My On-going Dispute With Recent Fines I Received

[Silver_R34_GT-T]

Dont have to answer this if you dont wanna john, but how much $$$ were the fines, and were they any points involved aswell?

[Mr-Toy33]

Dont have to answer this if you dont wanna john, but how much $$$ were the fines, and were they any points involved aswell?

One defect notice - $75.

One fine for not having a modification plate - $225.

Think there is 3 points on the $225 fine and 1 point on the $75.

Legal cost for me = nothing

Court fees = nothing (if and when I win this case).

Court fees = $80 or somethin like that if i loose the case.

Inspection = $86 (had to pay this)

DB testing at Right Price Exhaust = $50.00 (had to pay this)

[Silver_R34_GT-T]

hmm fair enough good luck with it.

[Dynamix]

Just a question, i have been issued a fine, and been defected for having a atmo bov, its a hks ssq so its pretty damn quiet, cant even realy hear it so its not a noise issue. This was quite some time ago, but can anything be done about said fine, eg finding documentation i can carry around in the car if another cop pulls me over and tries to fine me for the same offence? I was issued by the road traffic police a picec of paper with a reference code about emissions when i got pulled over, so that piece of paper was untruthful or missleading? Cheers.

[Nismo_Boy]

Just a question, i have been issued a fine, and been defected for having a atmo bov, its a hks ssq so its pretty damn quiet, cant even realy hear it so its not a noise issue. This was quite some time ago, but can anything be done about said fine, eg finding documentation i can carry around in the car if another cop pulls me over and tries to fine me for the same offence? I was issued by the road traffic police a picec of paper with a reference code about emissions when i got pulled over, so that piece of paper was untruthful or missleading? Cheers.

Some one we know took this fine to court, and won. And to my knowledge the law still hasn’t’ changed.

There is no “law” against ATMO Bov’s. END STORY, what naughty emissions do they let out? None, its air.. Unfortunately the Police choose not to follow on this, and still write tickets. The only thing they legally can defect you for is the noise of the bov. Which would technically fall under undue noise, I’m not aware of any “legal” db Bov limit - Thus it's the officer’s own discission with what’s undue and what’s not

By all means some one can correct me (if you have the “law “to quote), but this has been proven in court and won.

[Col-GTSX]

Josh i still say air brakes on trucks and bus's make more noise that any bov i have ever heard...

So if you were fined for undue noise that would not be far...

[Nismo_Boy]

Damn right those air brakes are louder! I can’t believe they get away with it. I’ve only been defected once for a Bov and at the same time bald tires. I debated the point that there are no harmful emissions, and requested he showed me where it said he could defect me for having it “ATMO”.

He couldn’t do or show anything, which was a surprise seeing it was Traffic Task Force… I ended up with a minor defect, self-clearing 1 point and $75 ticket. Wasn’t worth the time taking it to court over $75 and just 1 point.

[Tango955]

From my understanding they can defect for anything they SUSPECT is non compliant. Regardless of what QT says all gases must vent through the catalitic (spelling) converter. Atmo BOV's do vent crankcase gases to the air. If the cop was performing his duty legally ie. traffic cop conducting a vehicle inspection then I cant see that you have any leg to stand on. Its up to the owner to ensure that the car is legal, there is no onus on the copper to prove anything. I cant see you winning in COurt. If your dads experenced he should be telling you this. Read back through the posts on this site and the others. Its happened many times before.

[Mr-Toy33]

It is the cops duty to inform me of what my car does not apply to on the fine which is stated in the law. the cop has not done this therefore he doesn't have a leg to stand on. now if he did state it on the fine, he would have a case to possibly win. however, QLD Transport passing the vechicle as not defectable and does not require a modification plate as i was also fine for not having one brings to the table what really is and what isnt law and rules of modifying a car.

there seems to be 2 rules/laws here.

one for the cops to go by in handing out cheeries to everyone whenever the feel the need to.

the other for qld transport who are to enforce the qld transport rules and laws more so then the cops.

[Tango955]

Actually from reading your first post the defect notice states that your car must compy with 'any legislation' I read that as your car has to comply with any legislation. I dont read anywhere that it must state the specific legislation. QT dont overule the cops theyre just another enforcement mob. They mainly concentrate on trucks. If you look at the Australian Design Rules it states that any modification made to a vehicle has to be approved (enginered). Yours wernt even though they arnt big mods.

It looks like you got pinged fair and square to me. Hundreds of others here have been done for the same things. Id say you were lucky to get over the pits without further defects, they can defect standard cars FFS. Welcome to the world of traffic fines im sure like most people here youll get others. Keep us posted on the Court thing but dont expect a walk up positive outcome. The judge's questions will go like this.

Judge - did you drive your skyline with a BOV and a pod filter and are you a young male?

You - Yes

Judge - were these items added to your car?

You - yes

Judge - therefore you drove a non compliant car with modifications that were not approved?

You - ahhh yes

Judge - bend over and think happy thoughts.

[dangerous_daveo]

From my understanding they can defect for anything they SUSPECT is non compliant. Regardless of what QT says all gases must vent through the catalitic (spelling) converter. Atmo BOV's do vent crankcase gases to the air. If the cop was performing his duty legally ie. traffic cop conducting a vehicle inspection then I cant see that you have any leg to stand on. Its up to the owner to ensure that the car is legal, there is no onus on the copper to prove anything. I cant see you winning in COurt. If your dads experenced he should be telling you this. Read back through the posts on this site and the others. Its happened many times before.

Doesnt it depend on how your system is hooked up? If you have some funky plumped back catch can arangement, the normal air could be coming out of the atmo bov could it not? Not saying old mates is or isnt set up that way, but point is it could be.

The trick is there is no black and white when it comes to modifications, there are too many different interpretations and different laws for each item.

I think his point is the car was legal, DOT confirmed that it was. I also think 90% of it is the way the cop went about conducting the defects... Im guessing its just to shut the cop down more than anything.

[gun32gtr]

what a bloody w.a.n.k.e.r nothing better. just cause there life suxs dont mean they should bring us down 2...

i had a cop [ull me up and go over my gtr and try to tell me wheels where scrubbing out on guards(WHICH THEY WERNT) aqnd told me if he seen me again he would put me of the road, never heard from him again, seen him plenty of time after

just tryin to be big tuff guy... TOOL

Good luck with ur issue

p.s would be good to have a laywer as me old man aye

[Mr-Toy33]

Judge - did you drive your skyline with a BOV and a pod filter and are you a young male?

You - Yes

Judge - were these items added to your car?

You - yes

Judge - therefore you drove a non compliant car with modifications that were not approved?

You - ahhh yes

Judge - bend over and think happy thoughts.

Ok.... so QLD Transport who are to enforce not just QLD Transport rules and laws but also ADR laws are allowed to say "yeah, your car is legal, run off and have a good day"

yet, the police who enforce QLD Transport rules, laws, etc and probably ADR rules to are allowed to turn around and say "sorry, thats defectable, thats defectable, etc etc" then?

I dont think so.

As for the legislation... go look up the laws in regards to defecting people under legislation that the car doesnt comply to. You will see and note that its been stated that whatever legislation I've broken has to be listed on the defect. The person lookin after this case (lucky for me is my father whos also a lawyer) found this and to this effect is a cause for the case to be won by me.

fact that

a) legislation that i've broken is not listed on the defect/fine

and

b) DOT have given the car the all clear with a letter sent to my father from QLD Transport

gives me the case to win this.

The cop wanted to be a f**kwit which he clearly showed and put across to me has backfired because he didnt do his job properly.

It would just be like a lawyer gettin up stating that

lawyer: judge, this person has broken the legislation qld government introduced 10yrs ago

judge: ok, if you say so then he can go to jail

well, sorry... doesnt work like that.

in court, the lawyer has to state what legislation has been broken.

in this case... the same applies to a cop when handing out a defect stating that legislation has been broken.

[Tango955]

So some how or other "any legislation' doesnt cover any legislation. And the government just happened to let this loophole through and you just happen to be the first person to notice it. I think you have a bit of growing up to do. If your right then every defect notice ever issued is illegal. I dont think so!

[Nismo_Boy]

So some how or other "any legislation' doesnt cover any legislation. And the government just happened to let this loophole through and you just happen to be the first person to notice it. I think you have a bit of growing up to do. If your right then every defect notice ever issued is illegal. I dont think so!

More so the Police are just illiterate fu*k tards that assume the general public don’t know any better and wont take the issue to court.

I think you just need to learn the law, and the legal loopholes people pay solicitors to get around.

Unless your one of these more "ethical" people..

[Tango955]

No but I have been active in the car scene since 89 and ive seen many people defected and many people fight it. Ive never seen anyone win. I think the police would be reasonably on top of the legitimacy of a legal document such as a defect notice. They have been doing this for a while apparently, and apparently they have a thing called a 'legal department' to stop them doing things wrong. Get serious guys. this is everyday bread and butter stuff for them. And dude if your dad hasnt pointed this out then offence not intended but i certainly wouldnt pay him for legal representation. If you want to be smart read back through all of the other defect posts, use the search function ring legal aid etc. etc. because your just going to embarass yourself and piss off the judge who will then smack you with a bigger fine.

As I said, your young male and you drive a skyline welcome to reality.

[Nismo_Boy]

Tango, no offence buddy, but reality is I have won every single time in court for the last 4 ½ years on traffic matters, with the exception of once, which I pled guilty but is now in the appeals due to extreme hardship (not defect/hoon related). This also includes suing Queensland Transport, and winning.

I’ve lost around 30 points, and had my license suspended 3 times over the same period. If I hadn’t fort the more important matters I doubt very much I would even have a license still.

This of course has come at a huge financial cost, so it’s understandable perhaps your more “normal” person can’t afford decent solicitors, as well as becoming a very well marked person with the local Police in town.

[Tango955]

Just trying to stop a young player from falling on his face. Out of curiosity have you ever beaten a defect and if so can you give details?

[«Cyph3r»]

I think josh got off a defect for too loud in his dads porsche a year or two ago??

Edited November 7, 2006 by «Cyph3r»

[Nismo_Boy]

Correct. Defect, un-due noise, they had a two for one “Josh” special that night. Car was creating undue noise from the exhaust, thus have a defect as well. Take into account this is a 130db exhaust system… We maxed the DB machine out testing the car, so it’s possible it could have been more.

Obviously fines are at the officer’s own discretion, more so the un-due ones. We were able to prove the officer’s opinion was wrong due to a few reasons.

1) This being the most important: The Porsche had a current RWC, not even a week old as my Father was considering selling the car. So in theory, if the RWC was so current why is it defect-able? It shouldn’t be.

It’s not relevant of the DB reading, the Police never took their own reading at the time of issue, or summonsed me during the court case.

2) Their version of the night, the distance as to where they heard the un-due noise, exact spot ect were incorrect. I went to where it happened with a camera and tape measure.

This didn’t go down well, as the Police officer’s story did not look good. An example is, they said something like “when driving 150 meters towards the round – o – bout” It was more like 10 meters – How can you determine how loud a car is pulling out in traffic with a round – o- bout almost straight away? You can’t.

3) Where they were parked was incorrect at the time of the offence, as well as where they pulled me up. Again their story was incorrect.

4) The fact this officer had tried to bring me down in the past, and with all the false information in their story it just looks like a personal attack to me.

5) The fact the car wasn’t mine, and who owned it played apart from a media point of view, if I was found guilty and the story went out as a personal attack, the local Police would look stupid.

With the above, and a damn good solicitor we pulled it off. The above is basically a very rough run down. When in fact, this was a 12month case.

I’ve only had two other defects, one for bald tires and atmo bov – Minor Defect, $75 and one point and another for bald tires – Minor defect, $75 and one point.

I never fort these as to be honest, they were only $75 and one point. I couldn’t see the point in spending $5k+ to contest such a small fine, and argue there is nothing wrong with a atmo bov, can’t argue bald tires how ever. Plus I had enough points on my license at both times.

I can’t offer any advice on how to get off defects unfortunately Tango, as each case is different.

I guess take note of everything, carry a tape recorder which I normally do if I hear of any blitz on – If a cop is being a right pain the in the rear, they will normally back down in court if you have your own copy of this. The last thing they want is it ending up on ACA or Today Tonight.

And as originally mentioned by Mr-Toy33 make sure the fine/ticket/paper is correctly filled out with all information.