Defect Loophole

[mr_crust]

After reading another thread and doing a fair bit of research i thought i would compile it for all members.

I can prove that its LEGAL to cut under that battery tray. (no more bullshit defects)

The act states if anything is done to alter the chassis it breaks the law, as your vehicle has been structually altered. Under the battery tray on an r33 there is whats known as a 'skirt' that is the 1mm thick peice of s/s, now if you refer to my above photo you will notice that this is connect to the chassis ( more then double the thickness of the skirt)

Obviously if you cut into the chassis you will no doubt weaken the structure of your vehicle, thats the reason its an instant defect.

There is no law in place in Victoria stating its illegal to cut into the skirt, its only a lack of knowledge that innocent people get pulled over and take an officers advice that what they have done is illegal, as police are respected members of the community and should be doing things correctly, not to line their pockets.

This is the act, the whole thing is relevant , but i highlighted the exact part i believe, as a skirt is not classified as a major body part and its not part of the chassis

and if i'm not wrong doesnt the GTR's pipe work go through here?

Take a look at the photo and then take of your front rim so you can see what i mean, you will realise its actually legal to cut out that part of the skirt. Anything under that red line CANNOT be cut, anything above is allowed, with that in mind make sure the hole also looks clean cut and doesn't look like a dog took a bite out of it.

Edited November 9, 2006 by R31Nismoid

[Savage Bliss]

Wicked nice one... I always wondered that. All pipework, intercooler pipework, had a hole cut through mine in the same position. Just wondering where you got that info from, a link would be great...

[foznice]

I can't read the act, can you fix it?

[jasont82]

yes i would also like to know where you got that info from. took my car to vic roads yesterday with this issue and the vehicle inspector had to phone up a few people to see if it was ok.

he came back and said we will accept a notice from your engineer saying that it is safe but you dont need a full engineers cert.

even with that document how can you prove the structual integrity of the vehicle hasnt been altered? you would have to test crash you car to prove it.

My engineer is welding a plate around the hole to strenghthen it so that he can sign it off knowing that it is as strong if not stronger than it was before i cut the hole. therefore the structual integrity hasnt been changed.

also it depends if you have airbags or not. if you cut a hole and have a crash and the air bag fails, what do you do then? they obviously did extensive testing on the car when designing it crashing it into walls and stuff to make sure the air bag would go off in such circumstances.

it might not be part of the chassis but its still in the crumple zone.

i mean hey if you can use that document to get out of a canary, great. but chances are the cops arnt gonna know if the structual integrity has changed and will refer you to an expert (engineer) to find out.

hope it works for you guys but i can drive a little easier having actual documentation for my specific car.

[jasont82]

ill print that out and take to my engineer when i pick my car up at 3 and see what he says about it.

[R31Nismoid]

Any non-factory cut must be reinforced.

If its there from factory, no problem. If its an additional cut = no

ps. tried to fix the pic, but i cant. stupid photobucket crap

[jasont82]

gtr would have been crash tested with the hole gtst hasnt. can anyone tell me how i can cut and copy that document trying to but cant and wont let me save it either.

[Savage Bliss]

Here tis'... if you can't read it.

Edited November 9, 2006 by Savage Bliss

[mr_crust]

here are a few links :

RWC:

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/vrne/vrne5n...A256FD300241C38

What you can and can't do:

www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/vrpdf/rdsafe/vsi31.pdf

As for a lot of the other info such as what is part of the chassis and whats not and what can be modified, that has come from multiple engineers i know and one of them from car manufactor

also it depends if you have airbags or not. if you cut a hole and have a crash and the air bag fails, what do you do then? they obviously did extensive testing on the car when designing it crashing it into walls and stuff to make sure the air bag would go off in such circumstances.

how does cutting a 3" hole in the skirt effect that airbags?

Edited November 9, 2006 by mr_crust

[ABuSD]

This is awesome news, gonna get my mechanic to check mine out next time im there!

Im pretty sure mine looks like a dog took a bite outta it!

[SteveL]

it might not be part of the chassis but its still in the crumple zone.

This is the critical point. These cars are of _unitary_ construction, which means that any structure other than the bolt-on panels (and some minor welded on brackets) contributes to the stuctural integrity of the chassis. The OP seems to be assuming that the rails themselves form 'the chassis' forward of the firewall, but in fact all of the inner guards and radiator support panel contribute to chassis strength and, as you say, the crumple zone. Modification (cutting) of any of those parts other than specified/allowed by the OEM _might_ weaken the chassis in that area.....which is the reason that modifications to any of those parts requires some sort of engineering approval.

[SteveL]

As for a lot of the other info such as what is part of the chassis and whats not and what can be modified, that has come from multiple engineers i know and one of them from car manufactor

Unless these people were/are part of the engineering design team for that particular car or are a recognised VASS (in which case get them to sign it off), they aren't really in a position to judge. I know a lot of engineers that work for Holden and Ford plus a few that do conversions involving chassis mods and I'm confident they'd agree with what I've posted (before anyone asks.....no, I'm not giving out names).

how does cutting a 3" hole in the skirt effect that airbags?

Already covered.....it has the _potential_ to affect the structural integrity of the chassis forward of the firewall. Whether it will is up to a VASS to decide.

Anyway, I wish you luck (really) and am happy to be proved wrong.

[DivHunter]

This is the critical point. These cars are of _unitary_ construction, which means that any structure other than the bolt-on panels (and some minor welded on brackets) contributes to the stuctural integrity of the chassis. The OP seems to be assuming that the rails themselves form 'the chassis' forward of the firewall, but in fact all of the inner guards and radiator support panel contribute to chassis strength and, as you say, the crumple zone. Modification (cutting) of any of those parts other than specified/allowed by the OEM _might_ weaken the chassis in that area.....which is the reason that modifications to any of those parts requires some sort of engineering approval.

Wouldn't that be another hole right there if the GT-R has the piping running through the same section as has been suggested then it is a factory available 'modification' and perfectly legal.

[mr_crust]

Unless these people were/are part of the engineering design team for that particular car or are a recognised VASS (in which case get them to sign it off), they aren't really in a position to judge. I know a lot of engineers that work for Holden and Ford plus a few that do conversions involving chassis mods and I'm confident they'd agree with what I've posted (before anyone asks.....no, I'm not giving out names).

They are in a position to judge, even though they cannot sign off on the mods, they have the same qualifications if not more, they work on cars day in day out, unlike some monkey who works for the VASS who just signs off on it and collects a nice big payment.

The GTR has the sam chassis build as a GTS-T , its only got bigger guards and a different block, but the chassis is the same, meaning the cooler in the GTR uses a hole in the skirt, making this mod on a gts-t legal.

And as the act states 'cannot modify the chassis' it mentions nothing about the skirt being cut.

I would be intrested to talk to someone who knows the ADR's properly and can give me a definate answer, as most ppl on forums only know from word of mouth , and many police guess whats legal and whats not, and im sure many members can attest to that

Edited November 9, 2006 by mr_crust

[jasont82]

As for a lot of the other info such as what is part of the chassis and whats not and what can be modified, that has come from multiple engineers i know and one of them from car manufactor

if these engineers you know can vouch for what your saying and put their name on the line and sign it off, then problem solved. if not then i dont think its gonna help. the only people that could decide wheather its altered the integrity of the structure is an engineer and if hes not willing to sign it off then it doesnt mean shit.

if he can and will then perhaps post up some details so people can get it in writting before there get canaried.

i really hope he can. i just paid $300 for my engineer to sign mine off. DOH!

[mr_crust]

well the vass will look at your one, charge 300 bux and sign it off as safe, correct??? now why do you need someones signiture to make ur car safe, if they do nothing , or the most make a small bracket , and they can claim a small bracket will make it safe...what a load of BS.

im gonna do some leg work and find out more on this and try and get a certified engineer to give it the all clear & sign it , then post it up if i get it so fellow skyline owners can save a few headaches

[jasont82]

you would be doing everyone a big favour if you did. pity we didnt stumble on this last week. $300 bucks for a braket and a piece of paper.

i know what your saying i doubt i even needed the bracket the pipe going through is 3mm thick anyway that should crumple pretty good. But as far as i know this was the only way to clear my defect.

[Savage Bliss]

im gonna do some leg work and find out more on this and try and get a certified engineer to give it the all clear & sign it , then post it up if i get it so fellow skyline owners can save a few headaches

Nice one...

[mr_crust]

you would be doing everyone a big favour if you did. pity we didnt stumble on this last week. $300 bucks for a braket and a piece of paper.

i know what your saying i doubt i even needed the bracket the pipe going through is 3mm thick anyway that should crumple pretty good. But as far as i know this was the only way to clear my defect.

if you had to clear the defect, it had to be approved , but hopefully in the future i can find out exactly what can be done and save everyone a couple of bucks

i will update as i get teh info

[jasont82]

this is the bracket he made up. its not even welded in just three bolts. but oh well ive got the paper work at least. cant be harrased about it ever again.