Stock To 1bar Boost

[mad082]

there are also a few things you can do to help the life of the stock turbo at higher boost. you can run colder plugs to drop the temps slightly, and richen the afr's up. this also drops the temp.

richening up the mixtures does drop the power, but if you are winding the boost up by a fair bit over the previous setting you will still see a power gain.

[ellie]

As beer baron said, it really is all about thermal stress! Turbos don't just blow from high boost but the by product of high pressure (and a turbo working out of its efficientcy range) is "heat"! Good supporting mods and a little bit fat in the tune should keep tempts down for a streeter. On the track= forget it!

But . . . . Judging by the original post, he has only an exhaust and just wants to boost it to its max potential without support. Big NO!

Isn't thier something about the standard turbo only has a 270 degree thrust bearing and if you really want 1Bar< you should really have a 360 degree bearing?

[AndrewD]

i have to say I dont buy the 14psi=blown turbo myth. Providing you keep exhaust temp under control, the car is tuned well and things are generally in good condition 14psi should be fine for a squirt every now and then.

as for the cam gears. andrewd, he's talking about adjustable cam gears. i can't say i've ever seen replacement cam gears tha weren't adjustable so I guess he assumed you could figure that out. obviously just fitting them doesn't do shit, they need to be tuned. on my GTR power went from 220kw atw to 247kw atw purely though cam gear adjustment. midrange was up around 30kw from about 3500rpm upwards.

andrewd, a little bit of personal advicee. you may not like 31nismoid, but have your wits about you and recognise that he is a long standing, respected member and moderator of this forum. you on the other hand have been a member here for just under 1 month and so far have not contributed much at all so lay off the personal attacks (to nismoid or anyone else for that matter) as things will progress very simply from there. warning, warning, ban.

I had figured that out. Im not stupid. But he should explicitly define that adjustable cam gears do need to be played with not just 'get' them. Ive played with adjustable intake and exhaust cams and even modified a cbr600 engine to accomodate independant variable valve timing for intake and exhaust cam phasing.

i didnt say i didnt like nismoid but as far as hold my trap when i see something blatently obvious as pure crap. You can forget it. If you dont like my posts or my advice then dont take it.

Some background information. Im a race engineer designing high performance turbo applications for high speed and high specific output motors. Think of it as you will.

If you want to decide if he can run 14 pound then bring out the compressor and turbine maps and do it for real. What is the efficiency of the standard turbos at that pressure ratio? whats the corrected shaft speed? Weigh up the increase in compressor outlet temperature and pressure and see if there is a decent increase in massflow and its effects on timing. I could go on.. but Beer doesnt want the advice of an engineer.

Personally i dont care when it comes time for my car ill take peoples advice and judge it on its merits. Then make my own decision.

Edited October 14, 2006 by AndrewD

[tridentt150v]

I had figured that out. Im not stupid. But he should explicitly define that adjustable cam gears do need to be played with not just 'get' them. Ive played with adjustable intake and exhaust cams and even modified a cbr600 engine to accomodate independant variable valve timing for intake and exhaust cam phasing.

i didnt say i didnt like nismoid but as far as hold my trap when i see something blatently obvious as pure crap. You can forget it. If you dont like my posts or my advice then dont take it.

Some background information. Im a race engineer designing high performance turbo applications for high speed and high specific output motors. Think of it as you will.

If you want to decide if he can run 14 pound then bring out the compressor and turbine maps and do it for real. What is the efficiency of the standard turbos at that pressure ratio? whats the corrected shaft speed? Weigh up the increase in compressor outlet temperature and pressure and see if there is a decent increase in massflow and its effects on timing. I could go on.. but Beer doesnt want the advice of an engineer.

Personally i dont care when it comes time for my car ill take peoples advice and judge it on its merits. Then make my own decision.

AndrewD, its a pity you are so antagonistic in your approach, because with your engineering background and your experience you could be a real help to many people on this forum. But unless your communication skills mollify, I'm afraid you will make more enemies than friends. And that is a real shame because SAU needs and is willing to accept all the help it can get. The strength of SAU is its members.

You could be [and have the knowledge to be] a respected helpful contributor.

[Links]

* goes to get popcorn *..

Sooo.. munch munch.. whats going on here..

Anyways - I believe that the GTR's run the same boost on both turbos, and as they both have an actuator plumbed directly off the compressor - they are both running the same boost which is i'm guessing 10psi each or whatever by default anyways..

with this heat, I would have thought it's probably good to keep the temps down anyways so maybe run 12psi.. spend a bit of money getting the cam's tuned.. and you should have a good summer..

Out of interest will the ambient air temp make much of a diff on the turbo's life?

Edited October 14, 2006 by Links

[AndrewD]

AndrewD, its a pity you are so antagonistic in your approach, because with your engineering background and your experience you could be a real help to many people on this forum. But unless your communication skills mollify, I'm afraid you will make more enemies than friends. And that is a real shame because SAU needs and is willing to accept all the help it can get. The strength of SAU is its members.

You could be [and have the knowledge to be] a respected helpful contributor.

Nah its ok, im just having a bit of fun. They can give it back if they want

Im just annoyed at the advice people give thats falous. I guess my approach wasnt warranted. Next time i'll bring the flowers rather than the boxing gloves

[R31Nismoid]

Why would you fit an adjustable cam gear and not adjust it?

I dont care who you are, or what you do.

Fitting a gear and adjusting it (tuning involes things like this) is what one would do.

Its not "total and utter crap", by you saying that your showing how little you know about the RB26, and how to get the most out of it.

[MrStabby]

I had figured that out. Im not stupid. But he should explicitly define that adjustable cam gears do need to be played with not just 'get' them.

If you've figured that out, then why did you say "They do squat!"? Wouldnt it be more helpful and accurate to say "They do squat until you adjust them".

Ive played with adjustable intake and exhaust cams and even modified a cbr600 engine to accomodate independant variable valve timing for intake and exhaust cam phasing.

So you have experience with a cbr600, but what about RBs? Have you played with cam timing on the them?

i didnt say i didnt like nismoid but as far as hold my trap when i see something blatently obvious as pure crap. You can forget it. If you dont like my posts or my advice then dont take it.

Its only "pure crap" with your false interpretation about the gear adjustment - one that you appear to be selecting.....

Some background information. Im a race engineer designing high performance turbo applications for high speed and high specific output motors. Think of it as you will.

If you want to decide if he can run 14 pound then bring out the compressor and turbine maps and do it for real. What is the efficiency of the standard turbos at that pressure ratio? whats the corrected shaft speed? Weigh up the increase in compressor outlet temperature and pressure and see if there is a decent increase in massflow and its effects on timing. I could go on.. but Beer doesnt want the advice of an engineer.

Beer has no need of maps or engineer's opinion as the engineering has already been done and tested many times. The real-world information is well known.

Kot

[rb26s13]

Has anyone got a compressor map for the stock turbo?

Does anyone actually have any idea or are we all just talking shit about what the guy next to us has said?

The GTR runs half total boost on each turbo. So by my calculations, that would mean the stock turbos WILL blow up if they run more than 7.5psi each. Holy shit, and here I was thinking that 10-12psi each was more of a realistic maximum for each one.

f**k im sick of hearing this half theory... goin buy your theory you can bolt two stock T25g's (that handle 15psi each) off a sr20 onto your rb26 and pump 15psi thru each turbo making a total of 30psi thru two stock shitty sr20 turbo's..

run 13ish psi max.

some people have had good luck witht here turbo's and run over 1 bar for a year with out them blowing

others have been unlucky and run 13-14psi for a short period of time and they have gone.. its luck of the draw

Edited October 14, 2006 by rb26s13

[AndrewD]

If you've figured that out, then why did you say "They do squat!"? Wouldnt it be more helpful and accurate to say "They do squat until you adjust them".

So you have experience with a cbr600, but what about RBs? Have you played with cam timing on the them?

Its only "pure crap" with your false interpretation about the gear adjustment - one that you appear to be selecting.....

Beer has no need of maps or engineer's opinion as the engineering has already been done and tested many times. The real-world information is well known.

Kot

Thats hilarious. Was that supposed to offend?

I dont care if beer or anyone else on here wants advice because they wont get it. Maybe i should dish out crap. You tend to agree with that.

[sinistaGTR]

So i guess from all of this ninja42 can probably guess that 1 bar of boost isnt safe or if he wants to try it go nuts but the turbos might not like it lol.

[Beer Baron]

mate i dont have any problem with you. i dont care if you're a gingerbeer or not, it's not the point. I simply offered you a small nugget of advice which is that on here credibility is earnt, not taken. After having been a member here for a couple of weeks you decided to have a little crack at nismoid. You can have a little crack at me too but it wont get you too far.

we are always willing ot hear new points of view but there are far better ways of expressing them mate.

as for me deciding if he can run 14pound or not that's up to him, not me. I'll decide if I can run 14psi or not. and I can tell you the power increase per 1psi increase up to that point is still very good. The air intake temp at that point does not suggest that they are past their peak effeciencey.

as for the cam gears well they are pretty cheap and dont take much dyno time to set-up so I thought I'd try them for myself. Like I said around 30rwkw gaim from around 1 and a half hours spent adjusting and testing them.

[GeeTR]

.. tension, i always was the one to break it by saying something...

*shuffle - cough*

[khunjeng]

Cam gears all the way! was putting mine on when I do the timing belt soon...the rb25/6 cars I have seen on the dyno after instal with these have seen some good 20rwkw+ gains...after seeing that I thought its a must.

as for the talking shit about stuff u dont understand...I have 2 meetings a day dediced to people like that

[Kaido]

Cam gears all the way! was putting mine on when I do the timing belt soon...the rb25/6 cars I have seen on the dyno after instal with these have seen some good 20rwkw+ gains...after seeing that I thought its a must.

Whoa, 20rwkw from cam gears on an RB25? Please elaborate further, are we talking even w/ stock turbo and stock cams? I thought it was generally accepted that stock cam gear position was optimal, even with poncams... As it is, I was under the impression we could only adjust the exhaust side due to the intake-side VTC.