Was He The Greatest?

[JVP]

werd.

[The Baron]

Hmm when Dermie ran through the pack he was considered a hero - when Ablett flattened Worsfold in the GF with no eyes for the ball that's also considered a great play......

Let's face it - in all sport you have to be a bastard if you truely want to win at the highest level.

So let's not kid ourselves and think that other F1 drivers are any more gentlemanly - there is too much money in it for that to occur. (Atleast not on the track ;-)

So when you strip that back then Schumacher was the greatest.

Yes he had the best team behind him for much of it - but he had to build most of it around him, and keep it, and keep his drive and make sure his co-drivers didn't beat him and then beat the opposition.

When I watched F1, I often saw Schumacher cruise for 90% of the race - well within his capacity - but in those laps around about the pit stops, or when he had to catch up because of a spin or other misfortune (such as the one last night) that's when you saw the best driver in F1, carving through the field, posting best laps, wrestling the car around a circuit. I'll miss those moments - they were sublime.

Ohh and in private life it seems he was a pretty good bloke - donated $5million to the Tsunami appeal last year for example.

[JVP]

When I watched F1, I often saw Schumacher cruise for 90% of the race - well within his capacity - but in those laps around about the pit stops, or when he had to catch up because of a spin or other misfortune (such as the one last night) that's when you saw the best driver in F1, carving through the field, posting best laps, wrestling the car around a circuit. I'll miss those moments - they were sublime

spot on mate

and when he passed kimi to get 4th spot

absolutley brilliant....

showed how much of a champion he is...

and will be.

[hrd-hr30]

There is a distinct difference between the "most successful" & "greatest".

When you consider the achievments of some others, for example:

Jacky Stewart:

Three World Championships.

Completely revolutionised the sport in terms of safety. Many GP drivers owe their lives to the deeply unfashionable stance that Stewart took in the early 70's.

Jack Brabham.

Three World championships, including one in a car bearing his own name and with an Australian built engine.

Pierless integrity.

Niki Lauda.

Three world championships.

Astonishing bravery in coming back from a terrible accident in Germany.

Astonishing integrity in withdrawing from the 76 Japanese GP on safety grounds when the championship was on the line & rejecting Ferraris offers to make excuses about the car breaking.

Damon Hill.

World Champion.

Led Williams in the wake of the trauma induced from Sennas death. Just like his old man did with Lotus after the demise of Jim Clark.

If you want to measure greatness, you may want to think about those blokes achievements before talking about Schumacher....

Also, like ctjet says. Take a look at the old in car footage of the turbo cars (there will be some on you tube somewhere). Those cars had to be DRIVEN....

talking about the greatest driver, those other "feel good" factors don't come into it for me. sure Stewart did great things for safety standards, but that doesn't make him a better driver.

And Brabham was from an era where engineer/drivers were fairly commonplace. Sure he was a very good engineer too, but again that doesn't make him a better driver. And there is simply no room for that to happen in today's motorsport.

Damon Hill one of the greats? Not in my book. He was very good - you don't win a drivers championship if you're not, but how on earth does he rank as one of the greats? You seriously wan tto measure Schuey up against Damon Hill?

[lingeringsoul]

greatest in my book ^^

[djr81]

talking about the greatest driver, those other "feel good" factors don't come into it for me. sure Stewart did great things for safety standards, but that doesn't make him a better driver.

And Brabham was from an era where engineer/drivers were fairly commonplace. Sure he was a very good engineer too, but again that doesn't make him a better driver. And there is simply no room for that to happen in today's motorsport.

Damon Hill one of the greats? Not in my book. He was very good - you don't win a drivers championship if you're not, but how on earth does he rank as one of the greats? You seriously wan tto measure Schuey up against Damon Hill?

You missed my point entirely. What I am saying is that (in my book) there is a difference between successful & great. Greatness requires more than just winning races or even championships. You have to include the other qualities the drivers bought to the sport.

By way of an example many people consider Stirling Moss to be one of the best ever GP drivers. He never won a world championship. For that matter Chris Amon, for all his skill never even won a race. Jacky Stewart contested all of 99 GP's. Gilles Villeneuve dragged his Ferrari around many tracks & posted results that were all about him & not about the car. Different era's, different expectations.

[hrd-hr30]

no I got your point. you don't like Schuey and you will define greatness in whatever way you want do the nice guys can get a look in, and MS doesn't. And you've got a list as long as your arm of people you feel were more deserving than him.

[ZENNON]

He was a good driver but I didn't like him

[AndyMac]

Is Schumacher the greatest ?

To date. Yes. Clearly.

I suggest some of you guys go and find the youtube videos outlining why he is so good.

Comparing driver vs drvier is extremely hard accross era's.

Example.

Fangio is respected as an altime great, yet, in his era it was common place too have the second driver come in and swap cars with the lead driver if his car was failing.

Copmpare Schumacher against his team mates and rivals of the last 10 years. Who has challenged him ?

No-One.

Hill, Hakkinen, Villeneuve, Alonso have all beaten him in superior cars. Thats fact.

Look at some of Schumachers results during a WDC Winning year and compare his results vs Barrichello and Irvine.

The world did miss out on Senna Vs Schumacher. No disrepect too Senna, but working out averages, Schumacher comes out on top.

[djr81]

no I got your point. you don't like Schuey and you will define greatness in whatever way you want do the nice guys can get a look in, and MS doesn't. And you've got a list as long as your arm of people you feel were more deserving than him.

Well I dunno. Some people maintain that you can't be both a good bloke & great at the same time. Some people say you can't be regarded as great if you aren't also a good bloke. Each to their own I guess. For my 10 cents I prefer my heroes to be from the old school - more your Alan Shearer type.

[hrd-hr30]

Well I dunno. Some people maintain that you can't be both a good bloke & great at the same time. Some people say you can't be regarded as great if you aren't also a good bloke. Each to their own I guess. For my 10 cents I prefer my heroes to be from the old school - more your Alan Shearer type.

you've obviously never heard any of MS' team-mates/members interveiwed. even many of his rivals have nothing but praise for him as a person. the good stories don't get near as much exposure. what about his donations to charity? one in particluar that was $10million!

[djr81]

Well I have & unsuprisingly they do say that. Pretty much the only time I can remember team members not saying things along those lines was when Frank Williams' was talking about Nigel Mansell. Or Mario Andretti about Mansell. Or Prost about Mansell. Or Senna about Prost. Or Prost about Senna. Or Mansell about Piquet. Or Piquet about Mansell. The more level the team mates the less well they tend to get on.

Many of his rivals have more than a little vitriol for him aswell.

[dezz]

What a great read. some seriosuly stupid posts in here by some people

first up my good mate ctjet. a true f1 fan in every sense of the word, and more so a true mclaren fan....who will settle for another team beating ferrari, rather than worry about how his own team is going, just because he hates ferrari....so i wont bother with your comments champ

Djr...the thread is about the greatest driver. not the nicest guy or who worried about safety the most. hrd-hr30 has already put your posts to rest so i wont bother

Last nights race was the perfect example of MS. Massa was demolishing the entire field with consistently superior lap times, by a long way. He was doing that in clean air. Yet MS who had nothing but bad luck was fighting his way through the field, going faster than Massa, setting fastest laps after taking on 20+ laps of fuel, showing you all how to pass in F1.

The man is a legend. He IS the greatest driver that F1 has seen, and plenty of people have already posted in here showing just why that is the case.

If he stayed next year he would almost certainly take the title, with Raikkonen second, and alonso crying in 3rd or worse.

What sets MS apart from every other driver in F1 is his un rivalled passion and determination. He has done everything there is to do in F1. Won everything, broken every record, set every record. Yet each and everytime he wins a race, to anyone that didnt follow F1, it would seem like he had just won his first race.

He had all the money anyone could ever hope for, and was racing purely for victory and love of the sport.

F1 will never be the same again.

Farewell MS. You are an inspiration, and a legend.

[lingeringsoul]

AMEN BROTHER!!!!!!!!!!!

this year had been the BEST F1 season I have ever seen........the climb back to the top.....fighting til the very end. That I will tell to the grandkids in the years to come.

[dangerous_daveo]

Statistics wise maybe.

But when he took damon hill out in the Aussie GP YEARS ago, when it was the last race of the season. That was it for me. All Damon need to beat Shumacher was finish in the points or something.

Then the 'spin' out more recently to try and get the advantage with quali. I dont like the man, I feel he is a VERY poor loser. My thoughs at least. Good driver, I dont know about the best, I think you need the whole package. I dont think the worlds best driver will ever see F1 dude to the money they need to have to get in to it. I think the money is also an issue, but thats another story.

And Senna was cut off short.

Edit, best F1 season ever were the old days pre aero and advertising. They had some on ABC 2 the other day. Best thing to watch.

Edited October 23, 2006 by dangerous_daveo

[kralster]

Formula one is the most boring motorsport to watch in the world. With maybe the exception of Nascar.

Nothing really happens you may get 1 or 2 brilliant over taking moves a race and thats it.

And the drivers are more concerned with money than anything else.

[lingeringsoul]

I find Nascar rather dull going around in circles all the time....not much in terms of skills

[DC_GTST]

Schumacher in respect to his skill and ability to push under some circumstances in which other's would give up to me is rated as one of the top drivers. In respect to some of his acts on the other hand I do disagree his wasn't the most best sportsman i've ever seen.

How many people can you say back when Benetton (and Schumacher himself) were very young to come from the back of the field to win?? And in the previous race, after a puncture and starting 10th the ability to finish fourth where other's would have cruised around made it more entertaining. I do agree that in natural ability Senna was better, but i do rate Schumacher. Oh...and for technical infringements, blame the team and the tech heads in the team who know what they are doing. As it's them who know the true technicalities.

Whether he'll remain one of the best will soon to be seen. Now for the next generation of drivers to come through And when people say about money and the likes, then how come Schumacher outclassed most of his driving partners and pushed, yet they had the same car? (i do disagree with team rules however).

[AndyMac]

The Damon Hill Incident can be debated for a long time. Was Schumacher totally in control of the car ? Did he even realize Hill was in that position after the impact with the wall.

I think it was more a racing incident.

The Villeneuve Incident - Schumacher has PUBLICALLY admitted that this is his greatest regret in racing.

I suppose most of us Schumacher fans will get 110% behind Webber now... I'll always love watching Webber, but there will be a huge hole in the sport for ages post-schumacher.

[thorpe84]

i wonder what car he drives