HKS Turbo's vs Garrett Turbo's...

[Merli]

Uh guys, you might have noticed he has an RB20 or 25 powered car. Odds are on the fact he is using a single turbo setup, which probably has a T3 flange. All of the HKS 25xx series with the T3 flange DO NOT have the custom HKS compressor cover, but use a Garrett cover with the center machined out and an aluminium insert held in by 4 hex screws.  

The only HKS markings on the T3 range are on the exhaust cover, and on the metal tag on the center catridge.

Standard actuators work fine with those turbos too, so no dire need to run a HKS actuator.  

Just my 2 cents, no need to jump on the bandwagon and drill someone over this...

Even HKS 2530s I have seen for S15s have the HKS embossed compressor cover... Do they use a T3 flange?

Why would a different flange (and therefore different exhaust housing) have any bearing on what compressor cover they use?

I have never seen an HKS turbo with an aluminum insert like that before. That looks like a second hand turbo... What proof is there that that's an HKS 2530 and not a modified/high flowed turbo with an HKS exhaust housing? Or an HKS 2530 that got loose, spun out the compressor housing which was then rebuilt with a machined out Garrett compressor housing?

If that's a second hand turbo, and not an HKS 2530 you have bought from HKS, I don't think that's a very good authority on what is and what isn't an HKS turbo

If it *IS* a new HKS 2530, then I don't know what to say because that aluminum insert is something I have NEVER EVER seen from HKS before in my life, and not pictured in ANY HKS goodsmasters, Option mags or HyperREVs and I certainly have never seen one in real life (not that I've seen thousands myself) :confused:

[Merli]

On the theme of trying a custom Garrett over an off the shelf HKS I'm trying "one" of these...

This is for use on a R33GTR with 2.8L conversion

Dont know what it will produce yet. Goes on dyno for mapping next week.

Awesome looking turbo there Harry

What horsepower rating is it equivalent to in HKS terms? It would be great if you could have a dyno comparison to show spool up characteristics, and top end curve against another 2.8L engine with HKS turbo of equivalent power rating!!

Good luck, I'm sure it'll be a monster to drive

[Roy]

Even HKS 2530s I have seen for  S15s have the HKS embossed compressor cover... Do they use a T3 flange?

SR20s like GTRs use a T25 flange.

Why would a different flange (and therefore different exhaust housing) have any bearing on what compressor cover they use?

Perhaps its because if you buy a complete turbo upgrade kit from HKS they are a bolt on proposition, and in the case of GTSt vs SR20/GTRs, they use different plumbing arrangments from the AFM to turbo inlet. So to be a bolt on proposition they use an inlet that is compatible with the std RB20/25 inlet piping resulting in the machined snout.

I dont know for sure about markings, but the HKS 2530 i looked at for my car did have the machined snout bolted to the compressor housing, and was part of the HKS kit with water/oil lines, elbows gaskets etc etc. to plumb up to std Nissan parts.

I dont think generic pictures used in catalogues are all that fool proof either.

Have a look at this turbo off the BD4s website( HKS 25040R), i cant se too may HKS marking on the compressor cover.

[DoughBoy]

Even HKS 2530s I have seen for S15s have the HKS embossed compressor cover... Do they use a T3 flange?

SR20s have a T25 flange. Ah la RB26.

Why would a different flange (and therefore different exhaust housing) have any bearing on what compressor cover they use?

The single bolt-ons for RB20/25's have larger compressor/turbine housings. Maybe they need to flow more considering they are a larger motor?

I have never seen an HKS turbo with an aluminum insert like that before. That looks like a second hand turbo... What proof is there that that's an HKS 2530 and not a modified/high flowed turbo with an HKS exhaust housing? Or an HKS 2530 that got loose, spun out the compressor housing which was then rebuilt with a machined out Garrett compressor housing?

If that's a second hand turbo, and not an HKS 2530 you have bought from HKS, I don't think that's a very good authority on what is and what isn't an HKS turbo

Yes it is a second hand turbo. Yes I have had brand new turbos in the 25xx range bought from a HKS distributor in Japan...and they are the same. JNR32R from these forums bought one - if you are still in doubt ask him. Rick Shaw also bought one for his personal car. MRK25T is another from this forum.

If it *IS* a new HKS 2530, then I don't know what to say because that aluminum insert is something I have NEVER EVER seen from HKS before in my life, and not pictured in ANY HKS goodsmasters, Option mags or HyperREVs and I certainly have never seen one in real life (not that I've seen thousands myself) :confused:

Ask Croydon next time you are there... but I'm not sure if they have dealt with budget single turbos like these. I've got some articles from HyperREVs with pics of these, I'll scan them in later for your amusement. As another point, the new GT-SS and GT-RS just use Garrett compressor + turbine covers. Yes I've had some come through here, I even showed you a set of GT-SS. Are you going to claim they are not HKS turbos now?

I think the bottom line is that because they are not illustrated in the HKS catalogue or on the website and the fact that few people are using them leads to posts like this...

[DoughBoy]

Heh while I was typing that essay you beat me to it Roy

[confuzion]

When i was looking for a t3 flange hks 2530 they all had the same front cover as Doughboys.

But ive also noticed that the 2530's etc made really recently have the 2 bolt intake thing on the front covers. I dont know whether this is fact or whether pictures got mixed up etc but yeah..

It is quite an iffy subject and got me quite confused also

[Merli]

Very interesting indeed...

Roy's point about bolt-on kits having to have an inlet that is compatible with the std RB20/25 inlet piping resulting in the machined snout is a good one... Makes sense I suppose.

I know, I bought a set of GT-SS and they're sitting right here next to me. There are no HKS markings on it at all, but this discussion was about the 25xx series, not the GT-SS/GT-RS.

[PRO-30L]

what about ITS (innovative turbos systems)?? there being sold here now

[crack]

Is there that big a difference that HKS is worth $2000+ more?

Has anyone had a Garrett Turbo on, such as a GT3040, and then on the same car swapped it for a HKS GT3040? What was the difference in spool time, power delivery and max power...

I just can't see how there is such a big difference in price! Is it just the name you are paying for?

Any comments would be sweet, especially from those with experience with the two

Cheers,

Andrew

HKS reach the same power level as garretts but at a higher boost level. (Typical japanese)

[Steve]

HKS reach the same power level as garretts but at a higher boost level. (Typical japanese)

Where is your evidence? I would love to see it. I have seen Garrett 'equivelant' turbos that could not hold a candle to HKS. The 2530 is a perfect example, 3040 is another.

And what the hell is the point of remanufacturing a turbo, or redesigning it to achieve what you have outlined.

I really do doubt you have ever had experience with a HKS turbo and a garrett equivelant. It seems to me that statements like yours are brandished around by people that dont know what they are talking about, and dont want to spend a few hundred dollars extra to get a good jap performance turbo, its certainly not 2000 more, unless you buy from the wrong place.

But please, do post up the dynos of these garrett turbos making equivelant power to HKS ones at lower boost, you WILL find that a standard garrett turbo will NOT make anywhere near the same power as a HKS turbo as a rule. They will make similar power at lower boost, but where a HKS turbo comes into its own is

A. it will keep producing power well beyond (revs) where a garrett equivelant will start running out of puff, and

B. it (HKS) will produce alot more power once you start heading above 1.2bar.

The above is generally true also of other big name Jap turbos too - or do you really believe that a garden variety garrett turbo is going to be better than a turbo with millions of dollars in R and D behind it.

Enlighten us all please. And do lets see some dynos to back up what you are saying.

Also, 'typical japanese' - typical japanese take something, then refine it to the point of being almost a work of art. Also, lets not forget who make garrett.

[BIGBLOCKR31COUPE]

Also, lets not forget who make garrett.

Aren't you forgetting that Garrett make the HKS turbos.

From my experience I have found the HKS equivalent to be a laggier turbo but when the boost rises and higher flow is required the HKS turbo will now be in the meat of its efficiency curve while the standard Garrett equivalent will be past its optimum and starting to become inefficient. The garrett will keep producing boost but with a higher shaft speed and higher temperatures.

The use of the names 2530 etc by HKS is more an indication of external size and flanges than internal parts. Knowing how the Japanese love 'plug & play' or 'bolt-on' options we can see why HKS would use the names of Garrett turbos that can be directly replaced by their own.

[Guest INASNT]

Steve

just to stir u up, none of australias 5 fastest 1/4 GTR's are using HKS turbos

[Clint32]

yes they are, John Munro had twin 2835 on his OS 3litre

[cameron]

Steve

just to stir u up, none of australias 5 fastest 1/4 GTR's are using HKS turbos

LOL good point

[cameron]

Croyden racing R32 uses a T88

[Whoneedstherapy]

also the Heat treatments R32 runs a HKS T51R SPL

[owned]

thought garett only made components for HKS. If thats the case then i dont suppose they'd know the combination of intake/exhaust housing, bush/ball bearing, water/oil lines and various other bits and bobs.

[benm]

Interesting thread.... :wassup:

[Freebaggin]

Steve, where is your evidence? Why don't you detail the specific examples you mention and provide all the data and I assume the setups were all the same? Tell me about the 3040 example.

Without thorough back to back studies of each we just can't assuem that there is a huge difference between the two.

Why can't you just leave it at the fact that HKS turbos are good and Garrett turbos are good and that HKS turbos are NOT massively better...jeez, what a hard head.

[Steve]

Steve, where is your evidence?  Why don't you detail the specific examples you mention and provide all the data and I assume the setups were all the same?  Tell me about the 3040 example.

Without thorough back to back studies of each we just can't assuem that there is a huge difference between the two.  

Why can't you just leave it at the fact that HKS turbos are good and Garrett turbos are good and that HKS turbos are NOT massively better...jeez, what a hard head.

I see where you are coming from now, what was I thinking, you have convinced me - HKS and garrett are the same!

Why cant I accept it? because I have seen no evidence to that effect. So you believe I should accept it because someone tells me I should - WTF??? I only go off the experience of others that I trust, and have relevant experience, as well as my own experience. Not from staggering intellectual arguements such as the one you posted above.

I dont just believe what someone tells me because they say this is so. I like some evidence first, if that is ok with you? Probably not, probably me just being a hard head.

Example, garrett 3040, with 0.63 turbine housing, 1 bar boost above 4000rpm, hks 3037 with 0.61 housing, 1 bar boost around 3000rpm. 3040 had peak power around 6400rpm, 3037 just kept pulling to redline without a sign of slowing. Very similar setups.

So why cant you accept that HKS turbos arent heaps better than garrett, why is it you insist they are similar? or are you just being a hard head.