Awd Rb25det?

[raZ1911]

would putting the AWD RB25DET be better in peformance rarther than the RWD RB25DET cos its AWD Vs a RWD?

[IanB]

My 2c

Just buy a 32 GTR?

[raZ1911]

My 2c

Just buy a 32 GTR?

dont have enough cash and i want a R33

[xRHETTx]

would putting the AWD RB25DET be better in peformance rarther than the RWD RB25DET cos its AWD Vs a RWD?

Well your car would still be 4wd then wouldn't it?

Instead of 2wd with all the weight of a 4wd without the grip?

[blind_elk]

They are all RB25DETs - so same performance (engine-wise). The differences will come in the weight penalty a AWD has, but that will be offset by the AWD drive and handling.

[raZ1911]

would the weight kill me or would the AWD pull me through to be faster off the line so it doesnt matter?

[gts-4 dreamer]

first of all i think the guys around here must be getting bored of answering these questions, it pops up every few months or so. Since I was one of them here you go.

It would be cheaper to buy the 32r, than to build a gts4-33 into a decent "baby R".

eng swap > 25det or 25det NEO or 26 + management + any power mods you want to start with like some essentials > ic exhuast etc.

edit >> forgot to mention supporting systems, fuel pump would need some uprating, doubt the n/a fuel pump would be good enough, umm think the radiator might be close to the same anyways but something to check as n/a's need stuff all cooling compared to the t cars.

trany ? dunno if the n/a 33 had the same box but i think they did and should be ok, except the clutch would probably need some uprating.

4 to 5 stud conversion on the hubs + brake upgrades > rotors > calipers > discs

tuning budget ?

engy certs to get it all nice and street legal.. hmmm few $$$ there... close to 33r country eh ? and you end up with a modded gts4 instead of an R

Edited October 23, 2006 by gts-4 dreamer

[gts-4 dreamer]

straight line punt ?... after spending the dollars she would be like a lesser capable car then an r (given the same money?), so potential for red line dump starts and whatever your power to wieght + phat white boy shifting skilz after that eh

[JaiJai]

dont have enough cash and i want a R33

Id imagine it still be cheaper then do it with a gtst

[funkymonkey]

altho blind elk's car (R32 GTS4 with RB25DET froma stagea) is proof that it is possible...

I've costed the whole thing up (down to sourcing and shipping a Laurel halfcut in one of our containers, and doing most of the engine swap work myself) and even at minimal cost, it was far easier and cheaper to get rid of the GTS4 and buy a GTR.

You have to remember that Stagea or Laurel engines (ie AWD RB25DET's) don't have aftermaket tuning support like power FC's etc. Also R32 RB20DET's share a lot more with RB26DETT's than they do with RB25's as they were both designed around the same time (ie with injector positioning etc). So naturally the logical thing to do is to put an RB26 in if you're gonna do an engine swap.

The ENR33 has similar gear ratios to a NC34 (stagea or laurel AWD RB25DET), wheras the BNR32 and HNR32 have different ratios again.

So at the end of the day I strapped a HKS2530 to my RB20DET, and enjoy my GTS4 for what it is, a fun getaround car that can switch from AWD to RWD at the flick of a switch. If you want a powerful AWD car... buy a GTR, if you live in teh snow and want something that won't bog down, buy an R33 GTS4.

To answer your Q's:

Question 1:

Yes

Question 2:

Yes

Question 3:

around 3k minimum, 6k if you don't have a workshop and work for an import company

Question 4:

not any more than a more easier and cheaper RB25DET powered R32 GTSt. R32 AWD is about as useful as tits on a bull, unless you're into drag racing and towing stuff.

[pixel8r]

Just buy a stagea (a whole one)

or, more seriously, you could just go the GTR.

Stageas do also come in manual, meaning you can still tune using powerfc for these.

Otherwise for the auto stagea engine/gearbox you can still use piggybacks (SAFC/SITC etc) which work well. Many stagea autos with 200+awkw which in a skyline would be very quick.

but for the money I reckon a GTR is the better option. Brakes, suspension and everything has all been designed to handle the power and its already AWD and everything so you have the power of the RB26 and the traction of AWD.

Back to the stagea...consider it as a great option for a practical wagon that is still basically a skyline under the bonnet. Its got the AWD system and (front) suspension from the GTR, RB25DET from the gtst(s1) or gtt(s2), and with a few mods can easily produce a nice 200awkw, even with the auto. If you need more space, more doors, or even just more unique-ness, but dont want to give up your interest in skylines & turbos, one word.....stagea!

[raZ1911]

Mm sound like i should just save for a GTR or get a 32 and do it or get a stagea a lot of fussing around to do everything i want with the 33.

Thanks for all your help guys much appreciated.

Edited October 24, 2006 by raZ1911

[gts-4 dreamer]

what are the difference's between the awd rb25det and the rwd rb25dets besides the sump front axles and box ?

I would have thought that most of the bottom and and certainly the top end would be essentially the same motor ?

if so there should be plenty of bolt on products around... even a fair bit of internal's aswell

[blind_elk]

The sump flange is really the only difference, and all it does is prevent you bolting a AWD sump onto a RWD block. All the internals are essentially the same.

I had to re-build mine after it shat a ring - I simply got new pistons, bearings, gaskets for a RB25DET. There was no need to specify that it was the AWD engine.

Sticking a Stagea AWD RB25DET into any non-GTR AWD Skyline is the best bang for your buck that money can buy. I went from a measly 115 awkW (RB20DET) to 180 awkW. The conversion cost me around $7k, but that included a new clutch and flywheel assembly (because the engine was from an auto, and I have a manual) and aftermarket ECU (and cost was no object).

I reckon you should be able to get a half cut for around $3k, and maybe $2k to swap everything over, unless you are mechanically minded enough to do it yourself.

[WhatBrake]

The sump flange is really the only difference, and all it does is prevent you bolting a AWD sump onto a RWD block. All the internals are essentially the same.

I had to re-build mine after it shat a ring - I simply got new pistons, bearings, gaskets for a RB25DET. There was no need to specify that it was the AWD engine.

Sticking a Stagea AWD RB25DET into any non-GTR AWD Skyline is the best bang for your buck that money can buy. I went from a measly 115 awkW (RB20DET) to 180 awkW. The conversion cost me around $7k, but that included a new clutch and flywheel assembly (because the engine was from an auto, and I have a manual) and aftermarket ECU (and cost was no object).

I reckon you should be able to get a half cut for around $3k, and maybe $2k to swap everything over, unless you are mechanically minded enough to do it yourself.

Hey guys, I have an R32 GTS4 and i recently blew my little RB20DET sky high =P oops. (shitty oil pumps i say)

I'm wanting to get a new engine back in there, but obviously don't want to waste money on another RB20.

I was thinking of putting in an RB25DET manual out of a Stagea (or convert to manual if needed), but I was thinking wot IS the difference between an RB25DET RWD engine and a AWD one? really?

From wot ive gathered it the sump studs in different places, but i could always drill that out and modify so perhaps a RWD RB25DET could b bolted straight in with sump modification into my GTS4, perhaps by modifying my RB20 factory sump or? Has anyone done this or heard about it?

It's obviously cheaper n easier to source a RWD RB25DET than one out of a generally newer Stagea, that are generally autos too...

If anyone could clear this up for me conclusively I will be extremely grateful!!!! =P

RWD RB25DET into GTS4 can it be done? I will do all the work myself with a mate including the engine swap. proficient skills. doable?

Thanks HEAPS guys!

Take it ez

Edited November 13, 2009 by WhatBrake

[bozodos]

Interesting question lol. Well mine has a Stagea RB25DET + gearbox (bought the car with it, but would have love to have seen how on earth they sourced a manual stag series 1 box!)

[JenkiZenki]

Hey guys, I have an R32 GTS4 and i recently blew my little RB20DET sky high =P oops. (shitty oil pumps i say)

I'm wanting to get a new engine back in there, but obviously don't want to waste money on another RB20.

I was thinking of putting in an RB25DET manual out of a Stagea (or convert to manual if needed), but I was thinking wot IS the difference between an RB25DET RWD engine and a AWD one? really?

From wot ive gathered it the sump studs in different places, but i could always drill that out and modify so perhaps a RWD RB25DET could b bolted straight in with sump modification into my GTS4, perhaps by modifying my RB20 factory sump or? Has anyone done this or heard about it?

It's obviously cheaper n easier to source a RWD RB25DET than one out of a generally newer Stagea, that are generally autos too...

If anyone could clear this up for me conclusively I will be extremely grateful!!!! =P

RWD RB25DET into GTS4 can it be done? I will do all the work myself with a mate including the engine swap. proficient skills. doable?

Thanks HEAPS guys!

Take it ez

First let me say Hi all, this is my first post on the forums - I have been lurking for awhile reading up on info needed for my swap.

This is a question very similar to mine, I also have a partial answer for you my friend.

I found a guy selling an rb25 swapped into an s13 (I am from california so we don't have the luxury of decently priced skylines out here, I am very envious of you guys ) he didn't finish the project for some reason but it was almost complete. It just needed a turbo/cold & hot piping to get it running. I cannot figure out for the life of me why he wouldn't just finish it up and sell it for a nice price rather then selling it incomplete for so cheap; this caused several redflags to be raised in my mind. I soon found out that the motor is from a late model stagea (s2 non neo motor but neo wiring AWD auto) it has the grey ecu pins similar to the r34. This immediately caused me to get discouraged because we don't have stageas over here and thus the local aftermarker support is probably nil.

Now with the background out of the way here is the answer to your question:

He had the stagea rb25 maited to an rb20 transmission and I have read that these bolt right up, I am assuming you have an rb20 transmission already in your car so unless the rb25 motor mounts a bit forward or backward you should be able to retain everything from the transmission back, and if it does mount forward or back a bit then perhaps you could just modify your driveshaft, I am not sure exactly the best way to go about that but its worth looking into. this would solve the problem with excess weight due to the the AWD transmission only being used for RWD, and also you can save money by not having to buy an rwd rb25 transmission (assuming you are staying around the low 400 rwd hp range, the rb20 transmission should hold up).

Now here is my question:

What is the difference in tuneability between the awd stagea ECU and a 5 speed late model s2 rb25 (I guess that would be an R34 rb25 ecu). Can I use the auto ecu in my 5 speed swap and run it stock without a stand alone? are the pinouts on the auto late model stagea the same as an R34 rwd ecu? I am on a budget build so I am looking for the minimum that would get the car running, and I will move onto a stand alone sometime next year. Any recommendations for when I do move on to tune the car?

Any input is much appreciated, thanks!

Travis

Edited December 14, 2009 by JenkiZenki

[bozodos]

RB20DET gearbox won't hold 400hp for very long, I've seen them broken with half that power and an enthusiastic driver lol.

Not 100%, but you *should* be able to use the auto ECU in a manual no problems, and yes you can run a Stagea motor with an R34 ECU (have seen it done in reverse so I'm assuming that the opposite is true). There may be pinout diagrams somewhere on the site if you're lucky, try asking in the Stagea subforum

Dunno if anyone in the US tunes Nistune, but that's what I'd go for extra tuning capabilities or a Power FC

[JenkiZenki]

RB20DET gearbox won't hold 400hp for very long, I've seen them broken with half that power and an enthusiastic driver lol.

Not 100%, but you *should* be able to use the auto ECU in a manual no problems, and yes you can run a Stagea motor with an R34 ECU (have seen it done in reverse so I'm assuming that the opposite is true). There may be pinout diagrams somewhere on the site if you're lucky, try asking in the Stagea subforum

Dunno if anyone in the US tunes Nistune, but that's what I'd go for extra tuning capabilities or a Power FC

Very cool, Yea this guy had a gmax twin disk clutch installed in it I can imagine how easy the rb25 would destroy the rb20 transmission. Tuners here do use both nistune and power fc, I have looked into nistune and it seems like thats what I will use (I just noticed they have one that works with the stagea ecu, brilliant!). Thanks for the response, I am going to pick up the rb25 and try to get the car up and running with the stock ecu and then go with nistune. Keep an eye out for me in a month or so in the trouble shooting section of the forums when I finally start putting it all together .

Thanks again,

Travis

[winstonusmc]

RB20DET gearbox won't hold 400hp for very long, I've seen them broken with half that power and an enthusiastic driver lol.

I dont think there are "RB20" AWD gearboxes. They just stuck GTR transmissions in them. From the looks of the R32 GTS4 and the GTR, the main difference between the two driveline wise was the engine. This and the brakes and fenders was the only really big performance differences. Maybe some chassis stiffening too.

Now the R33/34 AWD models are little more different. They both came with the non-turbo rear subframe assembly, meaning no HICAS and 3x2 bolt axles. The R33 had four lug hubs (main reason I chose the R34) and both had the crappy GTS25 brakes. From the looks of my R34 setup up front, it looks more like the R33 GTR subframe as it uses the older steering rack.