Suspension Setup For Drifting

[Nozila]

hey guys,

i would like to set up my suspension so that my car is able to slide easier without necessarily requiring too much power. ive read descriptions about what tension rods, camber arms etc etc do but would like to know what are the essentials required.

these are the parts in which i have seen avaliable so far for r33's

- adjustable suspension arms

- adjustable tension rods

- adjustable front lower arm bar brace

- alloy subframe bushes

- adjustable rear camber kit

- adjustable rear traction rod

- adjsutable rear toe rod

having listed the above parts, you can see how easily im confused as in what parts are classed as essential and what are basically 'braging' parts.

any suggested is much appreciated

edit - car is an r33 which currently has tanabe coilovers, hicas lock bar, locked diff and front/rear strut brace

Edited October 26, 2006 by Nozila

[MerlinTheHapyPig]

for a beginner, i recommend as minimum...

-Stiff coilovers

-locked diff or mechanical 1.5/2way

-adjustable tension rods (pillowball type) +8deg or so caster

-uras tie rod spacers (not sure if they are available for r33) for extra lock (speak to trent, sponsor URAS on nissansilvia.com)

depending on how low your car is, you may need rear camber adjustment to reduce rear tyre wear

if you want front camber adjustment, go with the whiteline bushes, that's the easiest (cheapest) way to adjust front camber on skylines.

Wheels, stock r33/s14 or r32 rims are ideal for beginners, 16x6.5

they will be easier to slide on than 17x9's for example. You can usually pick up a pair from wreckers for $50-100

the rest of the stuff on the list isn't necessary for beginners, though you might want to consider alloy subframe bushes if your subframe bushes are stuffed and the rear end is moving around a bit (ie axel tramp etc.). Strut braces are an idea, they are pretty cheap, fronts make a difference, rears aren't so vital.

Edited October 26, 2006 by MerlinTheHapyPig

[salad]

you shouldnt have any trouble sliding that with stock r33 power.

if you want the car more oversteery get a rear swaybar. there's someone selling a rear R33GTR swaybar for $40 on here, i know R32GTR rear swaybar is good upgrade for R32 GTS-t, assume the same for R33? might have to look into it

Edited October 26, 2006 by salad

[Nozila]

thats for the prompt replies.

merlin - i have very stiff coilovers in atm as well as locked diff (which was told basically acts as a 2way and from having it in since, it sure does act like one). i got the factory series 2 rear strut brace as well as front brace. added to that is a hicas lock bar i installed bout month ago. so having said that, all i need from the list i stated is

- adjustable tension rods (for extra lock i presume?)

salad - i was thinking about sway bars but forgot to mention in my original post - so gtr items are indeed thicker then gtst items. yes, i would have to look into that as well cause if thats the case then its cheap upgrade for sure.

[MerlinTheHapyPig]

yeah, basically. Learning with a locked diff and coilovers is the way to go, you will progress 3 x as fast than someone with a viscous and stock suspension.

The tension rods (aka castor rods) are to increase castor. The pillowball items and 8deg castor will give you better turn-in and more accurate and responsive steering.

The tie-rod spacers, are to give you more steering lock. They are little washers that are installed between the tie rod and the steering rack to increase the amount of travel in the rack. I have them for my r32 and they are worth their weight in gold. You may also want to consider aftermarket tie rods and tie rod ends, but it's not vital unless you start bending tie rods (common on s13s but skyline stuff is stronger so it doesn't happen as often).

You can get some of the other stuff on your list if you like, but once you have the basic setup i mentioned, gains will be minimal with alot of the other stuff (especially with stock power). Also if you're starting to drive on the track, buy a racing harness and a fire extinguisher.

Not alot of drifters in australia are using swaybar upgrades, it's been proven you can drift perfectly well with a stiff set of jap coilovers. But if you are street driving the car, some people will recommend softer spring rates and swaybars which basically achieve the same thing.

Edited October 26, 2006 by MerlinTheHapyPig

[salad]

heres the link to the swaybars

it is true that not many drifters are using them, but its a trend that needs to be changed. circuit racers have realised that swaybars are a very good upgrade (ask sydneykid) and outweigh completely controlling roll with just stiff springs.

i wouldnt say that the tie rod spacers are a necessity, but for the price of them, i dont see why not. i've been on stock lock for a year now, but ive just bought some spacers, cant wait to get em in and get out to the track!

[DJRIFT]

id just like to ask what setup people on here are running?

by that i mean what aligment settings are people useing?

i have just made a set of adjustable castor rods and have brought rear camber arms and would like to know what angles i should put on my wheels.

current setup has:

lowered springs

front and rear strut braces.

drift pineapples (made quite a bit of difference)

hicas lock bar (all pluming removed)

soon to be: waiting on fitment

castor rods

adjustable rear upper arms

adjustable upper traction rods

uras steering spacers (just brought off ebay)

hopefully:

heavy swey bars?

basicly i have acsess to a 4 wheel lazer aligner and i want to know how much camber castor and toe i should run for optimal sliding proformance.

i know some of this stuf should have been done in different orders but i get stuff as it comes up.

thanks for any help.

Edited October 26, 2006 by DJRIFT

[salad]

i currently run (and am happy with)

front:

castor: +9deg

camber: -3deg

toe: -2mm

rear:

camber: -1.5deg

toe: -2mm

i will be running -1.25deg rear camber when i get my bushes in, but for now 1.5 deg is fine too.

you said lowered springs, so i am assuming the generic lowering spring that offers a relatively small increase in spring rate from stock springs (compared to a race spring). if this is the case you WILL need swaybars to control the roll. whiteline is a cheap and effective option. and then you will have the adjustment to change handling balance to how you like (oversteer)

either get swaybars or stiff coilovers.

for that you may want to pop over and have a look at sydneykid's groupbuy

[MerlinTheHapyPig]

heres the link to the swaybars

it is true that not many drifters are using them, but its a trend that needs to be changed. circuit racers have realised that swaybars are a very good upgrade (ask sydneykid) and outweigh completely controlling roll with just stiff springs.

i wouldnt say that the tie rod spacers are a necessity, but for the price of them, i dont see why not. i've been on stock lock for a year now, but ive just bought some spacers, cant wait to get em in and get out to the track!

i'd like to try them, but i'm not convinced they will be better. Maybe better for general drivability under a variety of track or street conditions, but not necessarily drift.

In drift, you don't need to ride ripple strips to take the fastest line, so having rock-hard suspension often isn't a problem, also the coil over approach has added advantages such as camber adjustment (for s13's, not skylines unfortunantly), height adjustment, and damper adjustment which can be used to fine-tune softness more easily than changing swaybar settings. A friend just bought some rear whiteline adjustable swaybars for her s14 which has softer suspension (better than stock but not as hard as the usual jap coilover), so i'm interested to see how she goes with them.

As far as settings, this is what i'm using.

r32 gts-t (4-door) rb20det

Quantum RS Racing coilovers (8kgmm front, 8kgmm rear) (can't remember brand of springs)

D-Max pillowball castor rods

Locked Diff

Uras Tie Rod Spacers

GTRGeoff Hicas lock bar

Generic Alloy Subframe Collars

Generic Strut Braces (front and rear)

Generic Steering Shaft Spacer

Power Steering Cooler (magna auto trans cooler)

Air-con removed

Walbro gss-341 high pressure fuel pump

3.5inch turbo-back exhaust

HKS frount mount cooler

HKS pod air filter

Manual boost controller 0.9bar boost

stock turbo (it's on the way out....)

shift knob, handbrake button, handbrake lever, racing harness, fire extinguisher etc.

car is lower than stock, but still relatively legal height.

7 degrees positive castor

-1.6 degrees front camber (stock, with lowering)

2 mm total front toe out

0 mm total rear toe

as soon as i get back from queensland (moving there for 6 months for work), i'm going for the power upgrade which will involve rb25det, td06-20g, ext gate, injectors, powerfc etc.etc.etc.

Edited October 26, 2006 by MerlinTheHapyPig

[salad]

yeah, forgot to mention, having the car high is good aswell. the ideal heights of front:350mm and rear:340mm (30mm lower than stock) give much better handling than having the car on its arse (tyre up in the guard).

and getting rid of hicas is a must.

i prefer the thinking of setting up the car like a circuit car, possibly a bit more oversteer via harder rear swaybar, and then making the car oversteer myself.

if its agreed that circuit racers get more grip out of their cars, at least that style of suspension should be in the front, right?

i'm not saying that coilovers are not the way to go, i've got coilovers myself. im saying that all the roll shouldnt JUST be controlled with rediculous spring rates, like 12/10 with standard swaybars etc.

should be more sensible spring rates i.e. 7/5 or around there with big swaybars to control roll (opinion shared by a lot racers)

Edited October 26, 2006 by salad

[MerlinTheHapyPig]

there are heaps of s13's which are dumped on their ass and they perform well, but you just can't do that with skylines. Mine is still legal height, and don't have any problems.

I'm using 8/8 springs with stock swaybars, and body roll is not noticable at all. I'm sure it's bad for circuit, but that's not what the car is setup for.

There are a few drifters setting their car up for circuit, and there are merits. Alot of drifters set their cars up for grip, which means they can go faster before starting to go sideways. This is not really an ideal setup for beginners, but something you should strive toward. Sure when budget allows, swaybars will be an upgrade for me, but with the setup i've mentioned above i've had no problems to date.

[Nozila]

well when i had my sil80. it only had lowered springs/shocks, locked diff, twin plate clutch, fmic and front pipe back exhaust and it was so much easier to get the rear wheels (~167rwkw's) to lose traction not to mention allowing it to step out sideways. obviously this was due to its power to weight ratio unlike the r33.

with the 33, im not sure about the coilovers spring rates but it only allows height adjustment. no damper adjustments etc etc. the car isnt lowered that excessively so i dont think i need any rear camber adjustments atm so just front components from the advice that you guys have given.

cheers

[NickR33]

not concerning drift but think its on topic...

adj. swaybars are good too because it is easier to change the handling balance front to back than trying to swap out springs all the time...

example: motorkhana I have the rear bar on full hard and the front on medium as it allows the arse to swing round when doing handbrake turns etc... and the front doesn't push

for circuit I can just undo 2 bolts and back the stiffness of the rear bar off to whatever suits and if a I am super keen stiffen up the front if I am still getting oversteer

any more than those adjustments and some simple tire pressure stuff and I lose motorvation... you would have to be super experienced to start messing with spring/damper settings or have heaps of track time up your sleeve

[salad]

yep, everyone looks for damping adjustment when theyre buying coilovers but does anyone know exactly what to do when they're getting understeer/oversteer in the 3 sections of a corner?

if you dont know exactly what to do, theyre probly a waste of time

[DJRIFT]

yes my lowered springs are just nicely lower and the slightly stiffer. they are pedders springs as they look after me very very well. the front is definatly stif enough but the back is a bit loose and sits like 10mm to high.

im planing on buying maching shocks. maybe some of the bilstiens off SK as the white line springs would be pretty much the same as my pedders ones.

i also agree that most of the people that have coilovers with damper and height adjustment dont know what to do with it. most people i know never toutch it.

the ride hight is a big thing to as skylines have very short suspension travel so lowering them makes them worse. i was going to buy a skyline that had 10 and 8 jic coilovers in it but it was so low that it would have been riding on the bumpstops.

most older race orentated people that i know that have brought imports have raised them as soon as they arived to suspension brands specs or changed the spring rates to somethong slightly softer.

thanks for the specs you guys have listed

[MerlinTheHapyPig]

once you've been sliding for a while you get to know how the damper settings work. I must admit, i change my damper settings constantly to make allowances for

-different tyres (rim size, tyre width/profile, grippyness - all vary when using second hand tyres to drift on)

-track conditions (temperature, raining?, track surface)

-track layout (ie mostly sweeping corners, tight corners, track camber, uphill/downhill)

for me, they make a big difference to the amount of front and rear grip, and oversteer and understeer under different conditions. (ie if it's raining i usually soften up the rear to stop spinning, and also soften the front to stop understeering due to lack of front end grip). You can also play with the tyre pressures if you don't have damper adjustment. They make minor differences, but it is very noticable. I'm no expert, but i know what settings work for me under various circumstances!