Engine Building Advice Please....

[Ender]

Hi all,

I am seeing if it would be possible for me to build a 2.2 rb20det myself....

I have a good mechanical knowledge but no actual engine building experience...

I am hoping people who have built their own engines might be able to help me figure if this is possible for me to do or if I am 'dreamin mate'.

Could anyone who has built their own engines share any experiences, Also after advice as to where I might learn how...ie books you found useful, videos...websites etc which you thought helped you....

Thanks heaps,

Russ

[DCIEVE]

it should be done in a controlled temp environment caus jap motors are very tolerance sensitive

[Ender]

So this is the best we can do....noone has had a go at building their own engines...Noone has looked into it and found a good book or website....

Ok...when I have finished I will post some information so others can learn from my crappy mistakes...

Russ

Russ

[HOLD64]

..I had never built an engine before I did my first one! haha

Just go for it!

I'm not an expert on the RB20 but have/am building a couple of RB engines. It isnt rocket science.

Grab a good service manual if you can find one, make sure you have some guys with knowledge you can harass when you get stuck or are unsure on anything - and a mate who works as Mechanic or Machinist etc is also very handy when it comes to borrowing that tool/s which you only need once or twice and is way too expensive to buy!!

http://board.performanceforums.com is a good place to ask for info/help if you get stuck.

Good luck!

[Ender]

Thanks heaps, I was a fitter/machinist in a previous life so I figure it cant be that hard to do....its just knowing where to be careful and where it doesn't matter so much that is harder...

Thanks...

Russ

[hungry6]

well just be cautious if u end up with some nuts and bolts left over, and use mineral oils to lube up ur oils pump or she take too long to prime = dead new motor

[Sydneykid]

Hi russ, my suggestions would be to get a copy of the translated R32 engine manual (www.skylinesdownunder.com) and study the RB20 rebuild section. There are a number of specialist tools you will need. otherwise it is all about taking your time, following the instructions and doing it logically and methodically. You will also need access to a machine shop with , honing decking and balancing equipment.

Good luck.

[Ender]

I anticipate I will send the block and head away to be machined...

My brother used to work for 00 motorsport and now for Modena so I have access to a bit of knowledge but would like to do the build myself...

Cheers,

Russ

[Sydneykid]

Hi russcb007, I know what you mean, I am enjoying building up an RB30/RB26 currently, normally the team engine builder does this sort of stuff. But since it's my personal engine, I thought I would do it all myself, very rewarding.

Good luck with yours.

[Bonkers]

Just chuck in one of these

http://www.justjap.com/engines.htm

[Ender]

I already have one of these in my car...I want a special, good, one of a kind 10000rpm beast.....

Cheers,

Russ

[hungry6]

10000rpm? u better start saving up for mega dollars rods-pistonsand springs and then some more.

[Sydneykid]

I was going to write another post, something about sticking to a budget, costs getting out of hand, poor driveability and stuff like that. But it's probably just a waste of time.

O hang it, I'll do it any way.............

Hi Russ, the airflow necessary to get an RB engine to 10,000 rpm means its power output will be around 900 bhp. It's not gunna do anything under 6,500 rpm, so driving it on the road is a dream (nightmare actually). The drive train components (clutch, gearbox, diff drive shafts etc.) are constantly going to be breaking. The engine will need a $3K rebuild every 2,500 kilometres.

Bottom line, even if you do all the assembly work yourself, there is not going to any change out of $30K.

Hope that adds to the fun.

[Ender]

Probably getting a bit carried away with the revs...sorry....in fact I dont even know why I said that...must be after the night shifts...

What I am really after is an engine with a nice fat torque curve. An RB30 with RB26 heads would suit me perfectly but I dont want to have to engineer or replace looms and computers etc...

I do anticipate forged pistons...maybe wiseco...forged rods...a bit of light head work...some NA cams or better if I can afford it when I get to there, lightened flywheel...new clutch...

I think this should make a strong engine....Are there any particular ways I can get my fat torque curve, I understand turbo choice makes a big difference...but is there anything else I can do in the actual build??

Thanks for the input...much appreciated...

Russ

What I am really after is a

[Sydneykid]

Hi Russ, usual stuff, keep the compression ratio up, as close to 9 to 1 as you can get. Select the turbo/turbos for the maximum power you want with the sweetspot on the compressor flow map just to the left of the max you need. Make sure that it/they make some boost at 1/3 of maximum revs ie; if reving to 7,500 rpm max, must make some boost by 2500 rpm. Adjustable camshaft pulleys and equal length exhaust manifold/manifolds help. A set of 256 degree camshafts with high lift will also help, if you have the budget. Make sure it is tuned for good power spread not just a single max.

Hope that helps.

[Ender]

I am not fussed how much max power it makes...I am interested in a car I can really drive hard out of corners etc, as much good mid range as I can get...I know its only a 2.2 so this is more difficult but...

How much more $$ would it be to do a rb30 with 26 heads etc than what I am proposing...How have you found parts and info about this hybrid, are they easy enough or do you have to do a fair amount of dicking around to get it to work??

Thanks for the info...very much appreciated...

Russ

[Sydneykid]

Hi russ, if you want up to 500 bhp you simply bolt the RB26 top end onto the RB30 bottom end. Pick a turbo/turbos and you're away. I would always recommend that the bottom end will need a freshen up (rings, hone, gaskets, seals, bearings etc) and a good balance. You can pick up a reasonable Series 2 N/A RB30 for a coupla hundred and to that add the normal rebuild costs. RB26 top ends are not that easy to find and you could easily spead $3K to $4K on that alone. RB25DE top end is a much cheaper alternative for a lot less money (<$1K).

It's when you want more than 500 bhp that the costs start to escalate. Forged pistons $2K and strong bolts $0.5K if you want 600 bhp, forged rods another $2K if you want 650 bhp plus camshafts $2K etc. Its very easy to get carried away.

Hope that helps some more.

[Ender]

Do you know what sort of torque the rb30 with rb25de head would have, just ball park? I imagine it would be light years above the rb20det...

Is there much diff between 25det head or de head?

Is there much weight diff between rb30 and rb20...I gather they are the same block..?

I gather I would need a different loom etc too,

Just thinking that it may work out more power for your money with the rb30 even if you have to swap a loom etc...Would you have to run an aftermarket computer...I gather you would....

one thing I liked about the 32 was that you could just program the ecu ...well for what I want anyway.

Sorry for all the questions, Its just hard to find this info sometimes, If it is all in different threads please tell me, I have done some searches and found some but not alll the info.

Your time is appreciated

[hungry6]

The main differences between the rb25 and 26 head is that, the 26 head has 2 valve sizes, smaller for exhaust and larger ones for intake , and the exhaust valve on the 26 is larger than the intake ones on the 25 and also one is hydraulic and the other one is shim. That all i know about the head . also the 26 used squish zone technologies where as all the other rb heads misses out.

[Ender]

Alright.....

Is the following correct?

I can use NA Rb30 bottom end

rb30et crank and rods

RB26 pistons

rb25det or de head (do the exhaust and inlet manifold bolt patterns for both these match??)

and if I get the rb25de head off an r32 then the loom and ecu will fit in my r32 easily....

Or I can use an RB26 head if I have the cash...

I understand there is machining of the block etc and I would get it all xrayed and freshened up...but is this the general idea??

Thankyou,

Russ