Rb25det Neo Conversion Into Fairmont

[Shayde]

I have a feeling the conversion won't be that hard, due to the MASSIVE ammount of aftermarket gear available for imports, the only thing i really have to worry about will be the engine and gearbox mounting, tailshaft and electrics.

Sounds like you got everything sussed. The only hard parts are.. Engine and gearbox mounting, tailshaft and electrics.. Which pretty much makes up.. EVERYTHING! So it shouldn't be hard, but you should worry about everything because they are the hard bits!

Sorry to take the piss, but do you actually know what kind of work you're in for? It's a cool idea, but stupidly expensive and sounds like you haven't really got it all sussed after all.

[ossie_21]

You could turbo the engine but like you said it's already had a hard life & it would probably get pushed over the edge, so then it's either a rebuild or new engine. If finance isn't a problem & you are prepared for a tough project then go for it, but here's a left of centre idea:

With a similar amount with what a conversion like this will cost, buy a ready-made Japanese import that is made & balanced for what you are after??

My Idea.............................Centre.........................................

.....Right

[PHATR32]

u should dump the ol 4l, forget the rb25, go for a dohc 4l out a xr6t.

u cant go wrong

[fordman351]

G'day guys, a few valid points there, ill pay them!

But i will disagree on some, the EL series Fairmont only weighs 1540kg, which really isn't that much more than a R33, it's the BA's that are the lardies at 1800kg plus and not to mention the GTP at 1950kg's! .

I have looked into turbo kits for the Ford 4.0L, but for a half descent setup that is going to perform with any gusto will be around the $13000-14000 mark and that isn't including a driveline that will cope with the power.

Manual gearboxes (as lovely as they are) are out, i dont really want to have to pull the dash out to install a new pedal box, and installing a clutch master cylinder will be a horror job.

I do realise the RB's are a rev happy engine, that doesnt bother me if i have to push a bit more to get the car moving, but really, is that going to be an issue?

Slotting in a BA turbo engine isn't a simple affair either (or cheap, try $9000 for engine only!), considering they dont have distributors (like mine does), it means that i am going to have to purchase an aftermarket ECU anyway to run the 6 coilpacks, knock sensors and twin VCT. A hole will have to be cut into the bonnet for head clearance (BA 6 cylinder heads are MASSIVE compared to the SOHC 12 valve).

Shayde: maybe it was the way i worded that sentence, but yes you are correct, engine/gearbox mounting and electrics are all there really is to putting an engine in, i never said i had it all sussed, far from it. I don't know much about RB Nissan engines, hence why i came here to find out about them from more knowlegable people. I know it will be a bit of work, but again, i cant see how it is going to be so expensive...

Getting rid of the Fairmont and getting into a Skyline is NOT an option, after all the time, money and effort put into it to get it from the run-down state it started off as.

Thanks for the helpful info guys, it has given me some food for thought, but im still convinced it wont be as complex as some poeple think.

Thanks again! Cheers - Matty Ps: thanks Alpha for the grapics!

Edited November 22, 2006 by fordman351

[32vspecII]

just drop the v8 windsor in

[madbung]

Too much weight not enough torque doesnt make for a good ride.

Sounds a real nightmare of an effort for not a great result.

When I read your post first thing I thought of was that total miss match of the mid 70's from holden/mazda I can't remember the name of the car (cosmos or something else spacey). Essentially it was a hj-hz sedan over flowing with tastless trim and powered by a 12a or 13b rotary. What a cracking sports sedan that wasnt...sheeet it wasnt even economical!!

Enough flashbacks from me, personally I don't think it's a good idea.. although interesting and I doubt you'll be satisfied with the results.

As suggested by others the 4ltr ford force fed would be very hard to beat for ease of setup, build cost and performance.

[b0neR]

How bout building an RB30 for it, use a RB25 head if you want some RB25 in it.

[fr0st]

13k for a turbo kit?!?!

Have you got a link to that? Must be gold plated or something

I dout very much it would cost 13k. A turbo would cost about 2k, allow 1.5k for custom manifolds and dump/font pipe. New injectors and fuel pump + remap. If you needed too you could lower the compression a little with a thicker head gasket. Even if you bought a second hand ford engine like your current one it still wouldn't add up to 13k.

You also have to think about getting it engineered. You can't put an old engine into a new car due to emissions laws. Getting a post 1997 RB25DET is going to be a bitch of a task not too mention expensive.

There is also the man hours involved in welding up new mounts for pretty much everything. If you can weld yourself then its not so much of an issue, but paying someone else your gonna get stung. Auto electrics are the same, you'll need the entire RB25 loom and the fairmont loom in the car at the same time... its gonna get messy

Still, if you wanna do it, I look forward to seeing the results

[djr81]

G'day guys, a few valid points there, ill pay them!

But i will disagree on some, the EL series Fairmont only weighs 1540kg, which really isn't that much more than a R33, it's the BA's that are the lardies at 1800kg plus and not to mention the GTP at 1950kg's! .

I have looked into turbo kits for the Ford 4.0L, but for a half descent setup that is going to perform with any gusto will be around the $13000-14000 mark and that isn't including a driveline that will cope with the power.

$14k. WTF? Why do you need a kit? Surely a second hand/reconned XR6 turbo plus exhaust manifold, PWR Intercooler plus some custom induction pipe work will get the job done for far less than that. Then it is just the fuel system, boost control & ECU, ie the normal stuff you need anyway.

Manual gearboxes (as lovely as they are) are out, i dont really want to have to pull the dash out to install a new pedal box, and installing a clutch master cylinder will be a horror job.

Installing a manual trannie on the AU Falcons is actually dead easy. No dash out needed. All the manual pedal etc bolts straight up. I would imagine the EL is fairly similar.

If you bypass the ECU & keep the auto what are you going to use to run the transmission & to retard the ignition on gear changes etc. Using a manual trannie makes tuning the egine ECU a whole heap easier.

Slotting in a BA turbo engine isn't a simple affair either (or cheap, try $9000 for engine only!), considering they dont have distributors (like mine does), it means that i am going to have to purchase an aftermarket ECU anyway to run the 6 coilpacks, knock sensors and twin VCT. A hole will have to be cut into the bonnet for head clearance (BA 6 cylinder heads are MASSIVE compared to the SOHC 12 valve).

The BA never had twin independent VCT, or atleast they are not independent from each other. Only the BF models are. In any case the function is not used a particularly large amount of the time. Also how much resolution are you going to get in your tune? Enough to take advantage of that feature? From memory the AU 4.0L motor in the XR6's could be had with VCT.

[32vspecII]

Installing a manual trannie on the AU Falcons is actually dead easy. No dash out needed. All the manual pedal etc bolts straight up. I would imagine the EL is fairly similar.

If you bypass the ECU & keep the auto what are you going to use to run the transmission & to retard the ignition on gear changes etc. Using a manual trannie makes tuning the egine ECU a whole heap easier.

this is going to be a problem , im not even sure if the NEO triptronic is going to work AT ALL without ECU let alone having proper gear changes and retard. I know they dont work with manual powerfc's .

if your serious about going down this path i would think about the 2jz non turbo . there are great results just slapping a turbo onto it (they are super tough engines) , they are very cheap , their intake/exhaust is the same sides as the ford and their auto gearboxes are much easier to work with with aftermarket ecus

[play r 32]

When I read your post first thing I thought of was that total miss match of the mid 70's from holden/mazda I can't remember the name of the car (cosmos or something else spacey). Essentially it was a hj-hz sedan over flowing with tastless trim and powered by a 12a or 13b rotary. What a cracking sports sedan that wasnt...sheeet it wasnt even economical!!

Those things were powered by a 20b rotary turbo! strange car.

[djr81]

Those things were powered by a 20b rotary turbo! strange car.

You are getting confused. The Roadpacer was a HJ Holden sold by Mazda (in Japan) with a 12A in it.

The Cosmo was something entirely different & it was only the 1990 - 1995 model that ever had a 20B in it.

[teejay]

Rather then bagging you or putting you off your idea, I reckon go for it.

Few simple mods will have your car making close to 260-290 rwhp on the stock turbo, alot more then the 130 rwhp it makes now.

Wont be a GTR killer, but will be a awesome sleeper.

[djr81]

I don't think anyone is bagging him or his idea just trying to make clear that conversions require a great deal of detail work.

There was a twin turbo conversion written up in Zoom magazine ages ago (Workhorse wakeup from memory was the title) in which they bolted on a pair of turbos from a VG30 to an old 4.0litre motor from an XG ute. The results were very good indeed.

The point I was trying to make is that bolting a turbo onto the Ford motor is much easier, much cheaper & that the torque put out by a 4.0 litre turbo will eat just about anything, traction issues aside.

Edited November 23, 2006 by djr81

[PHATR32]

then you could drop the money you save into a decent trasnmission.

are the autos from the v8's any better than waht u have?

[fordman351]

Okay, where do i start?

djr31: You are correct! It was the BF that came with the Dual VCT, my mistake. The AU HP 6's did come with VCT, but it was only for the exhaust side of things and didn't respond well to modifications.

PHATR32: The V8 BTR auto's are no different to the 6's except for a longer input shaft, the rest of the gearbox is EXACTLY the same and cannot be manualised and does not have a seperate ECU. Stock gearbox and engine management is all combined into the one main ECU.

frOst: $13000 is to turbo the 4.0L completely and reliably, (i may have overstated the price for the actual turbo kit) it's $5000 for this (stage 4): http://www.snortperformance.com/ford_falco..._turbo_kits.htm

$5000

Then theres the aftermarket ECU (EMS Stinger quoted from GURU racing in Bunbury) at $2500 wired up, tuned and dyno'd.

$5000+$2500

Theres the fact that my engine wont be able to take the new forces from being boosted, so a freshen-up/rebuild (rods, rings, pistons, gaskets etc) and a hone and machine is another say....$3000.

$5000+$2500+$3000

Fuel system including injectors, regulator, fuel pump, surge tank and whatnot (it's late i cant be bothered thinking ), say another $1500.

$5000+$2500+$3000+$1500

IC piping is not included in the kit, so aluminium piping to be fab'd will be (i guess) around the $800-$900 mark.

$5000+$2500+$3000+$1500+$900

A few tweaks to the gearbox (which has already been rebuilt with kevlar faced bands and clutches, recalibrated S5 solenoid) and a large transmission cooler, allow $500.

$5000+$2500+$3000+$1500+$900+$500 (whoops! Theres the magic 13k!)

Then when something goes bang, like either the tailshaft or diff, theres another $600 for a second hand 3.45 LSD.

Starting to sound very expensive.....

Edited November 23, 2006 by fordman351

[teejay]

Do the 25 conversion, then come see me. If its neat enough im sure i'd find you some space in psc.

[fr0st]

Even the stage 3 kit has a 500hp turbo... thats like 300rwkw. A little excessive don't you think? lol

To get a RB25 reliably to the same power level your talking a full forged rebuild, even then its going to be one laggy bitch (fun but laggy ). Your probably looking at 10k atleast to get a skyline to that power level reliably.

Look at something smaller for your current engine, if you had a 200rwkw rb25 and a 200rwkw falcon engine, I'm sure the falcon engine would not only be nicer to drive but would probably win in a straight line due to its low down torque.

I'm not a ford person but it's probably worth asking the question on a ford forum. You could probably make 200rwkw on a stock bottom end with under 6 psi quite easily. I've seen a commodore do the same thing using a >200,000km engine.

[Acer]

if you going to go ahead with it, prehaps buying a bare rb25 block would be a good starting point (1 that needs a rebuild). this way its a lot lighter then the whole engine, and will make it easier to acess where the mounts will have to bolt up and will be able to line up the gearbox etc as well.

Prob think its a waste of money buying that then the whole engine, but i would think this would help solve alot of problems.

Just a thought since ur pretty certain of going ahead with it.

[gazza750]

speak to cactus on these forums he has done an rb20det into a hq that would give you some idea of the hassles he had with his conversion