Car Stalling And Won't Idle

[Cubes]

Good stuff Mad..

Fingers crossed that economy improves.

[AdamsR33]

well i think i may have found the source of my problems..... #crosses fingers#

i have a cracked oil breather hose on the head (the one from the intake pipe to the passengers side rocker cover). this would've been broken when i got my manifold studs replace a few weeks back. so i've replaced that, and then i also found that my pcv valve grommet was split. so basically i had 2 vaccum leaks. getting a new grommet today, so hopefully that will be the end of my issues.

Lets hope so, could you do us a favor and post some pics, as i have no idea where these hoses and stuff are. Thanks and good luck!

[mad082]

will take pics when i do it. the oil breather hose is simple. there are 2 hoses that come out of the top of the rocker covers. 1 of them was split. the pcv valve comes out of the drivers side rocker cover and goes into the plenum. its near the radiator bleed valve. but i will post pics.

[Cubes]

Swapped out PFC and crank angle sensor today.

No change.

[J_Red33]

Damn that sucks, well that only leaves 2 things for you. Coils or wiring. Don't you hate it when the last thing you change turns out to be the problem.

[rmahnovetsky]

Just read this whole thread, glad I got here before it got any bigger .. This issue sound exactly like mine. My idle was really bad last weekend in traffic at the gold coast - temp probably over 30 deg, even at 800 rpm idle I got irratic idle. If I set my idle to 900rpm I don't notice any problems at all. If I set it to 700 rpm I would be lucky to get around the block without a problem. Cold days usually fine. With summer just around the corner my idle going to have to be around 850 rpm to avoid the problem.

One thing I do notice is when I let go of the accelerator somethings it will stop at 1000 rpm and gently go to idle and sometimes it just falls past base idle rpm and then finds idle. If I knew what controlled the stopping at 1000 rpm then that be a problem.

I just replaced my O2 sensor with a ford el one, still didn't fix my problem.

To try and find the problem, I reckon one way to tackle it would be to use a datascan software and record when your idle is running well and when your idle is acting up and compare the two. You should see a difference somewhere in the log. If I had a laptop I would do this myself.

Edited October 22, 2006 by rmahnovetsky

[Cubes]

It may be of interest to some of you that the PFC has a standard idle of 900rpm and 950rpm with the a/c on for th R33 RB25DET.

What you are seeing is the fuel cut recovery rpm. Fuel is cut until a certian RPM then fuel is activated. This is controlled by the AAC valve; if its slightly gummy or the solanoid isn't correctly working you may have the occasional issue with the fuel cut recovery being caught in time as not to have the car almost stall. The R33 RB25DET PFC runs a default value of 1000rpm and 1100rpm with the a/c on.

This value in the pfc can be bumped up (~1300-1400rpm) to prevent those atmo bov stalls.

On another note, the stock ecu in my old R32 always had a funny idle. It wasn't until I fitted up the PFC that idle became perfect. However, with the pfc idle must be set correctly.

The PFC contains an idle value; disconnect the aac plug and set idle so that it's just under but doesn't go over the idle value within the pfc. Reconnect the plug, init the pfc and have it do its idle relearn. Providing the AAC valve and its solanoid is working correctly idle should be perfect.

[rmahnovetsky]

Well it is good to know that the PFC has a base idle of 900 rpm. I alway thought 800 rpm was too high for idle, guees I was wrong. If I set my idle to 900 rpm I doubt I would ever have a problem. Though to me it would seem like a patch.

Found this cool thread to find a leak - seems like a great way to find one. http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread/158784 . You could be sure there are no leaks left after this test.

[Cubes]

Definitely a good link.

Bucket of soapy water would no doubt aid in finding those leaks one can't hear.

[J_Red33]

Just read this whole thread, glad I got here before it got any bigger .. This issue sound exactly like mine. My idle was really bad last weekend in traffic at the gold coast - temp probably over 30 deg, even at 800 rpm idle I got irratic idle. If I set my idle to 900rpm I don't notice any problems at all. If I set it to 700 rpm I would be lucky to get around the block without a problem. Cold days usually fine. With summer just around the corner my idle going to have to be around 850 rpm to avoid the problem.

One thing I do notice is when I let go of the accelerator somethings it will stop at 1000 rpm and gently go to idle and sometimes it just falls past base idle rpm and then finds idle. If I knew what controlled the stopping at 1000 rpm then that be a problem.

I just replaced my O2 sensor with a ford el one, still didn't fix my problem.

To try and find the problem, I reckon one way to tackle it would be to use a datascan software and record when your idle is running well and when your idle is acting up and compare the two. You should see a difference somewhere in the log. If I had a laptop I would do this myself.

This is rather interesting the problem you are having as I was having issues with my revs dropping below normal idle the same way & all I did was change my O2 sensor to fix it. There was no change to how the car ran when it was disconnected, it was completely stuffed.

I was also having issues with stalling & had to keep the revs up on take off to stop it dying. The fuel pump low/idle mode also has a part to play here & I do get a little bit of bogging down still at low revs, but I can ride the clutch on a hill with no throttle now, which was previously impossible & the revs no longer drop below normal idle when free reving. I have mine set at about 850. Torque is also greatly improved.

Out of curiosity the EL sensor you replaced the original with, was it the same style sensor? That is if you looked at the sensor end that goes into the exhaust did it look exactly the same as the original?

I know that different brands have different styles of sensors (Bosch & NTK being the 2 main players), but for the same brand sensor it is imperative that it is the same style sensor, otherwise you can still have issues.

Also there is more than one wiring configuration, so just because it's got 3 wires doesn't mean it's the exact same setup.

Edited October 22, 2006 by JazzaR33

[Cubes]

I've been putting off coils for some time now. I've always know they were on their way out but wow..

I chopped up a spare coil pack cover, mounted the ignitor in its origional position, waited for night to fall and got the car nice and hot.

Drove home, popped the hood and on idle I could see a really nice lightning show. Quite amazing how much it sparks out; I am so suprised my idle at that time wasn't affected not to mention the drive prior where it copped a few full rpm rev's on around 11psi with no signs off ign breakdown or pop.

It was sparking out enough to be very worried not to place my fingers any where near it... Yes I've been booted by elec. ign before and the boot was 'worse' than the mains power boot/humm I have also had.

So.. before I go any furthur I will replace my coils.

Oh yes.. The car now seems near perfect to drive with the only very slight occasional lug/lean problem. Fix coils then I'll get back to it, fingers crossed it will dissapear. Jacks me how the problem comes and goes a little.

A mate of mine has his coils also stuffed; 16psi it farts like nothing else. His idle, off boost etc all appears fine. However I am only running 11psi so if he were to drop his boost he may not even experience any ign break down yet so... my coils may be worse than his.

[AdamsR33]

I've been putting off coils for some time now. I've always know they were on their way out but wow..

I chopped up a spare coil pack cover, mounted the ignitor in its origional position, waited for night to fall and got the car nice and hot.

Drove home, popped the hood and on idle I could see a really nice lightning show. Quite amazing how much it sparks out; I am so suprised my idle at that time wasn't affected not to mention the drive prior where it copped a few full rpm rev's on around 11psi with no signs off ign breakdown or pop.

It was sparking out enough to be very worried not to place my fingers any where near it... Yes I've been booted by elec. ign before and the boot was 'worse' than the mains power boot/humm I have also had.

So.. before I go any furthur I will replace my coils.

Oh yes.. The car now seems near perfect to drive with the only very slight occasional lug/lean problem. Fix coils then I'll get back to it, fingers crossed it will dissapear. Jacks me how the problem comes and goes a little.

A mate of mine has his coils also stuffed; 16psi it farts like nothing else. His idle, off boost etc all appears fine. However I am only running 11psi so if he were to drop his boost he may not even experience any ign break down yet so... my coils may be worse than his.

Well cubes i hope this fixes your problem, only thing is though i've just replaced mine with brand new splitfires, so i don't think this is my problem.

The reason you get a bigger bang from your car than mains power is because of the amperage, thats the power side electricity.

[Cubes]

Yep when I first was booted by elec ign. I was around 17. Completely did not expect such a boot.

[J_Red33]

Well cubes i hope this fixes your problem, only thing is though i've just replaced mine with brand new splitfires, so i don't think this is my problem.

The reason you get a bigger bang from your car than mains power is because of the amperage, thats the power side electricity.

Many people have been killed by mains power electricity, don't think anyone has ever been killed by ignition coils however. Sure it'll give you a boot (I've experienced it several times & it can hurt) but because it is relatively LOW current, it won't do any serious damage. If you've ever had a good zap of static electricity it's basically the same thing, high volts minimal current.

Mains power however has very high current capability & will kill you if you earth out good enough. Personally I'd rather try holding on to an ignition coil for a minute than ever try touching mains power, would get the heart racing, but that's about all.

If all you got was a light zap from mains Cubes you were a very lucky boy.

Good to see you've found your problem too

Edited October 23, 2006 by JazzaR33

[Cubes]

Yes thats it Jazza..

The mains power didn't hurt as much, just a really strange humm wobble through my body, if that makes sense. Still hurt and instantly had what felt like my heart jumping out of my chest.

The bang of the elec ign still scares me, but yes I would prefer to be booted by that then be electrifried by mains.

A massive boot of static electricity is a good description.

Back in school did you ever play(zap) hehe with those 'clickers' from gas hot water systems? They used to give a nice little zap, used to hurt a little.

[mad082]

nothing like getting a zap from 240v. i touched the back of a power point by accident a few years back and it felt like all thescles in my finger were tensing then un-tensing really fast.

as for the car, so far so good. haven't had a chance to post pics yet as i haven't had the laptop at home.

[Link]

For those who run with no coilpack cover, where do you put your ignitor module?

I will take mine off to see if i can see sparks as well...

[Cubes]

For those who run with no coilpack cover, where do you put your ignitor module?

I will take mine off to see if i can see sparks as well...

Do make sure its secured and earthed as many have learnt the hard way and killed their ignitor by leaving it flop around.

I recently removed my coil pack cover to check the coils, I chopped up a spare cover that was laying around.

I'll be leaving the cover off until I receive the new splitfires.

Std coils have done well. Racked up on the odo 220,000km's in total, a shade over 150,000km's of those being mine.

Be sure its very dark and you have just taken the car for a spin.

Sit and look for little flashes of light.

As I think I said, coils 2, 3 and 4 are arcing out on mine, yet on 11psi it doesn't really pop. Only occasionally, more boost and no doubt they would.

[mad082]

only r32s series 1 r33's have an ignitor pack on the cover. ther series 2 have it on the coils. mine had a mount for a ignitor pack, but has series 2 coils. i couldn've taken the mount off and just screwed it back onto the rocker cover where it normally sits.

[J_Red33]

Yes thats it Jazza..

The mains power didn't hurt as much, just a really strange humm wobble through my body, if that makes sense. Still hurt and instantly had what felt like my heart jumping out of my chest.

The bang of the elec ign still scares me, but yes I would prefer to be booted by that then be electrifried by mains.

A massive boot of static electricity is a good description.

Back in school did you ever play(zap) hehe with those 'clickers' from gas hot water systems? They used to give a nice little zap, used to hurt a little.

Yeah the wobbling effect would be to do with the fact that mains power alternates current back & forth only 50 times a second (ie AC 50Hz) so I could see how that would be the case.

Ignition is several thousand volts, but it's only generated for the smallest fraction of a second & the voltage would be dramatically lower if you were earthing the coil output due to it's relatively miniscule current capability.

Yeah I don't know how many times I got zapped at school, didn't have to get them off of hot water systems though, you could buy the stuff .

only r32s series 1 r33's have an ignitor pack on the cover. ther series 2 have it on the coils. mine had a mount for a ignitor pack, but has series 2 coils. i couldn've taken the mount off and just screwed it back onto the rocker cover where it normally sits.

Well I actually finally looked up on this as have had my ECU out & traced the ignition circuit back to small driver transistors inside, so I knew there was no way it could be directly feeding the coil packs. Not sure that I like the fact the ignitors & coils are combined in 1 package. I may remove my cover just to keep it cooler in the summer.

You can use it without the cover on there the loom is too short to move too much. If you were worried you could always use a cable tie to retain it.