Non-cams Approved Cages

[phunky_monkey]

Hey all,

I heard rumours going around a while ago that in the near future non CAMS approved cages would no longer be eligible for club sprint days. Has anyone else heard any more on this?

Cheers

Dane

[blackrex]

Essentially that rule applies now, with any ROPS system that doesn't meet CAMS/FIA specs being ineligable for use in CAMS events, however, as long as the cage is safe and well made, a scrutineer shouldn't have an issue with it.

[Duncan]

well....there was a long discussion on this in the last 12 months but I couldn't find it searching just then.

Bascially it is up to the scruitineer's discretion as to whether an non-approved cage is legal, which was pointed out means "if you are a scruitineer you would be mad to stick your neck out for a competitor"

Post up if you find the thread I wanted to review it too.

[Roy]

A CAMS approved 4 poitn cage isnt that expensive really.

[phunky_monkey]

Thanks guys.

I'll see if I can track down that other thread and post the link Duncan.

Has anyone been knocked back for a jap bolt in cage on here?

[blackrex]

A friend of mine that runs in the WRX Club sprints has a Jap spec cage that wouldn't comply with CAMS rules as it has bends in the A pillar uprights to wrap around the dash, doesn't have any problems with scrutineering for those events.

[phunky_monkey]

Yeah, I know of another car that runs a similar cage in the WRX/SAU Club sprints and he hasn't had any troubles thus far, so I'd hazard a guess I'd be ok, just want o be positive before I fork out any money. I'm running in the same club sprints though, so I may take my chances.

Thanks mate

[SteveL]

I've done some scrutineering for club sprints, although it's been a few years. Generally a cage is not required as it's meant to be more fun than serious racing (well, that's the theory.....). I doubt they'd worry if it's CAMS approved or not. There are exceptions, eg cars with a sunroof might get a frown from some scrutineers.

[Beer Baron]

my theory is a non-approved cage is surely better than no cage, so for events that dont require ROPS, then a no cage, or non-approved cage should be fine as long as it doesn't detract from the cars safety in any other way.

however, if you dont already have a jap cage, i wouldn't rush out and buy one. I'd do it right the first time and get an approved cage to cover yourself.

[R31Nismoid]

A friend of mine that runs in the WRX Club sprints has a Jap spec cage that wouldn't comply with CAMS rules as it has bends in the A pillar uprights to wrap around the dash, doesn't have any problems with scrutineering for those events.

But with the talk of CAMS wanting the GTR's to run cages due to thier insane lap times, or at least looking into it all... It stands to reason things might be looked at a little more closely if it did happen

Need more info from CAMS/People surrounding it all especially if it gets looked into more

Not sure if it died down, but i remember it being mentioned a while ago

[Snowman]

If you have a crazy fast GT-R and you are doing club sprints with out a cage then you are a tool anyways.

Hang on.....

[phunky_monkey]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Richard: Yeah mate, that's the toss up at the moment. I had planned on going the whole hog, but a friend of mine has recently stripped his car and has a decent cage available for a good price which is what prompted me to ask the question.

Snowy: I agree

[Roy]

Odds are you will be fine. Worst case a scrutineer may tell you to do something about it in the future...or that in x amount of months it will not be allowed. Highly unlikely they will stop you from running.

From there, worst case is just to remove it and you will be right to run without a cage (seems a bit silly really, but there are reasons)

Main thing to worry about is that you have used the correct high tensile bolts with enough thread through the nuts. The exposed thread isn’t pointing towards driver/passenger etc in the event of an accident. The cage is padded as required. The drivers head is sufficiently clear of the cage. You are using suitably sized base plates etc. All the basic good practices...they are more likely to be the reasons they will not allow you to run a cage, not so much the manufacturer. A cage that fails in an accident and impales the driver is more a concern then the crumple zones of the std car...hence the whole flawed any cage is better then no cage argument. You are introducing a lot of steel around occupants which could do more harm then good.

[tacker]

Guys,

i have only just finished studing the FIA rules regarding bolt in cages.

I have even got Correspondence from the J.A.F who are an affiliate member of the FIA, which means that they can approve cages for FIA international events.

The Cusco bolt in cage ( with a straight A pillar ) has this approval from the JAF so it is a FIA aproved International event cage due to the JAF being an affiliate FIA member.

But in saying this it might not meet CAMS approval for local events. Which makes very little sense to me, so i could theoretically run this cage in a FIA GT International event but not in a CAM club day.

go figure

[tacker]

Quick extract of the email i reffered to in the post above.

Dear xxxxx,

In reply to your e-mail of yesterday's date, I confirm that Cusco builds "self-made" rollcages in accordance with 253. 8.1 - 8.3 Appendix J.

For your reference, their website address is " http://www.cusco.co.jp/english/e_cont.html ".

I hope this information would be helpful for you.

Best regards,

--

Fumihiko OBAYASHI

JAF Motorsport

[phunky_monkey]

Troy: thanks mate. Yeah, I'm aware of most of those things, just don't want to purchase one and then be told 'in 3 months you can no longer run these'. Would be a bit of a pain in the arse!

Chris: Thanks for the info mate. I had read your other thread, which I found very interesting. Can I ask where you ordered it from to get it for $1010 AUS delivered to Dubai? Pretty damn cheap!

[predator]

I think you'd find that a correctly installed CAMS approved cage would be cheaper than any big name japanese one.

It's funny when you see all these ex-jap cages go up for sale here.. you know somebody is going to learn the hard way that they've spent a lot on which is really just an expensive ricer extension - as it can't be used in an actual CAMS event, if they get around to attending one.

[phunky_monkey]

See, that's what I'm trying to ascertain. If I can get a full FIA approved cage for around $1100, which can be used in pretty much everything I need it for, it is going to work out a hell of a lot cheaper than forking out 3k on a welded in CAMS approved cage when I'm not actually required to run one, but want to for safety (I'm 6'5", there's not much room between the roof and my head )

[Roy]

I think you'd find that a correctly installed CAMS approved cage would be cheaper than any big name japanese one.

It's funny when you see all these ex-jap cages go up for sale here.. you know somebody is going to learn the hard way that they've spent a lot on which is really just an expensive ricer extension - as it can't be used in an actual CAMS event, if they get around to attending one.

They can be used at CAMS licenced events. It justs depends on what you are doing. If you are goign to rally your GTiR Pulsar then you are no chance. If you are goign to tarmac rally your GTR or EVO, then you have no chance. If you are going to hillclimb, motorkhana or club sprint your car then odds are you will be fine for the immediate and forseeable future.

But the day will come where i suspect they wont be accepted, who knows when that day will be. But you are right, cages are not as expensive as ppl believe. A good quality local cage is often cheaper then the new Jap cages and often only a little more expensive then your 2nd hand cages

Speak to a few cage manufacturers. You dont need to have a welded in cage to be CAMS/FIA compliant. And they sure as hell dont have to cost 3k. Do you want 4 point, side intrusion etc etc. Sure cages can cost 3k and more. But the 4 point i would like, with harness bar is about 1k. Dotn want side intrusion of front arms as it hurts access and isnt a great idea in a street car that gets tracked

[phunky_monkey]

I'm curious as to what quotes you guys have received for cages, as my research shows that it looks to hover around the 3k mark for a comprehensive cage with side intrusion bars etc?