parents were always on at me so severly about staying back so much from other cars and braking early. when i would be with friends, and i think they would be a safe distance, but then i was told to stay much further back when driving with parents, and i kinda appreciate being made to do so. this is a stark contrast to a mate of mine, whose first car was a 34 GTt, so he has no problem in the world brakin late etc, but he doesnt realise that not every other car can brake like him, and me tellin him doesnt seem to change that.

now im just counting the days till some bogan in a VH commodore is tailgating him in the wet, hes gonna do who he normally does, brake late and hard, and get slammed fair up his arse lol.

but the thing is, its no one thing that causes accidents, its a combination too many things, like driving experience, knowing the roads, weather, physical state (drugs/alcohol/tired/sick), sheer luck, and the biggest of all, common sense (severely lacking in many a ppl)

[R31Nismoid]

that just shows that p platers in NSW are the worst in the country. as they said, NSW p plate crashes went up with these laws, in other states they dropped. blame it on the drivers, not the politicians.

its too early at least in Vic to say thats the case

[floody]

exxxactly. what the government fails to see when they implement blanket bans, is that sports/performance cars also have upgraded safety features to deal with what the car is capable of. sure skylines, silvias, supras etc are high powered cars and can do 0-100 quicker than an average commo etc... but the safety features in them far outtweigh compared to falcons, commodores n shit.

i'd rather be in my car, knowing there is safety features to deal with sketchy situations compared to something else.

What a load of tired old crap.

I'd love to see the data that suggests a typical skyline is any safer than its equivalent local product. If you're talking R34 vs a VL or a similarly pointless comparo then maybe its true...

More people died because more people crashed; the newspapers will happily push for the car bans to sell papers, and happily publish nonsense speculation of the opposing view when it becomes clear that people are sick of hearing about the evils of performance cars.

[Midol]

No it wont, give them the skills to drive properly. Photos are part of our training, but it doesnt give anyone any skills to get out of a mess either they or someone else put them in.

I've been considering doing a defensive driving course but I still don't know what they consist of.

How much are they generally and what is taught?

[dangerous_daveo]

I've been considering doing a defensive driving course but I still don't know what they consist of.

How much are they generally and what is taught?

Depends on which one you do, and who you do it with. Our basic one for shools etc is half theory, half practical. There is NO skidpan training at all. We do proper emergency braking in wet, in many different cars some are good, others are rubbish. We do a small circuit, to make sure they get their hands right, and their vision raised. Then we do an emergency braking lane change, where most people lock up and go the wrong way even tho we have said 50% braking. By the end of it most people have worked this out. We also do the thing with the beer goggles, show them what a real standard drink is, show them what happens with tailgating, how to check your tyre pressure, how to check your tyre wear etc. That course is from memory about $200, unless the court system sends you there...

But to prove the point, Roma up here in QLD has a higher than average P plate drive crash/death rate. So the town got together and decided no one passes until they have done a defencive driving course (happens to be our one) and the death rate has drop dramaticly, I think almost to 0. So it does work... And remember this is qld. No P plates have to be shown, P platers can do the 110kmh speed limit etc.

Roma also give their drink drivers an option of pay the big fines, or pay us to do a course, which has specifically been designed for drink drivers. The figures with that are interesting too. Seems the ones that just pay the fine get done again, the others who have done the course dont. (that course is basically a simulation, with a wheel and big screens etc)

And rezz, the whole over confidence thing is from back in the day with the skidpans. No one really uses them for their basic course anymore. Our skidpan (advanced) course cant be done if you are under 21 and havent done the basic course.