Factory Ecu Re-mapping Discussion

[TSL]

TSL :- May I ask what software that is? I don't thinkI have seen it before.

I do ecu remaps professionaly, including rb, sr, ca, vg etc....

My setup is somewhat custom and unfortunately is not currently available to the public.

The reason for this is that development is ongoing and the software is not even at a beta stage yet, bugs abound!

Basicly it combines realtime map editing with full consult feedback and logging.

As soon as it is more stable it will be available.

You can get the same funtionality using a combination of a good consult program and live edit or nre.

Cheers - Jeff

[rob82]

So have you found any additional maps to the standard ROM EDITOR software? Have seen lots of tuning software just copy one another and not add any thing new. You can tune the base fuel map as a desired AFR map you just need to change the MAF transfer table to suit. If you do tune the base fuel MAP as a VE table how do you individually tune the 256 cells without an emulator - I couldn't think of anything worse.

Biggest difference between PFC and standard ECU is the MAF table is twice the size.

[TSL]

Yes i have found some extra tables. I might share some later.

I can edit my maps in real-time of course, using an emulator of sorts.

It's true what you say about the fuel table rob82. It is in fact not a VE table but rarely is the maf/inj calibration acurate enough to allow for the kind of linear maps that some people expect to see. So you either tune the vq/maf table or tune the fuel table to suit. Sometimes its just easier to do the corrections in the fuel map is what i'm trying to say.

Main point i wanted to make is not to rely on theoretical or calculated a/f. Just tune your fuel table by the wideband lambda readings.

An example of different rb20 fuel maps... each engine had a similar setup and made similar power (200rwkw) yet each map is different to achieve a linear fuel reading around 12:1 a/f. All using stock injectors and maf.

Edited November 19, 2006 by TSL

[AzzurrA]

*subscribes*

[TSL]

Some table locations for HCR32 (256k) ecu.....

Address (in hex), map size, description

$7d00, 16x16, High Octane Fuel Map

$7500, 16x16, Low Octane Fuel Map

$7af0, 16x1, TP (load) Scale for Fuel Maps

$7b00, 16x1, RPM Scale for Fuel Maps

$7400, 16x16, High Octane Ign Timing Map

$7c00, 16x16, Low Octane Ign Timing Map

$7b10, 16x1, TP (load) Scale for Timing Maps

$7b20, 16x1, RPM Scale for Timing Maps

$7f2b, 1x1 (16bit), K value (inj calibration)

$7f88, 1x1, Inj Null Time

$7f91, 1x1, Closed-loop activation temp

$7a70, 1x64 (16bit), VQ (maf) table voltage vs airflow

$7e90, 16x1, Inj pulsewidth max vs rpm

$7e80, 16x1, Inj pulsewidth min vs rpm

$7960, 16x1, Airflow limit vs rpm (boost cut)

$7fb4, 1x1, Rev limit

$7a0a, 1x1, Speed limit 1

$7a0b, 1x1, Speed limit 2

$7fa5, 1x1, Speed limit 3

$7e00, 16x1, After start enrich vs temp

$7e10, 16x1, After start idle enrich vs temp

$7e20, 16x1, First time start inj vs temp

$7eb0, 16x1, Enrich vs coolant temp

$7e30, 16x1, Decel fuel cut map

$7e40, 16x1, Decel fuel recover map

$7b30, 32x1, Coolant conversion table (temp vs voltage)

$7b60, 16x1, Coil dwell duty

$7e50, 16x1, Cranking advance vs temp

$7ea0, 16x1, Idle (neutral) ignition timing

$7e60, 16x1, Idle rpm control

$3980, 16x1, Idle stabilisation control

Cheers

[Cubes]

What are these address locations needed for when you have a program such as liveedit?

[TSL]

Yeah not much good for live edit as it uses custom address files which can not be edited. Shame really because it means you are stuck with the limited address files provide with live edit.

For rom editor you can just edit the address files in notepad.

[MerlinTheHapyPig]

consult feedback will save you a lot of time burning chips by allowing you to target problems more efficiently. Lets you know axactly what map points you are hitting.

No it doesn't

I've yet to see consult software which can provide a reliable map trace, this is because the car's ecu uses correction factors based on various other sensors.

[CEF11E]

Here is a few address files for rom editor

#

# NISSAN HCR32 RB20DET MAP ADDRESS (E)

#

# Variable,Start-Address,X,Y,Map size,value,Map-name

#UNIT NAME

TYPE_UNIT,HCR32(RB20DET) type-M,*,*,*

#HIGH/LOW octane Fuel map.

HIGH_FUEL,&H7D00,16,16,256,1,High octane Fuel map

REG_FUEL,&H7500,16,16,256,1,Low octane Fuel map

#HIGH/LOW octane Ignition time map.

HIGH_FIRE,&H7400,16,16,256,1,High octane Ignition time

REG_FIRE,&H7C00,16,16,256,1,Low octane Ignition time

#K required number

K_DATA,&H7F2B,2,1,2,1,K required number

#Void blast-off time

IGN_TIME,&H7F88,1,1,1,1,Void blast-off time

#Feedback control

FB_SWITCH,&H7F91,1,1,1,1,Feedback control

#VQ map

VQ_MAP,&H7A70,16,1,128,1,VQ map

#Fuel/Ignition time TP scale

TP_SCALE_FUEL,&H7AF0,16,1,16,1,TP scale (Fuel)

TP_SCALE_FIRE,&H7B10,16,1,16,1,TP scale (Ignition time)

#Fuel/Ignition time RPM scale

RPM_SCALE_FUEL,&H7B00,16,1,16,50,RPM scale (Fuel)

RPM_SCALE_FIRE,&H7B20,16,1,16,50,RPM scale (Ignition time)

#TTP MAX/MIN

TTP_MAX,&H7E90,16,1,16,1,TTP MAX

TTP_MIN,&H7E80,16,1,16,1,TTP MIN

#TP Limit

AF_LIMIT,&H7960,16,1,16,1,TP Limit

#Rev.Limit

REV1_LIMIT,&H7FB4,1,1,1,50,Rev. Limit 1

#Speed Limit

SPEED1_LIMIT,&H7A0A,2,1,1,2,Speed Limit 1

SPEED2_LIMIT,&H7A0B,2,1,1,2,Speed Limit 2

SPEED3_LIMIT,&H7FA5,2,1,1,2,Speed Limit 3

#Add.map 1

ADD_MAP1,&H7940,16,2,32,1,Idol getting a stabilization control (MAX)

#Add.map 2

ADD_MAP2,&H7980,16,2,32,1,Idol getting a stabilization control

#

#

# NISSAN R31 RB30E MAP ADDRESS

# First half model. 128Kbit ROM type

#

# Variable,Start-Address,X,Y,Map size,value,Map-name

#UNIT NAME

TYPE_UNIT,R31(RB30E) R31,*,*,*

#HIGH/LOW octane Fuel map.

HIGH_FUEL,&H3D00,16,16,256,1,High octane Fuel map

REG_FUEL,&H3D00,16,16,256,1,Low octane Fuel map

#HIGH/LOW octane Ignition time map.

HIGH_FIRE,&H3C00,16,16,256,1,High octane Ignition time

REG_FIRE,&H3C00,16,16,256,1,Low octane Ignition time

#K required number

K_DATA,&H3F2B,2,1,2,1,K required number

#Void blast-off time

IGN_TIME,&H3F3E,1,1,1,1,Void blast-off time

#Feedback control

FB_SWITCH,&H3F5B,1,1,1,1,Feedback control

#VQ map

VQ_MAP,&H2D80,16,1,128,1,VQ map

#Fuel/Ignition time TP scale

TP_SCALE_FUEL,&H2F00,16,1,16,1,TP scale (Fuel)

TP_SCALE_FIRE,&H2F2F,16,1,16,1,TP scale (Ignition time)

#Fuel/Ignition time RPM scale

RPM_SCALE_FUEL,&H2F00,16,1,16,50,RPM scale (Fuel)

RPM_SCALE_FIRE,&H2F30,16,1,16,50,RPM scale (Ignition time)

#TTP MAX/MIN

TTP_MAX,&H3E90,16,1,16,1,TTP MAX

TTP_MIN,&H3E80,16,1,16,1,TTP MIN

#Acceleration increase volume

ADD_FUEL,&H3200,16,1,16,1,Acceleration increase volume

#Rev.Limit

REV1_LIMIT,&H3FB4,1,1,1,50,Rev. Limit 1

#Speed Limit

SPEED1_LIMIT,&H3FA5,2,1,1,2,Speed Limit 1

#TP Limit

AF_LIMIT,&H3E70,16,1,16,1,TP LIMIT

#Add.map 1

ADD_MAP1,&H3100,16,16,256,1,HIGH GEAR FUEL MAP

#Add.map 2

ADD_MAP2,&H3200,16,16,256,1,HIGH GEAR KNOCK FUEL MAP

#Add.map 3

ADD_MAP3,&H3F60,16,1,16,1,IDLE TIMING MAP

#Add.map 4

ADD_MAP4,&H3E50,16,1,16,1,TIMING DURING ENGINE START

#Add.map 5

ADD_MAP5,&H3EC0,16,1,16,1,TIMING ADVANCE IRT WATER TEMPERATURE

#Add.map 6

ADD_MAP6,&H3E20,16,2,32,1,AFR ENRICHMENT TABLE IRT WATER TEMPERATURE

#Add.map 7

ADD_MAP7,&H3B30,16,2,32,1,TEMPERATURE SENSOR CONVERSION TABLE

#

#

# NISSAN ECR33 RB25DET MAP ADDRESS (E)

#

# Variable,Start-Address,X,Y,Map size,value,Map-name

#UNIT NAME

TYPE_UNIT,ECR33(RB25DET),*,*,*

#HIGH/LOW octane Fuel map.

HIGH_FUEL,&H7400,16,16,256,1,High octane Fuel map

REG_FUEL,&H7D00,16,16,256,1,Low octane Fuel map

#HIGH/LOW octane Ignition time map.

HIGH_FIRE,&H7800,16,16,256,1,High octane Ignition time

REG_FIRE,&H7C00,16,16,256,1,Low octane Ignition time

#K required number

K_DATA,&H7F0A,2,1,2,1,K required number

#Void blast-off time

IGN_TIME,&H7F88,1,1,1,1,Void blast-off time

#Feedback control

FB_SWITCH,&H7F91,1,1,1,1,Feedback control

#VQ map

VQ_MAP,&H7A70,16,1,128,1,VQ map

#Fuel/Ignition time TP scale

TP_SCALE_FUEL,&H7AF0,16,1,16,1,TP scale (Fuel)

TP_SCALE_FIRE,&H7B10,16,1,16,1,TP scale (Ignition time)

#Fuel/Ignition time RPM scale

RPM_SCALE_FUEL,&H7B00,16,1,16,50,RPM scale (Fuel)

RPM_SCALE_FIRE,&H7B20,16,1,16,50,RPM scale (Ignition time)

#TTP MAX/MIN

TTP_MAX,&H7E90,16,1,16,1,TTP MAX

TTP_MIN,&H7E80,16,1,16,1,TTP MIN

#TP Limit

AF_LIMIT,&H7960,16,1,16,1,TP Limit

#Acceleration increase volume

#ADD_FUEL,&HE200,16,1,16,1,Acceleration increase volume

#Rev.Limit

REV1_LIMIT,&H7FB4,1,1,1,50,Rev. Limit 1

#Speed Limit

SPEED1_LIMIT,&H7FA5,2,1,1,2,Speed Limit 1

#Add.map 1

ADD_MAP1,&H7B30,16,2,32,1,Water tempe. compensation

#Add.map 2

ADD_MAP2,&H7510,9,1,9,1,Knock delays limit

#Add.map 3

ADD_MAP3,&H7940,16,2,32,1,Idol Ignition/Knock delays limit

#Add.map 4

ADD_MAP4,&H7980,16,2,32,1,Idol stabilization control

#Add.map 5

ADD_MAP5,&H79E3,9,1,9,1,Knock delays limit

#Add.map 6

ADD_MAP6,&H79F5,2,1,2,1,Variable valve timing-on/OFF Rev.(x50rpm)

#Add.map 7

ADD_MAP7,&H7B50,16,1,16,1,Ignition duty voltage

#Add.map 8

ADD_MAP8,&H7B60,16,1,16,1,Ignition duty Rev.

Just copy and paste everything from each list and paste in notepad and save it as RBwhatever.adr

[TSL]

No it doesn't

Yes it does.

I've yet to see consult software which can provide a reliable map trace, this is because the car's ecu uses correction factors based on various other sensors.

It's a shame you haven't had the chance to experience any decent consult software. Look i already put up a fuel map with a trace on it on the previous page.

The ecu does make corrections based on various sensor input.... none of which change the map points that it reads from.

Regardless, if you know what you are doing and are using the correct combination of hardware and software you will be fully aware of what the ecu is doing.

Merlin i don't have a problem with you playing devils advocate here. It's potentialy a good way to clear up some mis-conceptions about factory ecu tuning. It would however be nice if you could refrain from making statements unless you are 100% sure that what you are saying is correct. It is quite likely that there have been a lot of developments recently in this area that you are unaware of.

Cheers - Jeff

Edited November 20, 2006 by TSL

[CEF11E]

Jeff can you point out some decent software to use for map tracing?

Edited November 21, 2006 by CEF11E

[dontfeelcold]

is it possible to add extra features? (anti-lag, fuel-cut/ignition cut, boost conntrol etc etc)

[TSL]

is it possible to add extra features? (anti-lag, fuel-cut/ignition cut, boost conntrol etc etc)

You are really limited to using the standard features available in the stock ecu.

There are some people who have experimented with adding custom features but it often involves some modifying of the ecu hardware or code.

I feel that a remapped stock ecu is suited for low to medium spec engines. Something that is internaly stock with bolt-on mods.

Remapping the stock computer is a cheap and effective solution for :

removing speed limiter

raising/removing air-flow (boost) limiter

raising/lowering rev limiter

running different size injectors

running different maf

optimising fuel and ignition timing maps

For a high spec track or race setup it would be only natural to choose a high spec aftermarket computer. Horses for courses.

[TSL]

Lesson 2 Global Settings.....

***********************

Now for the global tables, the best part is that most of these are set perfectly from the factory. In most situations you will never need to change most of them.

1. Speed Limiter : Easy one, just set it to what you want up to 512kph!

2. Rev Limiter : Another easy one, just don't be tempted to set it too high!

3. TTP Max (airflow limiter) : RPM based table, the values are related to airflow. A lot of tuners fill this with 255 dec to remove the cut completely. A better way is to use values around 200 dec and test that it still cuts at 2-3 psi higher than the max boost you wish to run. If a wastegate line ever splits or blows off then this could save your engine.

4. Closed loop switch : This value is related to coolant temperature. When you first start your car and when it is below a certain temperature it will not use the o2 sensor feedback. This value is the temperature above which the closed-loop fuel operation will happen. This rarely needs to be changed, unless you are experiencing cold running problems that cannot be fixed any other way.

5. Inj Null time : The time it takes to open and close for each different brand and type of injector is slightly different. You only need to change this when using non-standard injectors. There are some rule of thumb guides around which are not very helpful as they usually calculate approx null time based on injector flow. Most injector manufacturers provide this data if you search for it or just experiment for yourself. A useful hint for using gtr injectors in an rb20 is to look at the null value from the gtr ecu.

6. K value (inj calibration) : Again you only need to change this if you are using non-standard injectors or maf. Most of the formulae available on the net and even the calculations made by Live Edit are only approximate. Often they are out by 10-20%, always make your final adjustments in conjunction with a wideband a/f meter. Make sure you are testing in an open-loop part of the fuel map or simply turn off the o2 feedback while you fine tune the K-value.

7. TP Max (inj pulsewidth max limit) : RPM based table, the values are related to injector pulsewidth. You shouldnt need to change this for stock inj. Use common sense when doing this, there is no point putting 255 values in as the pulsewidth can never be that big at high rpm anyway. For larger injectors you will want to reduce some of the low rpm vales to prevent the chance of flooding. Changes should be based on the change in injector size, ie : 30% larger injectors will require a 30% shorter pulsewidth to flow the same as stock, so you can reduce the values in this table by 30% approx.

8. TP Min (inj pulsewidth min limit) : RPM based table, the values are related to injector pulsewidth. Again you can leave this for stock inj. It is important however to set this table correctly for larger injectors. No matter if you set the K value perfectly, if the TP Min values are too high you will always run rich on idle/light throttle regardless of o2 feedback. Once again make changes to these values based on the change in injector size as a %.

9. Decel Fuel Cut RPM : Temperature based table, values are related to rpm. If the idle switch is on (throttle shut) and the engine speed is above that set in this table then fuel cut is activated. You could tweak this for ultimate economy or remove it if you wanted to.

10. Decel Fuel Cut Recover RPM : Temperature based table, values are related to rpm. If the decel fuel cut has been activated then this table sets the speed at which injection starts again. Obviously this speed needs to be lower than the initial cut speed to work correctly. Tweak it if you like.

11. Idle Speed : Temp based table. Idle rpm vs temp, pretty much speaks for itself. Raise the idle rpm for lumpy cams etc...

12. Idle Timing : Temp based table. Idle ign timing vs temp. Change this if you need to for cams, low idle vac etc.

13. Temp Conversion : Voltage based. Temp degrees vs voltage. You should only need to change this if you are using a non standard coolant temp sensor.

14. Coil Dwell Duty : RPM based. Increase this for bigger spark charge. Will burn stock coils out very quickly, only good for aftermarket coils. Even then you probably shouldn't mess with it.

15. Temp Enrich : Temp based table. Overall enrichment vs coolant temp. Most of the time this is fine but you can fine tune it to solve cold running issues. If your injectors are huge and the engine setup varies wildy from standard this will need some tweaking.

16. Cranking Timing Advance : Temp based table. Ignition timing vs coolant temp, tweak this for big cam, low vac, hard to start engines etc.

More later.....

Edited November 21, 2006 by TSL

[RedDrifter]

TSL I would like to add a few things with regards to the K value and the Void values that I have learned from countless hrs of messing with my cars ecu.

Firstly the best way to set up the new injectors is to set the thoretical afr's to say 12:1 at all points of the map (after you have made the adjustments to the K value). Then as you have mentioned you do need a afr meter.

Go for a run and see how close the afrs are to the theoretical afr's especially up in the revs ,in the motors power band. If you are a little rich or a little lean (bad) just increase/decrease the k value one increment for every 0.1 afr you need to adjust. Once you have the top end afr's as close to the theroetical afr's then nows the time to adjsut the idle mixeture (via the void) If you idle is leaner or richer then all you will need to do is increase ofr dercrease the void value. and again for every 0.1 afr you are out you will need to adjust the number by 1.

Once this is all done then you are ready for the full remapping.

As you said before the theretical afrs will not be exactly the same as the real world ratios but I can tell ya they are very close most of the time and by this it allows you to start with a very strong base map. Cheers mate

Edited November 21, 2006 by RedDrifter

[Andi]

Jeff could you tell me how much I'd be looking at to have my car remapped, drive in drive out. It would be for the exact situation you described: hiflow turbo, bigger injectors, z32 afm, turbo back exhaust, fmic, fpr, boost controller etc.

EDIT: Not a problem mate, will give you a call in a few moments.

Edited November 21, 2006 by OnGsTa

[TSL]

Jeff could you tell me how much I'd be looking at to have my car remapped, drive in drive out. It would be for the exact situation you described: hiflow turbo, bigger injectors, z32 afm, turbo back exhaust, fmic, fpr, boost controller etc.

OnGsTa can you slip me a PM mate.

For quotes can people please PM, Email or Phone me just to help keep this thread on topic and help me keep track of things!

For reference i am located in adelaide however interstate tuning sessions can be arranged for groups of at least 3 (three) cars.

Cheers -Jeff

[TSL]

RedDrifter that is some very good advice!

Your procedure for fine-tuning the K-value and Null time is excellent.

With some maf and injector combinations you won't always get 0.1 afr change for 1 numeric change, and certainly r31, r34 etc use completely different values. It is a good rule of thumb however.

I think the main emphasis should be on using a good quality, fast wideband.

Do you or CEF11E have any more tips for people working without emulators. With realtime tuning i've become lazy.

Edited November 21, 2006 by TSL

[RedDrifter]

RedDrifter that is some very good advice!

Your procedure for fine-tuning the K-value and Null time is excellent.

With some maf and injector combinations you won't always get 0.1 afr change for 1 numeric change, and certainly r31, r34 etc use completely different values. It is a good rule of thumb however.

I think the main emphasis should be on using a good quality, fast wideband.

Do you or CEF11E have any more tips for people working without emulators. With realtime tuning i've become lazy.

Yeah I should mention that the stock ecu is very good at detecting knock.

I also use the Data scan consult software as many people on this foroum do I would think and quite by accident I discovered that if the ecu detects knock to a level that it sees too high the ecu will spit out a code 34

"knock code". Though at the time I thought that the knock sensors had a fault. I have tested this a few time since on both my r32 on th new motor (new knock sensors to) and my brother r32. And this is very good tool to help out with setting the ignition maps as the ecu will pick knock well before you can here it. Once I get my ignition maps set up and I am happy I will always copy that map to the knock ignition map and then drop all the values by 2 degrees. If the motor pings it will switch to the knock map and hence run 2 degrees less timming across the board. This is the opposite to how the ecu's do it from standard as they keep the igition maps the same but just dump more fuel on the knock fuel map. This works ok but if there is a fueling problem (aka busted fuel pump) then more njector pulse width aint gonna help much.

Also my brothers ecu is the MEC-R126 and my ecu is the MEC-R212 B. The map tracing via data scan wont work on the earlier version yet it does on the later version. Now the funny thing I tryed was to flash up the MEC-R126 ecu with the later version MEC-R212B and this allowed me to use the map tracing. Even though the hardware wasn't meant for the later version is seems to work fine ( My Brother drove around for 6 months no probs or faults).

I will post up the stock ecu bin file for my r32 (MEC-R212B) tonight If can for anyone who would like to try/use this.

Thinks thats about it for now. I'll get my web site up and running this weekend hopefully to take a few more of these things to a more advanced level.

Having an emulator don't make you lazy mate ,Just Smart.

Would have made things alot eazier for me I can tell ya.

Edited November 21, 2006 by RedDrifter

[RedDrifter]

This file is from a stock 1992 R32 GTS-T Type-M

(RB20DET)

I believe this was the last revision of the RB20 ecu.

Also Note that this is a 256 kb file and wont work in the 128 kb Cefieros.

Rb20DET_1992_R32_Rev_Mec_R212B.zip