Power Fc - Apexi Boost Control Kit Or Not?

[Trav33]

I'm about to buy a Power FC engine management for my 33, and I also need a boost controller. My two options :

(1) Buy the Apexi Boost Control Kit for Power FC

(2) Buy a stand alone Boost Controller

Wondering what is the best way to go...

-Apexi Boost Control Kit = integrated system, only one controller

-Other Boost Controllers may have more features and easier to change boost profiles?

-Does having the boost control built into the ecu allow for better tuning?

Your opinions?.....

[paulr33]

as per:

http://paulr33.skylinesaustralia.com/docs/...powerfc-faq.htm

Considerations before use

27. How does the AVC-R compare to the PowerFC boost controller kit?

[paulr33]

also a good follow up read up would be:

How do I hook up the optional Boost Controller kit?

How do I configure the Optional Boost Controller Kit?

[Trav33]

Thanks Paul,

I had read your tutorial a couple weeks ago, but re-read the points you just noted.

From the sounds of it, the PowerFC with Boost Controller allows you to:

-setup 4 profiles to "quickly" select from (how quick? how many menu options do you have to go thru to change profiles, not as quick as a dedicated boost controller which is easier to navigate?)

-set maximum boost

-set duty cycle

I've heard of boost controllers being more powerful than this, and being able to adjust your max boost and duty cycle for different rev's, etc. I'm new to the world of turbo's, but surely a boost controller with more 'tuneability' would give better results?

[paulr33]

boost should be a set and forget device

theres no need to constantly fiddle and change crap

to change profiles takes about 3 seconds

MAIN MENU, SETTING, BOOST, CHOOSE PROFILE, PRESS PREV

thats it. theres no need to do that on a day to day basis.

run the most boost you can safely on your engine and components.

boost controllers are often given the complicated "badboy" concept but they aren't all the do is trick the wastegate in its simplest of form.

get on with driving the car, it doesnt have to be this difficult

[Trav33]

It'd still be cool and convenient to have that "Red Button", to change boost profiles from low (city driving) to high (say goodbye to that V8) in half a second.

[paulr33]

but why would u do that? why not just run the highest setting you can do safely all the time and use your foot to control how the car drives.

boost doesn't use fuel, you pushing the accelerator pedal does

and if you plan on running that little extra 2 or 3 psi over your safe level then its likely to go bang or just dial in more heat as the compressor is probably out of effiency

[markzog]

i have heard from reviews and tuner's that the addon unit is not that great and the blitx ebc's are the best go.

[Spook's_Skyline]

ive got powerfc boost controller

my tuner told me he doesnt like it (matty spry)

for that reason, i wouldnt but it again if i had the choice

[paulr33]

whats to not like about it? you dial in the boost and its done

i brought a hks evcIII long before i knew anything about the FC

and if i had the choice again i would have done the FC kit for sure

you also get to use boost in all the correction tables as well as have boost under MONITOR on the hand controller which is very handy.

[Bass Junky]

I would probably buy the Blitz Dual SBC next time around as it has the Anti Waste Gate creep funciton where as the PFC Boost kit does not.

My boost curve isn't as flat as I'd like it either.

BUT: having said that, I can still make 1 bar by 3000rpm with my set up so I can't really complain, and the flattening of hte curve up top isn't really going to make a huge amount of difference.

Maybe it's just the hunt for perfection........

[Sydneykid]

The big advantage I find with the PFC Boost Control kit is that it enables a number of correction tables to be activated via the Datalogit software. If you use a stand alone boost controller you will need another map sensor for the PFC to activate the tables.

Plus with the Datalogit you can use boost to trigger other items, for example intercooler spray.

cheers

[paulr33]

here here!!

[Gav]

The big advantage I find with the PFC Boost Control kit is that it enables a number of correction tables to be activated via the Datalogit software. If you use a stand alone boost controller you will need another map sensor for the PFC to activate the tables.

Plus with the Datalogit you can use boost to trigger other items, for example intercooler spray.

cheers

Unless you are using a D-Jetro where you have the pressure sensors already there.

[GeeTR]

Rice NAZI's at it again! Rofl - jokes

I bought a Blitz SBC iD III EBC, cus its got some massive solenoids, the twin unit is at least 6 times larger and heavier, I figure this gives the "zero gate creep" feature someone mentioned, plus better control at higher pressure levels.

Iv read stories bout killer boost spiking issues with other units…Greddy, Apexi etc.

I agree with Paul, i don’t want to be messing with sh1t, thats WHY i spent some $$ on a half decent EBC now.

If i change the ECU, im not in this position, trying to find something to control boost again, boost will always be controlled by the unit regardless of whats happening around it.

A few Hobbes switches should fix the "lost output" on the FC, you just loose any fancy look up table trigger the FC & Datalogit mighta had, im not sure.

SydneyKid: These "enabled look up tables" what do they control, and are they simply enabled by a MAP sensor being connected to the FC? ….

I got a bad feeling this threads guna make me feel like a ricer. Come on, whats some extra carbs in a day

Ta

- M

[paulr33]

the pfc faq in my sig tells you how to use a map sensor and the harness to just get the boost reading on the hand controller. once it has the reading the tables will work. so yes u can go access to those tables without the complete boost kit. the sensor is a denso map sensor (part no# in the faq) and the harness is another $20 part from any apexi supplier. the official apexi sensor is about $180

inj vs air temp vs boost

inj vs water temp vs boost

boost vs ign sf

[Sydneykid]

the pfc faq in my sig tells you how to use a map sensor and the harness to just get the boost reading on the hand controller. once it has the reading the tables will work. so yes u can go access to those tables without the complete boost kit. the sensor is a denso map sensor (part no# in the faq) and the harness is another $20 part from any apexi supplier. the official apexi sensor is about $180

inj vs air temp vs boost

inj vs water temp vs boost

boost vs ign sf

Beat me to it Paul, so all I can do is add for GeeTR's benefit. I am not sure how a hobbs switch is going to facilitate an injection correction table based on boost and air temp. Let alone boost and water temp. Or ignition correction. That's why I use the PFC BCK. Otherwise I have to buy ANOTHER Map sensor and plumb/wire it up. You can't simply parallel up the outputs from the stand alone EBC's MAP sensor, it upsets the voltages.

Interesting side note, I had a car the other day with really crappy boost control plus it was difficult to tune, more than just the boost variations. On investigation I found it had 4 map sensors all T’d into the fuel pressure regulator vacuum supply.

1. Standard map sensor for the dash

2. Aftermarket map sensor for the ECU, with a really long vacuum hose going into the cabin and plugged into the ECU itself

3. Aftermarket boost gauge map sensor

4. Aftermarket EBC map sensor also with a long vacuum hose to the firewall where the MAP sensor was mounted.

There was so much air in the vacuum system that it was buffering the signals. Hence the EBC was getting slow response signals from its MAP sensor and the boost fluctuated as a result. The poor old fuel pressure regulator had to wait for the vacuum changes to equalise in all those hoses before it could correct the fuel pressure, hence the difficulty in tuning the A/F ratios.

Tip, don’t T into the FPR vacuum feed for MAP sensor signals if you want stable fuel pressure.

cheers

Edited October 25, 2006 by Sydneykid

[GeeTR]

Niiiice

Thanks Paul- "FC Guru" -R33 !!!!

- M

[GeeTR]

Beat me to it Paul, so all I can do is add for GeeTR's benefit. I am not sure how a hobbs switch is going to facilitate an injection correction table based on boost and air temp. Let alone boost and water temp. Or ignition correction. That's why I use the PFC BCK. Otherwise I have to buy ANOTHER Map sensor and plumb/wire it up. You can't simply parallel up the outputs from the stand alone EBC's MAP sensor, it upsets the voltages.

Interesting side note, I had a car the other day with really crappy boost control plus it was difficult to tune, more than just the boost variations. On investigation I found it had 4 map sensors all T’d into the fuel pressure regulator vacuum supply.

1. Standard map sensor for the dash

2. Aftermarket map sensor for the ECU, with a really long vacuum hose going into the cabin and plugged into the ECU itself

3. Aftermarket boost gauge map sensor

4. Aftermarket EBC map sensor also with a long vacuum hose to the firewall where the MAP sensor was mounted.

There was so much air in the vacuum system that it was buffering the signals. Hence the EBC was getting slow response signals from its MAP sensor and the boost fluctuated as a result. The poor old fuel pressure regulator had to wait for the vacuum changes to equalise in all those hoses before it could correct the fuel pressure, hence the difficulty in tuning the A/F ratios.

Tip, don’t T into the FPR vacuum feed for MAP sensor signals if you want stable fuel pressure.

cheers

Hey SK,

Sorry, I meant using a hobbes to trigger a IC water sprayer.

Yah, I woulda thought stealing the output from the EBC’s MAP sensor woulda been fraught with danger, I would like to keep the smoke in.

Would never dare add volume to the tubing that goes between collector feed and FPR

Now I must learn how the extra tables Paul spoke of , work their way into tunning.

Cheers everyone

- M

[The Mafia]

I like this thread - reading some interesting things.